New L-Mount Lumix (cinema?) Camera

[berkenboom]

21 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

If you have access to the white papers then share them here.

or wait untill tomorrow, when its the official release.

[MrSMW]

55 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Dual native ISO100/800

Is that correct?

If so, doesn’t interest me and much prefer my 640/4000 on the S5ii etc. 

The new camera at least has FF 60p instead of the crop and yes, I’d like that, but then again, I really like my 6k 30p OG which I have already.

 

[MurtlandPhoto]

13 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Is that correct?

If so, doesn’t interest me and much prefer my 640/4000 on the S5ii etc. 

The new camera at least has FF 60p instead of the crop and yes, I’d like that, but then again, I really like my 6k 30p OG which I have already.

 

I'm seeing folks on other forums say in VLOG it's 640/5000

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, ND64 said:

So here is the deal:

 

15-stop dynamic range V-LOG (dynamic range enhancement mode on)

14+ stops dynamic range V-LOG (dynamic range enhancement mode off)

24M new sensor

Full frame 6K30p OG, 5.9K60p 17:9, 5.1K60p 3:2, 4.8K60p 4:3, 4K120p 16:9/17:9, FHD240p

APS-C 3.3K 120p 4:3, 4K120p 16:9/17:9, FHD240p

S&Q 6K 60fps, 4K 17:9 75fps, 4K 2.4:1 120fps, FHD 240fpsFF

120Hz 5.76 million dot EVF

779-point phase focus

Dual native ISO100/800

Five-axis image stabilization with 8 stops in the center and 7 stops in the periphery

1/8000s mechanical shutter

70fps continuous shooting with electronic shutter, 10fps mechanical shutter

I think I fell asleep reading that.

It'll be interesting to see if having the first native ISO at 100 juices the tested DR numbers a bit, but as MrSMW said, having the second native ISO as low as 800 is both weird and not what a lot of people are going to want.  That seems to be dooming the camera to shitty low-light performance, either because of a ton of noise or because the camera eats the noise internally and there's no detail (and that's coming from the owner of at least one camera with a single native ISO of 800!).

(Edit: Just saw MurtlandPhoto's response and 640/5000 would be a lot more appropriate/useful!)

Otherwise, not a single one of those specs really stands out from a bunch of cameras that are already on the market.  The fact that the 4kp120 options are only in APS-C mode or 2.4:1 is even a bit sad, given that the Z8 and R5 II can do it in 16:9 and even the ZV-E1 can do it with only a small (10%?  Something like that) crop.

This seems to be another entry in the "if you already have a big investment in L-mount lenses, maybe you don't have to sell them, but it's not going to bring you into the system" category.

[ND64]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

This seems to be another entry in the "if you already have a big investment in L-mount lenses, maybe you don't have to sell them, but it's not going to bring you into the system" category.

Its amazing that this situation doesn't change a bit with every new product announcement.

[MrSMW]

It’s all just a bit, well to be blunt, a bit fucking odd, what is going on on Planet Lumix right now.

[Thpriest]

Looking at the rumours on other sites I think tomorrow might be a lot more positive than some think.

[eatstoomuchjam]

9 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Looking at the rumours on other sites I think tomorrow might be a lot more positive than some think.

Which sites?  The stuff I see on l-rumors.com basically matches up to what's been posted here - an incredibly mediocre camera which, if the price rumors are true, will not be at an extremely competitive price.

[Thpriest]

12 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Which sites?  The stuff I see on l-rumors.com basically matches up to what's been posted here - an incredibly mediocre camera which, if the price rumors are true, will not be at an extremely competitive price.

In the comments there are some links etc. Buuuuut, it all seems to have been translated from Chinese so there is probably a lot of room for error!

[Andrew Reid]

38 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Which sites?  The stuff I see on l-rumors.com basically matches up to what's been posted here - an incredibly mediocre camera which, if the price rumors are true, will not be at an extremely competitive price.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/full-panasonic-s1-ii-and-s1-iie-specs-leak-as-usual-all-18-pages-of-it/

Mediocre is the word...

So it's just an S5 II with a faster sensor then...

A mediocre slightly unergonomic mid-range body that feels and looks like it should cost £1500.

A high-end price £3500

Also very high-end lens pricing

No eND.

No ND of any description.

I also think that the lack of proprietary raw format aka Canon Raw, N-RAW, Redcode, BRAW is holding Panasonic back. Get in there with your own codec my dear. Oh, wait, they didn't buy RED so have lost that game already.

I do have a soft spot for the overall feature-set though...

The wide-aspect ratios in both video (2.4:1) and for stills.

The dual dynamic range modes and anamorphic.

Open gate and stuff.

Real-time LUTs.

But it's in such a badly marketed uninspired package, which is a real shame as I am passionate about Panasonic and their remaining unique features.

[berkenboom]

1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

Looking at the rumours on other sites I think tomorrow might be a lot more positive than some think.

Maybe the camera itself is a lot better then the doom and gloom forums suggest,
However, I just cant see the the suggested current price point being "reasonable"

The market has changed, the first EOS R and Nikon Z were not feature rich, I think they wanted to protect the dlsr market.

Nowadays however, why buys an dslr?  Almost everybody I know shoots mirrorless, and Canon Nikon and Sony make great camera's, for competitive prices. Its like Panasonic expects people to pay a hefty premium for features that "could have been a firmware upgrade"

Maybe thats a bit of a hyperbole, and that Panasonic also innovated with hardware, but my point still stands: if features like arri log, luts, shutter angle, etc, are not commonly found on other brands, then why are those still selling like hot cakes?
 

[eatstoomuchjam]

17 minutes ago, berkenboom said:

Maybe the camera itself is a lot better then the doom and gloom forums suggest,

To be clear, the specs of the camera, as understood from leaks, are fine.  They're not bad and they're not doom and gloom.  They're just...  not great and they're mostly not too exciting.  Put the spec sheet for this camera against the spec sheets for most other cameras in the same price range and reactions will generally range from "Oh, OK" to "Well, that's alright."  That's the real problem.  There's nothing in that spec sheet that makes people want to sell their Sony to move to Panasonic.  There's nothing in that spec sheet that makes people want to sell their Canon and jump to Panasonic.  There's nothing... etc Nikon ... etc.

 

[Andrew Reid]

[Andrew Reid]

https://m.weibo.cn/status/5165620169805297#&gid=1&pid=1

[Davide DB]

That's quite a mess of resolutions!

 

Edit: found

How can I tell which ones are uncropped, meaning which of these can I still trust what's written on the lens?

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, berkenboom said:

Maybe the camera itself is a lot better then the doom and gloom forums suggest

That in itself is already another notch in the belt of marketing failure.

The anticipation should be buzzing not moaning. It’s called hype and it’s up to a company and their marketing department to create that.

Some would argue that in this day and age, it’s influencers that create hype and to an extent that is true, but my point is, as a company, you need to get them onboard from the start and the start is A. creating a genuinely great product and then B. getting that info out there.

Panasonic Lumix don’t seem to be very good at playing that game and it’s almost as if they are not even aware that the game even exists.

You add in the pricing and it suggests that whoever determines these things, lives in a bubble that is not quite reality.

However, if I understand the spec sheet leak, the headline is 6k 60p Open Gate?

That would/will indeed be something.

Not ‘something enough’ to make me buy the thing at by the sounds of it, €4000, but at least something.

For €4k I’d want an FX3 style body and the next gen S1H with all of the previous build quality and like @Andrew Reid suggests, the top LCD screen just because it is cool as fuck. 

The business/financial decision for me is purely:

A. Is it more suited for my needs than my principal run & gun unit, my S9? God no, not even close. I would prefer to have full frame 6k 60p open gate over the 30p I currently have, but the compromises I’d need to make would be overwhelming detrimental.

B. For my other needs, a pair of static’s, does the new camera have any merit over a pair of new or used S5ii’s? Again, nope.

Is it therefore a failure as a new release camera? Time will tell, but for me personally it is at least a missed opportunity.

[Simon Young]

And not a single Word on an OLPF in the white papers. Probably saving that for the S1Hii coming in a decade.

[ND64]

Price will be probably lower. This $3500 is likely post-crazy-tariffs calculation and they would revise that, given the newly released tariff numbers. 

[Thpriest]

1 minute ago, ND64 said:

Price will be probably lower. This $3500 is likely post-crazy-tariffs calculation and they would revise that, given the newly released tariff numbers. 

Hopefully because price is key (although I'm not sure if they raised the price in the EU etc as well). If we are talking 300€ cheaper than the original quotes, so 2500€ and 3200€, then it becomes quite interesting.

[newfoundmass]

$3500 is a lot to ask for this camera. I really don't see a ton of reasons to go with it over the S5ii/X. I don't think it's a bad release, but that's not a very competitive price point. 

Still, I'd like to hear from folks who've used it once it hits real users hands.