marcuswolschon

8 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

So, if they will add 100 bucks to the premium, you'll say NO to 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4K/60p for $1,500 or so because $1,600 would be too much, isn't it? ;-)

No, if they have a 30min limit I'll wait until they release a GH5R or skip the "5" generation.

If they don't include V-Log, I'll wait until they got pressured into including it right away.

I'll preorder the GH5 if and only if it has been no 30min limit and V-Log is included.

Then length of these newsletters Leica zooms is great but the aperture would be a massive step down from 2.8 on these long end.

It's not large enough for XLR, full-sized HDMI, (single-link) SDI, a DC-in (maybe TC-in) and enough space for a proper cooling, so IBIS in the flagship camera modell is possible. Yet it's way bulkier then the GH1/GH2 and the Blackmagic Pocket (that produces a far better image). I can't reach the WB, EC, ISO buttons easily with my small hands but I must admit that the 2 scroll wheels are an improvement in work-speed.

So you are arguing that because there are tasks where the form factor and ergonomics don't matter, that ergonomics don't matter at all? Just because I could hold any oddly shaped object for 1 minute, doesn't mean that that is a good shape for the object to have.

The photo camera form factor is not stable to hold for longer then it takes to make a photo and has little space for buttons and other elements to reach while you are not looking at the buttons but at the screen.

That I can get help from OIS and completely change the bad shape with a rig, doesn't make the original shape better.

What about having your hand at the side in a natural 40° angle? You strain your hand by gripping a vertical 90° object close to your eye.

What about using your eye as a default contact point? (not with a third party accessory)

What about not having the bulk weight of the lens in front of the pivot point that is your right hand?

if it would come to with a Digital Bolex style grip(with controls on your thumb) and viewfinder, I could live with that. It's a stable position that you can keep up for an hour. (in case the person you quickly grabbed your camera to record without any time for preparation just won't stop talking)

OIS/IBIS doesn't help against the camera getting heavy in your hand and parallax movement of the camera against anything that is close. It just keeps you pointed at the same object from a slightly different angle.

I too strongly prefer the old bodies.

I was able to get 3 bodies with 3 lenses accessible from the top of my shoulder bag.

12 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Strongly suspect that the massive majority of preferences for Canon's so called "ergonomics" is just to the *huge* number of ex (or current) Canon shooters There is nothing truly great about Canon's DSLR ergonomics for filming with

I feel that both DSLR and DSLMs form factors are just terrible for filming.

Nobody in their right mind would hold a camera outstretched with both hands to look at a screen attached to it's back. That's just what already existed from photos and has not been changed since.

The proper form factors that have been developed for video work are camcorders and shoulder cameras.

13 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Do you not own any lights? Besides, f/2 and ISO 3200 is enough for HFR in most reasonably lit areas, not just bright sunlight.

I don't shoot primarily documentary, but outside some fringe cases, it just doesn't seem necessary for 95% of users. That 5% might need a camera that shoots a clean 12,800, and they can buy A7S', but the rest of us really have no excuse beyond measurebating.

No I don't (other people provide that) and the rest of the audience would surely complain.

I don't think e.g. music performances are a fringe case. That's actually a common scenario from a garage band that wants a recording in a dark backstreet bar to a fan visiting a festival and catching some memories.

I also don't do slomo all the time or 24fps or Wifi remote control or foreign 30p but it's still an option that I'd pay for in a camera.

I don't like to be limited by my tools. Even if I end up using a feature just once a year, I still like to have when I need it.

26 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

THANK YOU, IronFilm. If I need more than ISO 3200 and a fast lens, I'm doing something wrong.

Or you could be recording a dark stage scene that is 50m away.

Or using the slow motion features in anything but bright sunlight.

A battery grip is nice but it means taking the GH4R/GH5 out of it's cage with the fixed HDMI cable. And frankly...the batteries in the GH4 last for ages.

More details on that XLR adaptor would be nice (how it's powered,... it doesn't seem to have a headphone-jack and I see no connection to the camera)

IBIS would have been great for use with manual cine lenses or manual, fast lenses behind a Metabones Speed Booster.

Let's see if some of the limitations of the GH4 are gone now.

* 30min european recording limit on non-R models

* V-log integrated by default

* larger HDMI port

* Wifi when doing 10bit or 50p

* real DCI 4K instead of UHD in 25p and 50p

* internal recording when doing 10bit HDMI output

* higher bitrates (forget about denoising when your shadows are made up of MPEG macro-blocks)

* a ready-to-edit codec

* push-to-AF and magnification while recording

* CinemaDNG for an UHD 25p photo burst mode that lasts more then 2 seconds would be great. Have raw recording even if it's without sound.

* hoping for scopes or a DC-in port that powers the camera and charges the battery would be unrealistic

Let's summarize the PIX media discussion:

buying media

Wow. even Amazon takes 3-4 days here and they are damn fast.

Fast enough to get spare media over night delivered into a hotel.

You seem to have a great postal infrastructure where you live.

(Sadly it's a maze of companies over here with only DHL doing a good job unless someone confuses DHL express for DHL again, then it's a nightmare.)

The 1TB and 500GB drives I could find (EVO, >350eur) over here are more then twice the price of Sandisk SATA drives (200eur)

and only by dealers that sell via Amazon, shipped by the dealer (so probably 2 weeks to be safe).

Plus I need to have enough spare "SpeedDrive" caddies.

renting media

Obviously I can't rent mSata or SpeedDrives in any of the rental houses I checked whereas I can (and do) rent 480GB SATA drives everywhere.

(However no larger drives then 480GB but for ProRes that's okay.)

renting entire recorders

Somehow the rental prices for 4K recorders of all brands are through the roof.

Who whould rent a recorder for 70eur/day + taxes when offered an entire camera BMPC4K body for less then half as much in the same rental house?

59 minutes ago, bunk said:

They use standard m sata solid-state-drives. Atleast my pix E5H does.

But standard drives are not mSATA but SATA.

Can you go into any electronics store in a medium sized city and get a 480 or 960GB one on short notice?

1 hour ago, ArturoMarinho said:

what about VideoDevices PIX E series? BM and CD aren´t full recorder display options. I would like to hear a wider point of view in regard critical gear

I had a good look at them (someone else was using a Pix E5 on a GH4 shoot) and the custom caddies with M.2 SSDs drives may be practical due to their integrated USB3 port but you can't get these media anywhere.

The firmware has aparently learned a great deal since version 1.

2.5" SATA SSD drives and SD cards you can get on short notice but M.2 ? And additional caddies? (The Samurai caddies are just a piece of plastic and are sold in units of 5.)

Of cause in V-Log.

Default profile in 8bit MPEG and external 10Bit ProRes 422HQ in V-Log

unless it's a scene with very little contrast where the latitute of V-Log is not needed at all.

OR if you need the Wifi remote control and thus accept to be limited to 8Bit external recording.

I'd love the option of recording either raw externally or record the HDMI/SDI signal uncompressed/lossless compressed but that doesn't happen with cameras in my price and weight/size range.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

To be honest even with 10bit YUV I can't tell much difference in the grade to 8bit.

RAW or RGB is where it's at

There are telltale situations where you can tell.

Fog is a prime example but there are others.

Right, I didn't think about other cameras outputing 8bit.

(Only using Blackmagic Pocket and GH4R myself.)

45 minutes ago, samuel.cabral said:

Sorry for my dumb question... but are the prores files MUCH better for grading compared to the h265 on NX1?

10 bit -> 4x as many color shades to work with

no MPEG macro blocks -> fine noise to leave as film grain or to easily remove without visible artifacts

no GOP -> playing backwards and fast forwarding don't require more then a single frame to be rendered, also much faster rendering times for any kind of image modification (color correction, effects, compositing, ...)

->smooth highlight rolloffs/skies/fog

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Are you using Canon DSLR batteries on your Flame?

How's the build quality?

One thing I love about the Odyssey 7Q+ is the magnesium chassis... very cleanly designed, thin, light. The Shogun had open seals, vents, creaky plastic.

Atomos uses Sony NP-F batteries or D-Tap or DC-In.

My Shogun has an Aluminium Cage. They are VERY cheap to have. It also has locks for the HDMI ports and an extremely stiurdy protection for the XLR in+out and power port.

The Flame/Inferno are supposed to have a better case to not need such a thing.

The Chris: You left out LUTs for display+output (VERY Handy for a GH4 with V-Log) and that the display is and can be calibrated.

I'm planning to use mine as a mobile grading monitor when traveling with a calibratable 17" 10-bit LCD is inpractical.

If you are into cheap media for long sessions... try beating a 960GB Sandisk for about 200eur in SD-cards for 4K or gigantic mechanical HDDs for FullHD.

If you want to work fast...why copy that SD-card? The Atomos is SATA, just edit from it right away.

I'm looking forward to upgrade to a Shogun Flame or Inferno at some point.

3 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

No idea what you're on about.

In terms of price, capacity, and speed, SSDs are the best media available. Plus the enclosures Video Devices use double as USB 3.0 drives, which makes offloading fast and painless.

I mean:

Where do you rent an additional of 2x960GB in M.2 (assuming you have spare caddies)  in a major city?

you get 2.5" SSDs everywhere but you don't get these M.2 SSDs the Pix use at any rental house or corner electronics shop.

Why offload?

I attach my Atomos drives into an enclosure for multiple drives and work from them. Then make a backup when I'm done and have delivered a teaser/preview/daily.

the pix e5   may be a good recorder but the media they use is not much better then SD cards.

you get 2.5" SSDs anywhere and can use HDDs for fullhd but where do you get enough m.2 for a long night of shooting?

try a bicycle bag.

It has a clear top (for a paper map)
and with straps you can wear it in front of you.

great price.

Even if it's limited to FullHD with 3G instead of 6G. (that would be 85usd for a Blackmagic Mini Converter)

do you knowledge if they have similar affordable quad link sdi to sdi converters (for the GH4 YAGH).

26 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

And if you need SDI, you can always hook up BM's new HDMI - SDI adapter to your Ninja Assassin.

The cheap ones are FullHD only.

The quad-1.5G that is compatible with the GH4 YAGH is >500€ + tax and doesn't run on batteries like my Atomos H2S (sits between an NP-F battery and any other device that needs such batteries but is limited to FullHD 24/25/30fps).

8 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I can keep the Atomos Samurai Blade for when I want smaller size, and use this when I want a bigger monitor or I want 60fps slow motion. 
 

I didn't notice it's bigger.

That's indeed a good point for focusing.

Thanks! Sadly than means choosing between focus and color.

15 hours ago, jpb said:

mirrorless w/Internal 10 bits recording capabilities ? not for a while ! too much heat and battery consumption.
At that price this BMD 10bit recorder/monitor really opens up the doors to a color finesse world
for  mirrorless cameras.

 

mirrorless with internal 10bit? too hot?

How about a Blackmagic pocket cinema camera.

Internal raw. Yes it does get hot but it stays working for hours and hours of continuous recording here.

I'm using a 1100eur+sales tax Atomos Ninja Assassin for 4K, Samurai Blade and now also a cheap Ninja 2 for BMPCC. Basically to not have to swap Dozent of SD cards while running a recording all the time.

2 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Not a competitor with the Ninja Assassin, as it has SDI. 
 

oh it is a competition for all the people who don't need sdi. There is no cheaper version without SDI after all.

Most DSLM/DSLR cameras have no SDI to use.