mercer

I've edited straight from the CF cards. 

9 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

so no converting?

Yup it's some kind of filing system you download so then you right click your mlv folder, scroll down and choose MLVFS, assign them to a different folder and open them in Resolve. Then somehow or another it tricks Resolve into thinking they're CDNG files. 

2 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

Magic Lantern isn't undependable. 1080p 14 bit RAW is a staple. It's just an annoying workflow.

Exactly, but the workflow isn't really annoying either anymore. With MLVFS, the MLV files can be brought into Resolve as if they're CDNGS... then you can color and edit them like any other files. 

1 minute ago, mkabi said:

Exactly my point... I'm not trying to insult you or the community... but all the "hype" is around these experimental builds. Everyone is excited to share the positives without sharing the negatives.

All I'm doing is pointing towards the negatives.... if you can look past them, you're golden.

Sure if the OP is basing his purchase of a 5D on the experimental builds, then it's probably not a good idea to purchase one. There's a crop and the last I checked there isn't any real, or accurate, Live View.

With that said, Andrew has a gorgeous sample of the 3.5K mode, and I've seen dozens of samples online. Even the eos-m has some nice features and IQ if you like to tinker. But based on what he said, it doesn't sound like that's his goal here.

I was merely correcting a false narrative that ML Raw is entirely useless on the 5D3. I mean, a filmmaker recently had his 5D3 ML Raw, narrative film debut at SXSW and received write ups in all the Hollywood trade magazines. Of course, he shot it in 1080p, but if it wasn't dependable, I doubt he would shoot a feature film on it.

26 minutes ago, mkabi said:

What about 3.5K Raw??? How many minutes can you record there?

Some builds have the live-view go black... so you are basically shooting blind... may be not yours as you are happy with it???

 

Those build are literally listed under "Experimental Builds" I don't know if you can judge the entire Magic Lantern Raw firmware based on a build that is titled experimental.

With that said, I agree that it really isn't for everybody. If I was starting in video now, I'd buy the Panasonic X1500/X2000 camcorder and shoot 10bit 4K up to 60p in their Cine Gamma (or whatever it's called). If I wanted Raw Video (I would) I'd buy a Sigma FP. It isn't as good for stills, although a Flickr search may contradict that, but for video... there isn't much better at that price range right now...

If the OP wants IBIS, get an S5...

If he wants AF and IBIS and doesn't need 10bit, then the A7iii will be fine as well.

But... what do I know? I still shoot with a 10 year old hacked camera. I'm happy with it, but it's not for everyone. Here's what I captured with mine in my first week with it...

But as I said... what do I know? I shoot stills on film and am thinking about buying a Bolex 16mm... so I'm hardly like very many users of this forum.

On 6/21/2022 at 12:20 PM, mkabi said:

Its more than just "artifacts"... do your research before going down that route...

If you are bothered by a 30 min. record limit... yeah well... you know what... do your research.

As far as I know, 1080p Raw runs continuous on the 5D Mark III. I've gotten as much as 10 minutes.

If you need 30 minutes... buy a camcorder.

I haven't read this thread, so I have no idea what the needs/wants of the OP are. I am only replying because I was added to the discussion...

I really don't understand why people on this forum keep saying that the 5D Mark III with ML Raw is unreliable? It is a hack, in a way, but it's more of a separate OS for the camera that can go back to the factory firmware at any time.

The settings and workflow are a bit convoluted, but I have NEVER heard of anyone bricking their camera with ML Raw. Is it possible? Well, the ML team says it is in their disclaimer, but it's common knowledge that's just a disclaimer so they aren't held responsible in case something were to happen.

Once all of the settings are figured out, the camera literally works like any other camera, other than the ability to play back and watch your files. It was a bit scary at first to not have that option, but once you shoot with it, you just trust that you got the shot. Otherwise it turns on and you're in Magic Lantern's menu and off you go. The only other downside is that you have to format your cards on a computer to exfat. The 5D3 is different than other models because it has an SD card slot and a CF slot. You install the firmware onto the SD card and record onto the CF. Other models require you to load the firmware onto the same card you're shooting on. With the 5D3, you load the firmware to the SD card once and leave it in the camera.

With that said, this information is only based on my experience with the 5D3 using a stable nightly build. I've never used the 5D2 or the eos-m. I did you use the 50D once and that was a hot mess until you got the footage into the computer and saw the image. It's what got me hooked on ML Raw.

And with that said, when asked if somebody should get the 5D3 for ML Raw, I usually say NO. 9 out of 10 times, people don't like the extra workflow and are intrigued by the experimental higher resolution modes which are finicky. For full frame, 1080p 14bit Raw... the camera cannot be beat!

Does anyone use that Portkeys EVF with the BMMCC? If so, how does it handle? I was thinking about getting one and pairing it with one of those trigger LANC handles to shoot it like an old Super 8 camera.

8bit = FS700 internal. 
10bit = GH5

1 minute ago, herein2020 said:

I have a pair of these in case I want to shoot at the higher bitrates.

V60s are fast enough for the Raw Lite? That's not bad. The C70 doesn't have a CF Express slot, right? 

49 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

For me and the type of things I shoot, the XF-AVC CODEC is all I need. My typical content ends up on websites and social media where the typical user is viewing it on their cell phone at 480P, so for me the extra storage, data rates, editing workflow, and the fact I would need faster cards to shoot at 4K60FPS isn't worth the small benefit of being able to change the WB. It is really nice though knowing I could shoot in RAW if I had a high enough paying commercial gig.

That makes sense. If I shot professionally at all, I'd probably shoot 1080p on a camcorder or C100 Mark II for social media content.

I am kinda curious about the camera though. Do you know how fast of cards are needed for up to 4K 60p Raw Lite? I'd mostly shoot in 24p. I'm thinking of renting one this summer for a short film and to just try out the camera. As much as I love my 5D3, I still get curious about these new cameras.

How many C70 users shoot in Raw Lite? I found some pretty nice looking samples on YT? I wish I had an extra 5 grand lying around.

3 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

Don't want to be "akshually" guy but.. If its RAW, it has no color rendering. Color is what RAW developer software provides. Image sensor doesn't output a "look".

No, but the camera's filter array will. For instance, Raw video from a Canon will have its own look compared to other cameras, no matter how it's processed.

Well... sure you can make it look however you want, but a straight conversion would yield a different color look than a straight conversion from another camera's raw video.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Magic Lantern RAW on the 5D Mark III in 3.5K still ranks above 95% of the camera market in terms of just image quality.

Agreed. Even the stable 1080p still pulls its weight over most $3000, and under, cameras... especially with the right lens combo.

Throw an old non-ai Nikkor, like the 28mm f/2, on it and it will give an almost instant 70s/early 80s gritty film look like something from Mean Streets.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Let's shoot some quick a dirty dynamic range tests

Here's mine, on the balcony

First is Sigma Fp-L in 8bit Cinema DNG RAW

Second is OM System OM-1 in 10bit LOG 4K:

A clear win for the Sigma Fp-L

You will need a bigger effort to get the best out of the OM-LOG

The Fp-L RAW seems to have that creamy RED EPIC / ALEXA look to me straight out of the can

And it doesn't sacrifice a boat load of colour to achieve such a wide DR.

This was in full frame mode to SD card.

I am sure the external 10bit and 12bit is even better in the highlights.

This looks really good. I always suspected the internal 8bit raw was usable. I'd imagine it would do well with a processed noir B&W image.

As usual, these conversations become boring and too one-sided. It's convenient to use Apple's complaint as some type of proof that Red is in the wrong here. The court found differently... perhaps Red's response cleared it up. Their timeline, supported by affidavits, state they were working on Redcode well before the other patents were filed. They also state that their compression is not based on JPEG2000.

https://*banned URL*/red-camera-apple-patent-challenge

It's easy to believe one party over the other if it supports your thesis or world view, but that doesn't make it true.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for more manufacturers to offer an internal Raw capability. I'm no Red Fanboy. But I do believe in the protection of intellectual property.

I'm curious how IntoPix claims its TicoRaw is a protected property given Red's stranglehold on compressed Raw.

With any footage I've ever worked on, it matches FCPX's waveform for 0 or 100 IRE. So it will only tell you if something is off if you compare.

Side note: it's a pretty nifty tool to use when practicing grading by hand/eye with FCPX's basic Color tools. 

4 hours ago, OleB said:

Any idea how to do that in FCPX? I have no idea how to do it. 😒

A simple way to check would be to click on the View drop down menu next to the screen and go to the safe levels and select either Luma, Saturation or All. Then a Zebra-Like image will appear when you're beyond Rec709 safe levels.

14 minutes ago, Alpicat said:

I bought a 2nd hand Oneplus 8 Pro (Android phone from 2020) to try shooting raw video with the motioncam app - the app is pretty stable overall with that phone. Below is a quick video I shot yesterday with it on the Emirates Air Line cable car in London. Worth watching on a large screen and set the video to 5K.

The phone has 3 lenses (ultrawide, wide, 3x tele). They all work fine at 4k up to 60fps (limited record time at that frame rate). This video was shot at a resolution of 4000x3000 (full sensor area) at 24fps using the RAW10 mode (which I guess means 10 bit raw?). The data rate is about 12.5gb per minute of footage. I exported it as cDNG uncompressed raw files, and edited it in Davinci Resolve.

The individual DNG photos from the video look very nice with lots of details. It's incredible what these phone sensors are capable of without any processing.

The rolling shutter is a bit of an issue - but I was on a cable car which was moving around quite a bit. I stabilised the footage in Resolve but that occasionally introduces some wobble in the image. The shutter speed was high on this as I didn't use an ND filter. 

I later found out you can record video straight to an external Samsung T5 SSD drive, which makes things much quicker since you can completely bypass the phone's internal memory. 

I made the music in the video on a Sequential Prophet 12 synthesizer.

 

This looks great!

As others have pointed out... any one of these companies could create an external handle or grip as a raw module and get around the patent.

Red used an idea, put in the R&D and made a workable product. Why should these multinational conglomerates be allowed to come in and piggy back their work just because it was inevitable someone else may want to do it sometime.

We'd have zero innovations if that's the way things worked. 

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

If there was a long line of compressed RAW cinema cameras before 2005 from Sony and Canon, then the RED patent wouldn't be novel.

But there wasn't.

I am not angry at RED any more.

I am more annoyed at corporate Japan for failing us.

Exactly. I don't care about Red. I'd love to own a used Scarlet X but it's unlikely I'll ever be a customer of theirs.

The greater point is that these majors could have avoided all of this 10 years ago and licensed ProRes from Apple and not have needed a raw codec. It's really overkill for hybrid cameras anyway. Blackmagic saw the obvious benefit and forked up the dough. I don't feel sorry for Canon or Nikon or Sony and their overheating issues.

27 minutes ago, cpc said:

Yes, you can do that. You can also do more sensible things like partial debayer (e.g Blackmagic BRAW).

 

This isn't novelty though. This is a basic example of inevitable evolution.

Exactly, there is plenty of wiggle room for these HUGE corporations to invest R&D and figure it out. I'm sure Apple, Sony and Nikon have the resources. Canon figured it out, or licensed it from Red. Others can too.

Again I cannot subscribe to the notion that someone shouldn't be allowed to patent something due to an obvious evolution. I mean, obviously it was inevitable that someone would have wanted to invent artificially illuminated light, but we still got the lightbulb from Edison (and Co.) because they put the work in and did it.

25 minutes ago, cpc said:

If you read the patents carefully they usually describe a few possible ways of doing this or that as "claims", and then explicitly say "but not limited to these". For years I used to think Red's patents are limited to in-camera Bayer compression at ratios 6:1 or higher, because this ratio is repeatedly mentioned as a "claim". Apparently, this wasn't the case as demonstrated by their actions against BM and others.

A few years ago when another post popped up... probably during the Apple case, I read the patent. I remember thinking that I didn't know why people are complaining. I remember thinking it was specific enough. They even described the way in which the compression occurs. Now that may be JPEG2000 compression, but it was very specific to their use.

Sorry, I just don't understand this idea that people cannot claim ownership to something that they created based on some idea that it was obvious someone else may eventually do it. I'm sure patents are issued every day that alter or improve upon a product or invention.

And still no mention of lenses...

Haha.

Hey, I've been there. I spent a couple years chasing an image. I went from a t2i to an eos-m to an nx500 to a G7 to a BMMCC...

Damn, I forget... I know there was a couple Sony cameras in there... some point and shoots... an FZ2500...

Eventually, I forked up the dough for an open box 5D Mark III, installed Magic Lantern Raw and never looked back. I've been curious about other cameras, but nothing in my price range has come even close. Right now I'm really curious about the Sigma FP and the S5. The FP for its raw capabilities, its small size and a bump in resolution. The S5 for IBIS run and gun, B&W with 14 stops of DR.

I'll probably just go forward with my 5D... I love the IQ, I already own it and KNOW it, and chasing specifics costs too much money for a hobby.

All that said... knowing what I know now... don't get the FX3. There's no reason why you can't get comparable images with the R6. I wouldn't even bother shooting Log right now. Practice with it and practice grading but just use Neutral Profile dialed down with the ProLost Flat settings... then make a couple simple adjustments in your NLE of choice... contrast and saturation... maybe add some Tint for style and move on.

If you're intent on buying a new camera... then get either an M50 Mark II or a GH5ii. The GH5 is a workhorse camera with plenty of headroom to manipulate the footage. Search Rowe Films on YouTube or Vimeo for examples of what can be accomplished.

The point is... it seems like you're chasing a pot of gold. I know, I've been there. I found mine, but when I did, everybody had moved on from it and I questioned my purchase a bunch of times... do I need 4K... should I have IBIS... do I need better AF.

It's all nonsense. The fact is this... all cameras under $4500 kinda suck in one way or another. So you either accept their faults based on other strengths (ibis and AF) and learn to bend the image a little or spend some money and get something more expensive... but then you won't have the convenience of the small size of hybrid cameras... and more expensive cameras aren't any easier to operate... they're just going to give you a sturdier footing.

If I remember correctly, it's not as broad as stated here. It discusses the process of compression, which compression ratios they are claiming ownership of and how it will work within the confines of the camera. There's also room within the concept for others to work around.