Tone1k

Andrew,
 
I'm not American, have lived both in the UK and Australia and from a multicultural background but this is not about people not having a sense of humour. 
Let's say a person you didn't know all that well kept joking about 'fucking young boys', while the jokes aren't all that funny he concluded with 'just joking yeah!'. A few years later it's found that those jokes were based on something more real. Do you look back and think 'well the writing was on the wall'. Could something have been done to prevent the outcome? Are Gunns jokes still jokes if we find out that he himself is a paedophile in a few years time? 
If Gunn's jokes were about a third party like Machael Jackson or the Catholic church, it becomes a different kettle of fish as it's not a direct reflection of a person's character.
Joking about committing disgraceful acts yourself though, should be used to judge character. At what point do we start showing concern if everything is 'just a joke'? 
Is joking about raping women ok in your eyes? Should women just 'lighten up' and accept jokes about rape? 
By making this acceptable 'banter', you you dilute the issue socially and over time, make this behaviour the norm making it hard to decider when concern should be raised. 
There are plenty of comedians who are able to be funny without relying on poor taste punch lines like Gunn's. His reliance is on shock value to get a reaction and it's pretty pathetic to be honest.
 

That would be a very sad thing, kidzrevil. I always enjoy looking at your work, but I've gotta agree, I'm finding it increasingly uncomfortable to come here and read these opinion pieces.

It's not a one-off either. There have been an increasing amount of posts here (not Andrew's, but on this forum) that I've found pretty reprehensible – there was a topic a few months ago where posters made fun of an initiative to encourage more female filmmakers in pretty vulgar terms. I have learned so much from a lot of very talented posters here over the years but I really think discussion with a more political bent should be taken elsewhere. I think it's important to encourage open discourse wherever possible, and that's a hugely important role that films do very well, but when it quickly turns into ugly insults being thrown around I think it's clear these forums are not the place.

I feel like this is a trend and I hope Andrew finds a way to reverse it.

Did you actaully ban Damphousse from this forum based on this discussion? 
 
Gunns tweets were completely out of line. Sorry, but 'fucking little boys' is not comedy and talk like that should not be normalised. The number of Paedophilia 'jokes' he makes is also quite alarming.
 

I have a very early preorder on the Pocket 4k but what I still like about the FS700 w/ odyssey is the internal ND's, two proper XLR inputs, a great quality monitor, S35mm sensor, 4k 50p and even 4K 100p in burst (I'm in a PAL country). 
Yes, its a bigger/more cumbersome  rig than the pocket4k, but then sometimes that's a benefit. I also shoot a fair bit on Red and that's no less cumbersome than the FS700 w/odyssey. I'm not going to pretend the FS700 is ergonomic but it depends what your use to I suppose. Also, I can't really see myself using the Pocket 4k in its basic form all that often anyway. I would need another monitor mounted to it as the non tilting built in one is unusable when using a cinesaddle or any position you can't see the screen straight on. I would also probably want a mattebox for ND's (not a fan of VariNds). Battery life May also be an issue on longer shoots and then I'd brobably want some sort of small cage with top handle for handling. Are these issues for everyone? Of course not, but for my use, the FS700 may still be the better camera of the two but I'll evaluate that when I have the Pocket 4k in hand. 
Some of the work I do uses the Sony F5 and f55 as an A Cam so the FS700 cuts in perfectly with them. 
While the c300 does shoot lovely images, it's frame rate limitations made it a non starter for the work I do. 
Please don't get on here making it sound like I'm bashing on any particular camera, I'm just outlining why one camera may be better for certain people. 
For me, the FS700 is still a perfectly great camera today just as the FS7, f5 and f55 are. The FS700 w/odyssey punches far far above its weight and judging it on its age or current second hand price is just wrong. 
I'm seeing FS700's w/ Odyssey's including 5+ batteries, 4x512GB CD SSD's, full cage etc going for $3500 AUD. I can't see the Pocket4k being any cheaper once I add a second monitor, batteries, the equivalent 4x500GB Cfast cards, ND's etc...but right now I can't be bothered doing the math.
What I am looking forward to with the Pocket4k is the colour science and the compressed RAW options. 
 

Did you actaully ban Damphousse from this forum based on this discussion? 
 
Gunns tweets were completely out of line. Sorry, but 'fucking little boys' is not comedy and talk like that should not be normalised. The number of Paedophilia 'jokes' he makes is also quite alarming.
 

iPhone is Chinese. 
I have the original One Plus One (cheap Chinese) and while I've moved on to a Samsung, the one plus is still going strong and I use it when I travel OS. 

What system do you cut on? 
That Synology Nas is a good unit. Fill it with 8 drives in a raid 10 config and it will be plenty fast as long as you install a 10gbe card in it and use a 10gbe to thunderbolt adaptor. Using the 1gbe connections will not give you the speed you need. Do you need to share the data on it with other users? 

Did you actaully ban Damphousse from this forum based on this discussion? 
 
Gunns tweets were completely out of line. Sorry, but 'fucking little boys' is not comedy and talk like that should not be normalised. The number of Paedophilia 'jokes' he makes is also quite alarming.
 

What system do you cut on? 
That Synology Nas is a good unit. Fill it with 8 drives in a raid 10 config and it will be plenty fast as long as you install a 10gbe card in it and use a 10gbe to thunderbolt adaptor. Using the 1gbe connections will not give you the speed you need. Do you need to share the data on it with other users? 

iPhone is Chinese. 
I have the original One Plus One (cheap Chinese) and while I've moved on to a Samsung, the one plus is still going strong and I use it when I travel OS. 

I have a very early preorder on the Pocket 4k but what I still like about the FS700 w/ odyssey is the internal ND's, two proper XLR inputs, a great quality monitor, S35mm sensor, 4k 50p and even 4K 100p in burst (I'm in a PAL country). 
Yes, its a bigger/more cumbersome  rig than the pocket4k, but then sometimes that's a benefit. I also shoot a fair bit on Red and that's no less cumbersome than the FS700 w/odyssey. I'm not going to pretend the FS700 is ergonomic but it depends what your use to I suppose. Also, I can't really see myself using the Pocket 4k in its basic form all that often anyway. I would need another monitor mounted to it as the non tilting built in one is unusable when using a cinesaddle or any position you can't see the screen straight on. I would also probably want a mattebox for ND's (not a fan of VariNds). Battery life May also be an issue on longer shoots and then I'd brobably want some sort of small cage with top handle for handling. Are these issues for everyone? Of course not, but for my use, the FS700 may still be the better camera of the two but I'll evaluate that when I have the Pocket 4k in hand. 
Some of the work I do uses the Sony F5 and f55 as an A Cam so the FS700 cuts in perfectly with them. 
While the c300 does shoot lovely images, it's frame rate limitations made it a non starter for the work I do. 
Please don't get on here making it sound like I'm bashing on any particular camera, I'm just outlining why one camera may be better for certain people. 
For me, the FS700 is still a perfectly great camera today just as the FS7, f5 and f55 are. The FS700 w/odyssey punches far far above its weight and judging it on its age or current second hand price is just wrong. 
I'm seeing FS700's w/ Odyssey's including 5+ batteries, 4x512GB CD SSD's, full cage etc going for $3500 AUD. I can't see the Pocket4k being any cheaper once I add a second monitor, batteries, the equivalent 4x500GB Cfast cards, ND's etc...but right now I can't be bothered doing the math.
What I am looking forward to with the Pocket4k is the colour science and the compressed RAW options. 
 

"Lucky to not understand"... Patronising much? I'm in Melbourne, a friend of mine is a product manager at BMD though not the camera department and I've had conversations about this with him, though not directly relating to BMD. I understand perfectly.
This is all beside the point though. The issues that plagued 1st gen cameras were given as an example and way to ask a question: with the P4K, is product testing more stringent now or should we expect to see issues like those found in the BMD first gen cameras or even the Ursa Mini 4k considering the sensor is new to BMD. 
That's it. 
Yes, first gen TV's. That's why I'm asking the question. BMDs cameras are not first gen now but this sensor is a first gen sensor for them hence the question..... Is it really that unreasonable a question? 
Having a hot light source in the frame is completely normal. As is shooting any indoor scene without the FPN and flicker that plagued Ursa Mini 4k. I used three copies and they were all un usable with the same issues unless shooting in bright sunlight. 

"Lucky to not understand"... Patronising much? I'm in Melbourne, a friend of mine is a product manager at BMD though not the camera department and I've had conversations about this with him, though not directly relating to BMD. I understand perfectly.
This is all beside the point though. The issues that plagued 1st gen cameras were given as an example and way to ask a question: with the P4K, is product testing more stringent now or should we expect to see issues like those found in the BMD first gen cameras or even the Ursa Mini 4k considering the sensor is new to BMD. 
That's it. 
Yes, first gen TV's. That's why I'm asking the question. BMDs cameras are not first gen now but this sensor is a first gen sensor for them hence the question..... Is it really that unreasonable a question? 
Having a hot light source in the frame is completely normal. As is shooting any indoor scene without the FPN and flicker that plagued Ursa Mini 4k. I used three copies and they were all un usable with the same issues unless shooting in bright sunlight. 

I'm 100% certain it'll be within the next couple of months.

Hi JB, 
Thanks for your input here on this forum. 
While you say that BM have asked most of the questions asked here already in the devolopment stages, I'm a little more interested in the product testing stages pre release.
While the Ursa Mini line have had a lot less image quality issues than 1st Gen BMD cameras like the Production and Production 4k, image quality issues like sunspots in highlights, high levels of flicker and FPN (in the UrsaMini 4k) seem like obvious  issues that should be picked up on pre release of the camera. Why do issues like this get through if product testing occurs prior to release? Surely a test of the original Production camera would have included shooting a frame with a light source on it and the sun spot show up? 
While I trust that BM have learned from their past mistakes, and I know that a working version of the Pocket 4K has been doing the rounds with viewings in retailers here in Australia to hopefully get feedback pre release, do cameras go through more thorough testing now compared to a few years ago or can we expect the Pocket 4K, with a new sensor (to BMD) to have image quality issues on release and then BMD address them afterwards? 
Cheers. 

Let's not start speculating in delays until after September. There is still plenty of time for BM to deliver on time... Delay conversations are boring especially when the due date hasn't even passed yet. 

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here. 

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here. 

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here. 

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here. 

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here. 

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here. 

This topic will be the last place I will be looking for information on the pocket 4K at this point, Its got 130 pages of speculation, requests, wishes, complaints. But no actual user feedback or footage. So I am stunned that people are all of sudden complaining that it got a bit off topic, while John's insight is probably the most valuable information you can find in those 130 pages. 

Eh, what!? 
The Kinefinity is the same design as a Red in the same way a Canon DSLR is the same design as a Nikon one, or a Sony ENG camera the same design as a Panasonic one, or a Brand A car fundamentally the same design as a brand B car. They all have the same basic design and configuration. 
 

Why does what the Pocket 4k 'looks like' matter in the slightest? 
If the images are good and it's ergonomically well designed, I couldn't care less what it 'looks like'. 
I just don't get it, sorry.