marcuswolschon

Has anyone with a pre-production GH5 tested the new Bluetooth-LE +Wifi combination?

The GH4 already was a world cam, switchable between 25p and 30p.

But the European GH4 (not however the GH4R) is limited to 30min.

Comparing H.264 IPB (what people see every day) to H.264 All-I is hardly comparing apples to oranges.

6 minutes ago, Axel said:

On-topic again: what is all this stuff about in-camera-stabilization, Dual-IS and so forth? Yes, I understand that with the FoV of a 50mm on MFT it's more difficult to shoot handheld. But then, these techniques didn't exist before and people managed to hold their cameras steadily nonetheless. It's a matter of an ergonomic rig and training. No?

It's a problem that only came up when cameras got smaller and lighter.

They don't have a lot of inertia anymore and thus require an active effort to be keps steady,

8 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

I find it funny when people complain about All-i codecs being "inefficient". That's the whole point! Those "efficient" ipb codecs destroy motion. One of the best ways of getting around macroblocking from motion is to increase the bitrate and make the frames separately encoded. If that's inefficient then give me more of that.

Who says I'm complaining about it being inefficient?

I complain about it being either just 400Mbps or Panasonic for having chosen a 400Mbps All-I but no 300Mbps IPB along with it.

Panasonic is promoting it's 400Mbps=50MB/s All-I H.264 firmware update for the GH5 for some time in "summer". Maybe later. Who knows.

I just looked up what ProRes would have as a bitrate here.
After all ProRes was what people asked for. DNxHD would have been fine too if Panasonic didn't want to pay license fees to Apple.
Prores 422HQ (10Bit 4:2:2) for an UHD image at 25fps would be 734 Mbit/s=330 GB/h=92MB/s.

So my existing, external 10bit Recordings of the current GH4, done with an Atomos Ninja Flame are still at twice the bitrate compared to what Panasonic is promoting for the GH5 maybe at some point in summer?
Remember that H.264 in All-I mode is terribly inefficient because it doesn't use any P or B frames. These are what allows the usual, high H.264 compression ratios.

The existing Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-2 SD-cards I already use for FullHD raw-recording (1:3 lossless compression, 55MB/s) on both my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras offer up to 260MB/s write speed. (That's the maximum but shurely the minimum will not be below 100 here.)
Even the old Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-1 cards had 90MB/s.
And Panasonic seriously claims that it can't go faster then 50MB/s due to the SD cards being too slow?

While having 2 SD card slots that can operate in parallel?

400Mbps is just slightly better then Prores 422LT in terms of bitrate (360Mbps). It's seriously lower then ProRes 422 (489Mbps) and can't compare to the regular Prores 422HQ (not to mention Prores 4444 and 4444XQ as these are rarely used)

Of cause H.264 (Hi422P Intra profile) is a very different compression then ProRes but none of them perform any obvious miracles.

PS;

Obviously there is no or hardly any hardware acceleration for H.264 Hi422P Intra (10bit 4:2:2) as opposed to the usual 4:2:0 8bit.

(Thread regarding missing 10bit support in NVidia drivers although the hardware supports it.)

If you don't grade your footage, how do you get your thousands of hours of experience doing it?

There is a lot to be learned in grading your own footage, looking at the scopes, comparing and matching different shots made with different cameras, looking at gradients, noise and clipping...

5 minutes ago, josdr said:

Yes but does the python5000 have that cinematic feel that makes BM unique??

What?

It's a sensor. Not a magic wand. It reads light intensities into a readable matrix of addressable values.

4 hours ago, Tzedekh said:

I don't understand the point in implementing an HDR mode if it doesn't capture any more than the 12 stops achievable with conventional means. 

To display not REC.709 with a maximum 6 Stops but all 12 stops this camera is capable of on the HDR TV-Set without a super compressed gamma curve?

BTW, the human eye can aparently only see a range of 14 stops in a single image.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_dynamic_range

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

That's my understanding as well. Anyhow, I've been shooting Dual IS Mk 1 with the Nocticron and G85, and some think I used a tripod, so I wouldn't sweat it.

 

I don't think the GH5 will be capable of Dial IS MK 1. Only MK 2.

So you get just plain IBIS or plain Power OIS with the current 12-35 lens even with the Dual IS MK 1 firmware update.

Good points with the hot shoe.

Also the new accessory hat no Time code BNC connector anymore.

27 minutes ago, Vesku said:

Think about it.

I did.

Gain/Iso happens after light has been captured. So it has 0 effect on light.

14 minutes ago, Vesku said:

With iso100 and right exposure the camera gets more light to sensor than with higher isos.

What are you talking about?

Light is only influenced by aperture, shutter angle and ND.

ISO is otherwise known as gain and is an amplification factor between analog sensor response and A/D converter.

11 minutes ago, EspenB said:

If the crop is less than 2 it must be MAR sensor...

The GH2 HAS a multi aspect ratio sensor.

I can't wait to use all my Samyang Cine DS and Sigma ART series lenses with IBIS.

And to use controlled focus shifts on MFT and FT lenses.

Hopefully I can start them via the Wifi app, so I can combine that with slider- or jib- movements.

3 minutes ago, Stronz Vanderploeg said:

Any word on improved dynamic range or are we still looking at "12 stops" like the GH4?

 

 

The interview says "like the GH4" regarding dynamic range.

On 13.9.2016 at 11:25 AM, Flynn said:

The Pocket is in desperate need of a refresh. I don't know their sales figures, but I bet they've sold as many of the Pocket as they have every other camera they've made combined. 

I totally agree.

Perfect picture but with FullHD you can't win anymore in 2017.

I desperately hope for an URSA-Cacorder. Larger then the Pocket to include a regular cooling, larger batteries, XLR and maybe even SSDs or M.2 instead of SD-cards.

The GH5 with IBIS,internal 4:2:2 10Bit (in 150Mbps IPB or 400Mbps All-I) and Wifi remote control while in 10bit is currently stealing the show. This is 2017.

I'm using my Pockets for closeups. They perform great but I don't have a 4K or UHD image to crop+stabilize/track in post like with every other modern camera. So for wide/medium stage shots, run&gun, even documentary they have left the game a long time ago.

6 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Did you miss the 400mbps that is coming in summer ? Its going to be close to the quality of either ProResHQ or DNxHR.

I did not miss it. It's for ALL-I only.

As for no-recording while 10bit output is used: I have a written spec that says it. If I see them do that in the interview, I'll gladly stand corrected..

I'll watch the interview about H.264. Thanks for the pointer.

52 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

The reason for the delay is they are going to use the new H265 codec!!!

Here is from newsshooter:

I don't see anything mentioning H.265 there. Just plain MP4.

What I see is:

 * We still can't record DCI 4K in 25p or 30p (to have some horizontal wiggle room when delivering UHD)

* We still can't record anything internally when outputting 10Bit on the HDMI port. This likely also means still no Wifi remote control and likely no scopes when recording externally. (The missing Wifi really hurts.)

* All the nicer bitrates are for bandwidth-hungry All-I MP4 and regular IPB that makes efficient use of that bandwidth is crippled to 100/150Mbps. No ProRes or DNxHD that can be edited without transcoding unless you add a Shogun or Ninja Flame.

* no build in flash to carry it around and a "small" photo camera all these OTHER times.

On the plus side:

* screw-in HDMI cable holder is included

* better denoise and anti-rolling shutter by processing previous frames

* IBIS

* program 3 focus point and have smooth transitions in 5 speeds.

* more slow motion options

2 minutes ago, Cary Knoop said:

I think you are wrong. 

It surprises me, with a coding background you should readily understand that 10bit data requires 4 times as much storage as 8bit data. .

 

?????

10 bit require 2 bit more storage space then 8 bit and it can encode a value range that is 4 times the size.

Quote

Please acknowledge there there are multiple, orthogonal metrics that can be "better".

Noise is one of them.

Dynamic range is one of them.

Framerate is one of them.

Number of Colour and subsampling are some.

Codes and Bandwidth are some.

You are still  confusing a lot here.

Take a well lit scene with some shadowy parts.

The darkest 5% of the image will be noisy (unless you add more light or open the aperture or increase shutter angle and are thus able to reduce gain/ISO).

The brightest 1% has one or two colour channels clipping but not yet the third one.

Dynamic range tells you how dark the black (with details remaining) and how bright the white (without clipping) can be.

Going from 8 bit 4:2:2 to 10 bit 4:2:2 doesn't change any of that.

It DOES change that you suddenly can distinguish 3 additional tones for each of the 3 colour channels. (That's not 3*3*3 but 3*2^10 - 3*2^8 additional colours.)

* So a very gradual fog or sky will have less visible steps.

* You may get a much better green screen (although that's mostly by going from 8bit 4:2:0 to 10bit 4:2:2).

The darkest 5% of the image are still noisy. That doesn't change.

The brightest 1% still clip one or two colour channels.

What does change is that the 94% of the image that are well exposed suddenly resolve a lot more colours that have formerly been indistinguishable.

What does change is that any colour grading that expands a part of the brightness, saturation and/or tonal spectrum will have a lot more steps to work with and can thus be done more boldly without introducing ugly steps in gradients. This is important to a lot even when delivering the final result in 8bit 4:2:2 .

These people are already doing 10bit recording with the existing GH4/GH4R and they do it for very good reasons. So obviously it is important even without increasing dynamic range and/or decreasing thermal noise from what the GH4/GH4R offers. They just can't do it INSIDE the camera yet and have to use external recorders. Having a clean 4:2:2 10bit output was one of the major improvements of the GH4 and GH4R.

9 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

No that is definitely not true. 10bits per channel offer a much denser space that can improve color reproduction and tonal differences while getting rid of artifacts like banding. Especially v-log with its ~12bits of dynamic range will benefit tremendously with the 10bit internal codec. 

Look at BM cameras for example, much less dynamic range in many of their cameras but amazing colors & tonalities. 

Yes, 10 bit is VERY useful even without less noise for use in well lit environments.

(I'm using it regularly on the GH4 with external recorders and I'm not the only one. )

However PLEASE, never ever meassure dynamic range in bits.

You can use dB or EV but never bit. A bit is a unit of information. (Much like a "nat", but with a logarithm to the base of 2 and not e.)

Dynamic range is a physical range.

It has nothing to do with how many bits the ADC on the sensor provides between black and white and it has nothing to do with the bit-depth the codec or output reserves for storing that quantified reading.

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

So you think Panasonic has completely funded their own unique sensor? That would be a pretty expensive outlay if true. You could be right.

No, I'm just asking you how you could possibly have noticed that they are definately the same sensor.

Please explain how you found that out for a camera that doesn't publicly exit yet!

It may be that they are all of the current generation made by Sony but that doesn't make it the same sensor. It would just explain very similar specifications.

36 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You know I just noticed the New DJI x5s m4/3 Drone Camera just happens to have the same sensor!

How could you have possibly noticed that?

Nobody ever published the ID of the sensor model of the GH5.

Given the size of the order it's even possible to get modifications included or a different stepping for the same model.

7 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

 

On the other hand, 4:3 is not a sensor size but the sensor aspect ratio :-)

Yes, that's why I said 4/3" 4:3 as image circle and aspect ratio together define the size of a rectangular sensor.

Micro 4/3 is not a sensor size.

It's a lens mount.

4/3" is an image circle size.

4/3"  4:3 is a sensor size.