odie

I think it was Fotokem or one of their competitors I think. We saved money by going with a cheaper session (first light rather than best light) and a cheaper delivery format is what I was referring to, lower quality processing and scan. We were basically grading proxies. They wanted $50k extra for a proper scan, which would have been worth it, but it wasn't in the budget and the look of the film suffered for it, though I think we did well with what we had.
The increase in budget for shooting film rather than video was between $100-$200k. I believe the budget for the feature was just under $1 million. I don't know more, I wasn't a producer on it, just worked in camera department.
That does seem like a very good price. But even at $200 for a roll of 16mm film and $200 for development and scan (lower than I've ever seen available, but consistent with what you suggest) that's $400 for ten minutes of footage (inevitably the ends don't get used, or it would be 11 minutes). At a very conservative shooting ratio of 15:1, a 100 minute feature would cost $60,000 extra at those very low rates (which I still have yet to find).
I agree, I have seen small features shot competently for under $500k and so $560k isn't that much more. But the extra costs in terms of support gear, monitoring, and lighting (500 ISO film is about as clean as 3200 ISO digital, you have a ton of over but your under is just dreadful) push things up much higher. I just can't figure out the math. Even if everyone is working for free, I can't imagine a budget under $200k for a 16mm feature.
I know the story about Primer, but that's sort of the extreme example of a 1:1 shooting ratio and shooting in someone's garage. 99% of stories won't work with those limitations and the budget was much higher than that once it was polished up for a salable deliverable.
What features have you shot on 16mm for under $5k? Were they small stories like that or were you able to scale up efficiently beyond that? Did you pay the crew? What gear did G&E gear and how big was the crew? I still can't do the math. 
I used to shoot a fair amount of 16mm (for student films and stuff, never professionally), and even back in those days when film was cheap it was still hundreds of dollars extra for a short exercise versus shooting digitally. 
Nevertheless, for the money, film is still a great deal and I like your idea of using a digital b camera sparingly. I still plan to shoot my next short on film, but I'm budgeting a few thousand dollars extra just for a 10-minute short and planning to shoot with a tiny tiny ratio.

The following conversation gave me pause and I am hoping to get a few questions answered by more knowledgeable individuals:
 
 
One of the topics discussed was how these DPs feel that are sort of forced to use digital and many long for the days of film.  In addition they seem to acknowledge the necessity to keep up with the 4K, 6K, and 8K race but that sometimes the preferable image is of a much lower resolution and they spend time trying to achieve that by softening the image up etc. as they (maybe Deakins) feel that the audience finds the optimal image to not be so "realistic".
 
I'm curious on what everyone's opinions are.  If one isn't doing paid work and 4K+ aren't demanded then you still get away with investing in a new product that is 1080P if the image is currently seen as not only acceptable but desirable?

yes..and it's really cheap (for a no budget filmmaker it's great) with short ends you can now film in 35mm with a super 16mm budget..
also Panavision has super deals on 35mm cameras..and sometimes will sponsor you .. 

Can you still buy short ends? That used to be a great way to save on film costs, of course you were limited to what stock they had available at the time. 

who did the scan on that film...?  Who was your DP?    If a lab does a bad scan (it's rare)..but they'll do it again for free.   200k was the budget of the completed movie?   the latest quote I got for two 400 rolls of 35mm and 3 rolls of super 16mm was 700 dollars for developing and top pro scan.  Just call one of the kodak labs...
 
if you're nervous start with one roll of film...it's cheap...you can make a full length movie with super 16mm for under 5 thousand

i have holes in my sneakers but bought a super 16mm camera and 5 rolls of kodak..(cheap but not that cheap)

i have holes in my sneakers but bought a super 16mm camera and 5 rolls of kodak..(cheap but not that cheap)

really great ...

short film with my Bolex. 
 

and a film at The Winter Efteling; 
 

I sold my A7s too 

forget the camera..I'm thirsty too...we want the soda

Super 16mm (Arri Sr 2)
thats what I'm doing

I would pick A ...and find another bird...(Panavision dolly in on a crane...I have a budget!!!)

I would pick A ...and find another bird...(Panavision dolly in on a crane...I have a budget!!!)

I would pick A ...and find another bird...(Panavision dolly in on a crane...I have a budget!!!)

I would pick A ...and find another bird...(Panavision dolly in on a crane...I have a budget!!!)

for film labs there is a lot of them around...in Europe...I like Kodak labs in Romania...
 
KODAK PROFESSIONAL: Pro Labs 

working with film almost every day on paid jobs...a great sense of art..savings on post...in control of final image = nirvana 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Cameras do matter. Deakins fought for the alexa on hail ceasar and the cohens insisted kodak film. Have you seen hail caesar? It looks amazing. The camera is as important as the lighting lenses color etc. A lot of top dps say the camera doesnt matter but of course it does or they would not be risking it all to shoot on film when digital is so much safer for a production.  How it renders motion and  sharpness and smoothness. The camera is really important. Everything is important.
And yes deakins could say he would shoot on an iphone because that's baller to say.  But how many top DPs have "slummed" it on shoots with less-than-good cameras for major feature work?  Pretty much no one except Rodrigo Prieto who likes the Sony F55 for night exteriors.  Pretty much every other DP I can think of only shoots Alexa or Red.

or get this...which is available now (around 1,000)..and with a roll of film no alexa post or rental required...
 

I agree as of February 2016. I'm starting to wonder though. Guardians Of The Galaxy 2 is shooting with the Weapon, and I know alot of big budget movies will follow suit. I think in a few years the hyper-realistic look will be accepted and requested. Of course there will be alot of people who are nostalgic and want the old film look. Most likely myself included. Curious to see what the "standard" will be in 2020.

I think its a bit of a generation thing.
A guy I have working with me is 10 years younger than me (im 33).
Both me and him are movie fans, we both saw H8 in 70mm.
Both of us use analog film for our stills. I use medium format and he shoots large format and is getting into wet prints.
We share similar tastes in other vintage stuff, we like the same movies, video games, etc.
But we differ on one subject. He loves the look of Loord of the rings, CGI, 48fps, sharp sharp images etc.
I like practical effects, film, 24p etc.

And when we argue about it, its clear to me that we simply don't see the same thing. When I point at the bear in the new dicaprio movie and say "look how fake" he just scratches his head. He has no idea what Im on about.
When I used Jurassic Park as an example of practical vs cgi, he thinks they look equally good.

He is simply used to it. That's what movies have looked like all his life. He doesn't remember the pre digital era.
Another example is dubbing. When Im in Germany I think, "how can they watch this, I mean its so badly done its comical?".
Then I ask a german friend, "What do you mean, its in perfect synk and the voice matches spot on, no one could ever tell the difference".
They are used to it.
Ok, totally off topic from the Weapon. But a thought
On topic,
It looked stellar but Im not blown away. URSA 4.6k, Dragon, Weapon, Tomato, Tomaato.
 

first prize winner at the CAMERAIMAGE Festival was a film shot on super 16mm...  (a real cost saver verse the recent 70mm Tarantino film!!!)
the art of cinematography  (in the tool bag)