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On 2/19/2022 at 1:23 AM, Video Hummus said:

Well the DGO method is using hardware and the other method is doing two different exposures at different shutter speeds and then blending them. I think ZCAM tried to do this and this is also what phones are doing with fast shutter speeds and fast readouts (looks bad in my opinion).

This is an older thread discussing some of the 'dual gain output'/HDR methods in use - https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/38363-simultaneous-dual-gain-sensors/

After reading the Arri and Canon 'whitepaper' info:

Arri use a simultaneous dual ADC approach (their amplifiers and ADCs appear to be off-sensor), the combining the results.

Canon DGO reads out the stored charge for a pixel, stores it, then does two sequential ADC conversions at different gains and combines the results.

Both those approaches avoid the 'images captured at different times' motion artifacts issue that sequential frame capture HDR creates.

In that thread, androidlad mentions another HDR mode that some Sony sensors support called DOL-HDR - https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/38363-simultaneous-dual-gain-sensors/?do=findComment&comment=354063

28 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

My theory is Fuji is doing this on purpose as a form of hidden noise reduction.

That's pretty much my conclusion too, based on the info in the Petapixel article Django linked to upthread.

Given the smaller percentage of red & blue photo sites versus green ones in X-trans (compared to a Bayer pattern), there is likely to be a higher level of chroma noise that needs to be dealt with - doing what looks like pretty simplistic spatial (and maybe some temporal) filtering is a 'cheap' way of suppressing it.

I had a brief play with an OM-1 today (my local camera store had an 'Olympus Day' with an OM Systems rep in attendance).

Nice camera - feels very much like an E-M1 mk2/mk3 in the hand - as expected.

The new EVF is lovely - larger/sharper/smoother and nicer looking/less obtrusive graphics.

The new menu system looks good too (and is a long overdue redesign, I think).

It had the new 12-40mm 2.8 mk ii lens on it, so I tried it recording 4k60p with 'medium area' C-AF, shutter priority and (I think/assume) auto-ISO selected. I panned it back and forth between close focus inside the store to infinity outside in sunshine - nice smooth refocusing and exposure changes every time and the IBIS seemed very good - basically as expected.

I was a bit disappointed that (in video mode) it only appeared to offer a choice of four sizes of rectangular focus areas (centre, small, medium and full area) - I was expecting it to offer the same choice of focus areas & shapes as in stills mode (i.e. like my Pana G9 does). Asked the rep about this and he confirmed the limitation and that he'd pass my comments on to OM Systems. Note this is for the basic video C-AF - AFAIK touch-AF, tracking, subject recognition etc. can all be used for video, but I didn't try those.

Overall - based on a 10 minute play with it, of course - I think OM Systems have a very nice camera in the OM-1, and (particularly if you need a weather sealed, relatively small and light hybrid camera system) it feels probably worth the price.

Question is - do I really *need* to replace my G9 + E-M1 mk ii combo with an OM-1, or am I just suffering from GAS? 😀

13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The only great, relatively cheap lens for M4/3 is the 14-140mm. I think they are a bargain, and the later ones are Really good end to end. But they are hardly great for video.

The Pana 14-140mm 3.5-5.6 is actually my favourite lens for video, especially as it supports dual-IS2 stabilization with the higher-end Panasonic cameras. It's certainly the lens that's been on more foreign trips than any other I own. Just wish they'd make a version of it with power zoom - I can dream...

Next favourite is the Pana 12-60mm 3.5-5.6 - very cheap used, weather resistant, light weight, minimal focus breathing, dual-IS2 support, and works nicely on my E-M1 II as well as the Panasonic cameras.

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Watched the DP review video on the OM-1 earlier and it seemed like Chris and Jordan were pretty underwhelmed by it. 

4K 60p 10-bit internal is nice, but that is just kind of keeping pace with what has become pretty standard now. 

That's my reaction too - a good, solid, upgrade over the EM1 mk 3 but it's up against strong competition from the (somewhat cheaper) GH5ii, G9 & XT4, let alone all the full-frame stuff from Sony, Canon & Nikon (e.g. a Z6ii is the same price).

It's got a nice niche as rugged, smallish, lightweight camera with solid stills and video specs (which holds some interest for me personally), but it's going to be a very hard sell against Sony, Canon & Nikon full-frame cameras at similar price points.

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Why's it got an Olympus badge??

See this post - https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/60569-lets-all-dismiss-olympus/?do=findComment&comment=469282

How long they might continue to use the Olympus branding is anyone's guess.

44 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

True I guess. It also depends on what the Sony MFT sensor can do. I just expected 4K120p or more since it’s 20MP stacked sensor.

Well, here is hoping we see some solid DR and performance out of the latest MFT sensors going into these cameras. I think they are still at 14-bit. 

According to 43 Rumours it may be a Sony IMX472 sensor which has maximum 12-bit readout and up to 120 fps at 5280 x 3956 pixels, according to the 'flyer' for it.

3 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Yeah, I agree. However, it appears they didn’t really change the architecture at all from the EM1.3. 

If you mean the electronic architecture, compared to the EM1 Mk 3, they've doubled the video throughput (4k 60p versus 4k 30p, FHD 240p versus 120p), added HEVC compression, gone to 1053 AF points (was 121), added more 'Ai' AF subject recognition (from the EM1X), made both card slots UHS II capable (was one UHS II + one UHS I), doubled the viewfinder resolution etc.

Nothing ground-breaking, but seems a fairly major upgrade by Olympus standards 🙂

42 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I have a feeling it was already a blueprinted product at Olympus and very little changes were made since the spin off company from Olympus.

Given the development and production lead times involved in bringing something like this to market, plus it's using a new sensor and a new/heavily upgraded processor, I think that's almost certain.

Re. the use of the Olympus brand name on cameras going forward - this was in a dpreview news item on Jan 5th 2021:

Quote

We’ve also learned OM Digital Solutions has licensed the use of the Olympus brand name. So, in addition to the OM and Zuiko branding, the cameras will continue to be released under the Olympus brand ‘for the foreseeable future.’ This won’t always be the case, but an Olympus spokesperson told us they are ‘unable to provide the exact duration of its use, at this time.’

31 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I had thought it was ME who had messed up the focusing parameters somehow as I kept searching for the 9-point AF area in video.

The restriction is only mentioned in the manual as a footnote on page 39 ('Selecting the AF target mode'): "The single target mode is automatically applied in movie shooting if the group target mode is set" - it took me a while to work it out too.

31 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And since the Oly menus are still mysterious to me, I was driving myself going in circles through the menu.

I know what you mean... I like the 'Super Control Panel' (probably better than the Pana 'Quick Menu' equivalent), but the Oly main menu system badly needs needs a total re-design.

On 2/12/2022 at 11:18 AM, kye said:

So, the GH6 could have that sensor from the UMP12K, retain the MFT mount, and just use the middle 8K part as it is MFT sensor sized?  That would be incredible.  Could that be mounted on an IBIS mechanism?  I don't really know how those things work.

In theory then, assuming it kept the GH5 ethos, it could offer 8K downsampled to any resolution you want.  The UMP12K can do 8k120 and 8k160 in 2.4:1 aspect ratio, so with downsampling it could offer 120p in any resolution you wanted without cropping.  

That would be something to put the GH6 on the map!

According to this post in the UMP12K thread by androidlad that sensor is a customised version of a 120Mp Canon industrial sensor, so may be too expensive for use in a $2500 camera, even if Canon were willing to sell it to Panasonic (and able to, given that BM may have exclusive rights to that version of it).

10 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Probably this is the case. Olympus is no longer a camera company, is a medical company. 

Since OM Digital is a small spin-off with an uncertain future, probably they don't want their names linked if the JIP makes bad moves. 

I agree - especially as traditionally the cameras have been a high visibility part of the Olympus 'brand image'.

19 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

There are a few things that drive me mad with my E-M1 MK II, such as the fact that LOG and Flat Profiles are ONLY available in 24fps DCI (not in 23.978fps, nor in UHD 16:9), and you have to do a bit of menu diving to get in to those picture profiles. On the other hand, for non-log, using the Natural profile with reduced contrast, sharpness and saturation is really nice as long as the dynamic range isn't overwhelming.

Yes, the inconsistences on the E-M1 MK II get annoying - a few of mine:

• DCI not being available in 25p or 30p
• No AF-lock capability (other than an 'AF-off' function that can only be programmed to the lens function button, not to any of the camera buttons - so is unavailable with most lenses).
• A central single point focus area that's larger in video mode than in stills mode (undocumented, and very awkward for wildlife video e.g. filming birds through surrounding foliage).
• No 9 and 25 point area AF for video (just central single and all points) - you can use LCD screen 'touch AF' to get a small/medium area, but you have to remember to do that before hitting record and it's not persistent. (The Mk III does have 9 and 25 point area AF for video).

The DCI 4k/24p/LOG/Flat situation feels like product marketing wanted some 'Cinema' feature tick boxes added, but never considered that some of those features are just as useful and appealing to video users who use other frame rates...

I think there's two reasons Oly hasn't historically been very popular with video shooters:

1. The EM5 ii was their first m43 camera to take video vaguely seriously, about 5 years after the GH2, 3 years after the GH3 (& G6 a bit later) and a year after the GH4 came out.

2. They've always seemed to market the cameras primarily for stills use.

Based on my experience of owning the EM1 ii, G9 and G80 (and several older Pana cams), Oly has the best stabilisation in the business and great build quality, but their video quality just hasn't been competitive with Panasonic (other than DCI 4k on the EM1 ii, but that's 24p only for some reason). Nice colours but just soft in comparison, especially the 1080p.

3 hours ago, hoodlum said:

The OM-1 video specs seem underwhelming to even the GH5/G9.

Assuming the leaked specs are accurate, for video the OM-1 is basically a bit ahead of the (4 year old and half the price!) G9, and that's only if the video quality is significantly better than on the EM-1 iii (like 1080p that's worthy of the name, and somewhat sharper 4k UHD). It's got DCI 4k and All-I 1080p support which the G9 doesn't have.

Versus the cheaper GH5 ii it seems well behind on video specs...

43 Rumours now has an 'FT5 rated' spec sheet for the OM-1 - the sensor and video format info from it:

Sensor size: 17.4 mm x 13.0 mm (Micro Four Thirds)

Lens mount: Micro Four Thirds Mount

Image sensor type: 4/3 Stacked BSI Live MOS Sensor

Number of pixels: Number of effective pixels: Approx. 20.4 million pixels

Total number of pixels: Approx. 22.9 million pixels

Aspect ratio: 4:3

Video formats:

MOV(MPEG-4AVC/H.264)

   4096 x 2160 (C4K): 60p, 50p / LongGOP (Approx. 202Mbps) 30p, 25p, 24p / LongGOP (Approx. 102Mbps)
   
   3840 x 2160 (4K):60p, 50p / LongGOP (Approx. 202Mbps) 30p, 25p, 24p / LongGOP (Approx. 102Mbps)
   
   1920 x 1080 (FHD):60p, 50p / LongGOP (Approx. 52Mbps)30p, 25p, 24p / ALL-I (Approx. 202Mbps) LongGOP (Approx. 27Mbps)

MOV (HEVC/H.265)

   4096 x 2160 (C4K):60p, 50p / LongGOP (Approx. 152Mbps)30p, 25p, 24p / LongGOP (Approx. 77Mbps)
   
   3840 x 2160 (4K):60p, 50p / LongGOP (Approx. 152Mbps)30p, 25p, 24p / LongGOP (Approx. 77Mbps)
   
   1920 x 1080 (FHD):60p, 50p / ALL-I (Approx. 162Mbps) , LongGOP (Approx. 42Mbps) 30p, 25p, 24p / ALL-I (Approx. 82Mbps) , LongGOP (Approx. 22Mbps)
   

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I remember how pedantic the replies to your last trivia question got so I'm going to get an early bid in by saying Metabones.

...and the Viltrox EF-M2 II (EF to M43)

Tamron (14-150mm f3.5-5.8 zoom)

On 2/3/2022 at 7:57 PM, FalkirkEagle said:

Hello all,

I'm in the midst of simplifying my camera gear in hopes of getting one camera that does video as well as it does stills.

I currently own the following:

Sony NX80 camcorder

Canon XC10 camcorder

Canon EOS M6 Mk II with EF-M 18-150 and 11-22 lenses.

I bought the NX80 last summer (brand new) and found it was too much camera for my needs. I also bought the XC10 used and found I didn't like it that much. I like the M6, but don't care for the 4K video it produces, and it seems like Canon are going to be discontinuing EF-M lenses and EOS-M series cameras soon.

On 2/3/2022 at 7:57 PM, FalkirkEagle said:

So what could I buy to simplify things and be reasonably future-proof? Without losing my shirt on what I've bought? And give me decent stills and quality?

As others have said, we really need to know what your preferences are and what you plan to use it for?

Is size and weight important?

Do you shoot video indoors in relatively dim conditions or outdoors, sometimes in bad weather, 'run-n-gun' handheld or carefully set up on a tripod, at ordinary subject distances or distant wildlife using long telephoto lenses?

Is video or stills performance more important, or do you want a camera that can do both reasonably well?

Is video autofocus performance important, or do you mostly use manual focus/S-AF?

Is image stabilisation important?

As I'm a micro4/3 user who mostly shoots handheld... In the UK at the moment there are some very good deals (around £600-700 body only) on used Panasonic GH5 & G9 and the Olympus E-M1 mk II - all excellent bang-for-the-buck cameras with great build quality, fast operation, weather resistance and top-notch image stabilisation. The two Panasonics have somewhat better video quality (including 10-bit support) but the E-M1 mk II stabilisation is probably a bit better overall and it's smaller, lighter and is a nice, very solid feeling camera. (I own a G9 and an E-M1 Mark II).

8 hours ago, kye said:

The digital stabilisation was done in Resolve, which has better digital stabilisation than ANY camera will EVER have, because Resolve can see into the future and cameras can't.

IBIS / OIS stabilises DURING the exposure of each frame, digital stabilisation does not and therefore the frames will have motion blur.  

You're not comparing IBIS to in-camera digital image stabilisation in your video, which is what is relevant to the R5 versus R5c situation - you are comparing IBIS to post-production DIS.

AFAIK modern in-camera DIS normally uses in-camera motion sensors to control it (as does sensor-shift IBIS), whereas stabilisation in post normally has to derive the motion information just from the video frame content (motion estimation/prediction). One exception to that is Sony with some A7 models that add camera motion sensor data as metadata to the video files, so their software can perform post-production DIS based on real camera movement data.

I agree with you that you can't remove motion blur due to unintentional camera movement in post DIS - that needs OIS/IBIS. But I suspect that lens OIS + good in-camera DIS can get pretty close to what OIS + IBIS can achieve in a lot of situations, if it's properly integrated and implemented i.e. lens and body from same manufacturer.

Personally, based on my experience with Panasonic GX80, G80 and G9, I almost always have the additional EIS enabled because (for my use cases) I think the minimal image quality degradation is outweighed by the increased stability and lower warping artefacts at wide angles.

4 hours ago, dreamplayhouse said:

For the price of $166 I figure it's a steal for video

Definitely!

Did you shoot the video in 1080p or 4k?

Working fine for me 😀

Hi Andrew,

Welcome back - we've missed you!

I think you did the right thing in taking a break from it after 11 years, and very much agree with concentrating on creativity and how to get the best out of more modestly priced equipment. The latest multi-thousand dollar cameras are interesting as indicators of what will trickle down to the mainstream later, but there are a ton of other information and opinion sources covering that anyway, and for me the creative and tell-it-how-it-is blog posts/articles/forum posts have always been the real strength of EOSHD.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

13 hours ago, dreamplayhouse said:

Looking to purchase a very good 1080p Panasonic and wondering out of these few, which would be best?
GH2
GH3
G6
GH4
G7

I'd agree with the others that out of that list the GH4 is the one I'd go for, with the G7 second.

But if your budget will run to a good used GH4, I'd also seriously suggest trying to stretch it maybe 25% further to a used G9, which is in a different league (GH5-level) of 1080p picture quality with up to 10-bit 4:2:2 100Mbps capability (plus you get 4k @ 24/25/30p up to 10bit 4:2:0 150Mbps and 4k50/60p up to 8bit 4:2:0). It's also got better IBIS and video AF than the GH5 (mk1). Main downsides (versus the GH series) are 30 minute max record times per clip (10 mins for 4k50/60p), no All-I or > 150Mbps codecs and no 1080p @ 24p recording - which has always been a weird limitation, as it does offer 4k @ 24p recording.

(In the UK, used G9s from dealers are around £500 - £650 at the moment, which is excellent value for such a capable camera)