IronFilm

This DoP I just very recently shot a web series with (filmed on a Panasonic S5IIX primarily, sometimes with S5mk2 as a second camera as well) just uploaded a video with his initial impressions of the Panasonic S9:
 
I was just looking at their prices a second ago! Absolutely shockingly expensive. 
Seems like a lot of the small mini sized cameras, not just the GM5 (but also the GM1, GX8, GX85, etc etc), from Panasonic are more overpriced than I thought they would be. 

The major problem is that a lot of people thinks that ths is a X100VI contender. It is not. It is a competitor to ZV-E10 / ZV-E1.

A very video-vlogger centric camera, that could also take photos, where the user wants the content to be online ASAP. Never intended for serious stills or video work - hence the absence of more controles or even a grip.

We are all crappy old dudes / cinema-quality crazy people here, the opposite of the targeted group of this camera. There is some style / nostalgia think ocurring with (some) young people, the X100V / VI mania was just a part of it.

Saw a post from a photographer in Tokyo that noted another parts of this trend - he was looking around in streets and subways and saw a lot (and he meant, A LOT) of young people carrying point&shoots. Old Powershots and Cybershots everywhere, and very few taking photos with phones. Hetalked to some of them and they said that is a new stylish trend between them, that they are tired of the same pictures that every phone take, and that the P&S photos have more character. Prices of used P&S CCD cameras are skyrocketing.

And I guess that this was the targeted crowd of the S9. They made a P&Sish full frame camera. With a stylish exterior, few controls, geared towards video - but MUCH more stills capable than a ZV-E10 / ZV-E1 (the latter have only 12mp, remember). And for the "character", there is the LUT ecosystem.

Which, for me, is BRILLIANT. They made what I was telling Fuji to do - embrace custom film simulations, instead of making it hard to work. Using "film recipes" in Fuji is a pain in the ass - you have to assign it to a custom setting position, but if you want to use the shooting parameters of the custom position (like a Portrait setting, with shutter speed, of setting, etc) and want to change the film recipe - no way. 

Yes, there will be some WB balance problems with the LUTs in the S9 - and a lot of confusion when people put a V-Log lut and the ISO don't go down from 640. But the easy of use, and the promise from the newer Lumix Lab app, makes kind of a interesting ecosystem.

They made a new MP4 codec with a 50mb/s bitrate. Looks crap? In a computer, is not bad, but the quality drop is visible. In a smartphone screen? Looks almost the same a pro codec - but since the file is much lighter, you could take a short clip, that the new app is already transferring on the background (yes, the new app could do it), when you end and store the camera the video is already on the app, you could apply the LUT if is already not applied (even with tranparency % of the LUT!) and send the file (which is lighter since the beginning) to social media. Still not perfect, but looks (and some reviewers, as Manny Ortiz said) that is the best camera->app->social media implementation to date.

Will not buy it, but looking how I use my X-S20 nowadays (remembering, I'm an amateur), almost only the EVF and two more buttons would be dealbreakers. 

(Re)updated list:
Pros for S9
258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Cold shoe Pros for S5ii
EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body Hot shoe for flash photography and XLR adapter Full-sized HDMI Clearly, if anything, the S9 is a true testament to how good the S5ii is in terms of engineering and size.
For the form factor and l mount, would you prefer the almost 5 year old Sigma FP or the brand new Panasonic S9? The Sigma is 64g lighter and has a fan, but no IBIS or decent AF.

It's not a release that entices me at all but props to Panasonic for putting recording limits so people at least know how long they can record for. If you're absolutely deadset on releasing a camera that has overheating issues (ugh) the least you can do is be honest about it. Now if only other camera manufacturers did that....
I really don't know what to say about that lense, though. I guess it'll appeal to Street shooters? 

Here is an interesting take on the s9 and luts
btw I really like the shots and color she gets out of any camera.
tldr she raves about the high yield of jpeg soc and zero postpro.

I guess my point is that, for whatever reason, these people don't consider it in need of "fixing," it's already how they like it.
Maybe the real takeaway is that you and I are just old curmudgeons now lol.

The problem is when you look at the footage 2-30 years down the line or even after just a few hours in some cases. Some of that stuff will be impossible to fix. Hell, how long did it take Sony to come up with OK color science? They had engineers, colorist, and programmers figuring it out. Now, Panasonic wants Joe Blow to figure it out in unlimited lighting situations on a 3 inch screen. It doesn't sound like it's going to end well. Maybe I'm taking this way too seriously; after all, it supposed to be a fun camera. I can only imagine the dad/daughter conversation 30 years from now. Why do the videos look so weird, Dad? Was I ill? No, I put on this super cool blockbuster theme. I was going for the Micheal Bay look. Sorry.

It's kind of fascinating how popular bad looking videos are. Lots of people take videos on phones, add snapchat filters on their 5" screen in direct sunlight, post, and people like it.

Finally, I will personally hold Panasonic responsible for effing up millions of hours of footage with Realtime LUTs. You're asking people (often beginners) to judge their footage on a 3 inch screen. What could go wrong. I'm watching footage from these youtubers that looks awful IMO! There's got to be a reason you don't do this in camera. 

Updated list:
Pros for S9
258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Cold shoe Pros for S5ii
EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body Hot shoe for flash photography and XLR adapter The more I think about the S9, the more I think it really has a "it doesn't have an optical low-pass filter" as a feature kind of vibe.
Also, I'm truly baffled by the 26mm fixed f8 manual focus "lens" for $200- WTF. What were you thinking, Panasonic?

Based only on specs:
Pros for S9
258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Pros for S5ii
EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body These are just off the top of my head and there are probably more. The S9 will never have those things, but I bet the S5ii will also pick up the S9's LUT features. That's a HELL OF A LOT for the price of 258g and $300 more. You'd really have to love the looks of the S9 I think (and it does look cool). If the S9 were sub $1000, maybe (for me).

With the LUTs app and smartphone connectivity, maybe this cam is aimed at people shooting for rapid posting on Instagram and other social media. I could actually see it being useful for concert videos, for example, where you could upload quick snippets of a concert to Instagram during or right after the concert, and they'd look a cut above the usual smartphone captures.

Rumoured that "doesn’t have a fan, recording is limited to 10 minutes at 6K and 15 minutes at 4K"...
source
 
If confirmed, will this be a real camera for serious or WTH... just another smartphone? LOL :- )

I 100% can and do see that, I agree. 
Know quite a few people who don't do narratives any more because of those hours and grind it takes on your life, focusing instead on something else like docos or commercials. 
If image quality is what you want, then yeah ARRI AMIRA is "the best" ENG camera. 
Not so good in some other areas though (like size, weight, powering demands!). 
I think the big reason people would use the nanoflash recorder with it was just so they could have anything which was better than that lightweight 35mbs codec
One with 2/3" & B4 mount? So you mean the Panasonic AG-HPX500 perhaps? 
There is one on eBay right now that just got listed for US$545:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266503459184 
If you can settle for the GH4 sensor instead there is the Panasonic DVX200! 😛
Wish they'd kept on updating the DVX200 each time there was a new GH series sensor. Or even better, let you swap out the lens on the DVX200!

The end is near:
https://petapixel.com/2024/04/16/the-trailer-for-the-worlds-first-fully-ai-generated-film-is-here/
 
 
Kinda irrelevant. 
Even if prices jacked way up so that the price matches the costs, that's still going to be dirt cheap vs the price to make a film the traditional way. 
Plus you're just thinking about the costs today. 
What was the cost of a gaming machine to run Doom back in 1997?? 
Kinda pricey! $$$
What does it cost these days to run Doom? Next to nothing is the cost 
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Can_it_run_Doom%3F 

BMD’s menu system and OS is already designed around a 4-5” screen. It’s a great OS and menu too!
To make one for a two inch screen would require a complete redesign. Im not sure they would save much money by doing this TBH. I think the side screen works. Means you can change settings and get a visual, useful if rigging the camera on a gimble, car etc just for lining up. 

Indeed there is!  They were smart to choose the Z Cam EVF for it so they won't need a separate wireless transmitter (though there will be a bit of lag with the Ninja in-between).
That one's been discussed here, I think.  Should fit in a niche somewhere, though with DSMC2 VV cameras selling and renting at pretty reasonable prices, I'm not sure what that niche might be.  😅

My prediction is:
1: Add 8k RED raw to high end MILC's such as the Z9 or its successor. 6k to lower tier stuff such as the Z6 line...
2: Develop a cine line of their own in tandem with a RED line but a few differences, a bit like Lumix SL2 and Leica S1R (see what I did there?) ie, just boxed and badged slightly differently.
3: The next RED camera will have Z Mount as will any/all future RED cameras and RF for one final fling...if at all, before cutting Canon completely out of the loop.
Summary:
Nikon have come back strong in the last couple of years, especially with the Z9, Z8, Zf and probably Z6iii and I expect that market share and their image to continue to improve.
I expect them to push now into the video/cine market much more than they have with just hybrid MILC cameras and develop a dedicated cine line akin to Sony, so FX3, FX6, FX9, Burano... 
The appeal and their market will be to 'prosumers', hybrid event shooter people like me, indie filmmakers and the commercial market plus maybe some 'Hollywood' budget level productions, but won't oust Arri or Sony from that perch, ie, will be niche in that regard.
Nothing else makes any sense to me.
But what do I know, I ain't exactly Quasimodo. (Got to be a boxing fan to get that one) 😜

Was this guy responsible for the genius idea of putting a CFE card inside Red mini mag and charge 10x? 

What the... HECK????
That makes no sense at all, unless they're planning to just let RED slowly die??
But when I read the article myself, I see it in a completely different manner:
1) will take time to integrate Nikon and RED together, might be years. There is a lot to do! So with all the other stuff on their plate, perhaps a Z Mount Cinema Camera won't be the first thing out the gate, maybe it will be one more cycle down the road. (maybe they want to make a BIG impact with it when they release it? Have awesome AF with RED)
2) they want to keep their loyal RED customers happy during these turbulent times, so "for now" they'll reassure them by keeping RF mount 
There is a very cool mod for a Fujifilm camera however:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/04/16/old-fast-glass-ofg-custom-65-rehoused-fujifilm-gfx-100-ii-cinema-camera/ 
 

What the... HECK????
That makes no sense at all, unless they're planning to just let RED slowly die??
But when I read the article myself, I see it in a completely different manner:
1) will take time to integrate Nikon and RED together, might be years. There is a lot to do! So with all the other stuff on their plate, perhaps a Z Mount Cinema Camera won't be the first thing out the gate, maybe it will be one more cycle down the road. (maybe they want to make a BIG impact with it when they release it? Have awesome AF with RED)
2) they want to keep their loyal RED customers happy during these turbulent times, so "for now" they'll reassure them by keeping RF mount 
There is a very cool mod for a Fujifilm camera however:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/04/16/old-fast-glass-ofg-custom-65-rehoused-fujifilm-gfx-100-ii-cinema-camera/ 
 

I agree the lawsuit and the patent for Redcode was probably the driving force, but they didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars to buy Red solely for the patent. They could have licensed it for 2 decades and developed their own cine line of cameras and lenses for less than that.
Other than the RedCode patent... what other tech does Red have?
They have an established brand in the high end cinema space and a lower tiered customer base that will pay top dollar to be a part of that brand.
Don't get me wrong, I love photographic history and I am a huge fan of Nikon. I own a small set of ai-s lenses and a small set of scalloped ringed non-ai lenses with the "C" coating. They're obviously one of the greatest photographic companies in history with an amazing lineage... in the photographic world. Until very recently, their video capabilities were lacking. It will take a while for them to gel with a lot of cinematographers... they'll just use Arri cameras instead.
Then again... I reserve the right to be completely wrong. 

Doubtful.
Antiquated cultural practices aside, Nikon didn't need Red to create a lower tiered cinema camera. They bought a patent and a brand. A brand with a VERY loyal following in the lower tier and a loyal user base in the higher tier, Hollywood, cinematography world.
If they aren't, at all, interested in the brand, then they spent hundred of millions of dollars for a patent. Red doesn't make lower tiered cameras, but they can help each other.
If Nikon eventually dismantles the Red brand, it won't be in 2 years. Maybe in a decade after they gain the trust and reputation with the Red loyal user base and the Hollywood cinematography community.
I do think the Komodo could bridge the gap between Red and Nikon, though... with the OG Komodo being more Nikon with a new composite, user friendly design and the Komodo X staying truer to the Red brand.
But I think Nikon will use a "powered by Red" moniker, or something like that, in their higher tiered MILCs.
 

Panasonic is the easiest of those.  The Varicam has been used on a bunch of stuff.
https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/cinema_camera_varicam_eva/shot_on/

As far as Canon...
https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/canon-eos-c500-camera
https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/canon-eos-c300-camera

Keep in mind that the C500 series and C300 series weren't the A camera on most/all of the things listed, but neither was the RED on several of the films that you called out.  
I doubt that Fuji cameras have been used on a lot of major Hollywood productions.  To the best of my knowledge, Fuji don't make ANY cinema cameras.  I'd be shocked, though, if Fuji's excellent cinema lenses hadn't made their way into at least a handful.

Anyway.  Take a deep breath.  In the end, it doesn't matter even a little bit to any of us if NIkon retire the RED brand - not unless you own stock in Nikon and are worried about it would do to your investment.  😉
FWIW, the most typical/obvious thing here is that Nikon will continue to operate RED as a separate business unit for a time, likely attaching Nikon to the RED name somehow - "RED by Nikon" or "Nikon RED" or something like that.  Eventually, the integration will get tighter and current RED engineers will be replaced by Nikon engineers and the naming will change - "The Nikon RED Z1" or something like that.  Eventually, RED will look just like any other business unit of Nikon, but continue to make cinema-focused cameras and nobody will care much about whether they keep or lose the name.
 

What a bunch of non sense from people like you. Nikon has their own tech, the Z9 is superior to the Sony Burano 30k camera!!! They could build a Burano killer tomorrow with the z9 internals, they don't absolutely need RED tech if they wanted to go into the video camera world. But can you show me any of Canon, Panasonic or Fuji with even a tenth of that resumé https://www.red.com/shot-on-red. Please show us, I am sure Canon has be used on the likes of blockbusters like Dr strange, Spiderman, Aquaman, Guardian of the Galaxy, The Suicide SQUAD, The flash and some of the biggest TV shows like the Witcher etc etc. 
I will wait, to think their are some people who think a company will throw away such a legacy is just dumb. If you don't even know the basic of branding, why Honda who sells Civics, invested billions on an F1 engine, or Renaud doing the same while they sell Clio's. 
The people from Nikon have said not to expect anything Tomorrow, not because imbecile are going to say they will kill RED, but because it takes time. RED just released a 8k 120fps global shutter camera, vista vision camera. What do you think, they are selling Canon rebel 50, you think release cameras every six months.