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Canon XC10 4K camcorder


Andrew Reid
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A XC10 + Shogun test done by a fellow named Norbert Bielan. 

He writes, 

"I went to the beach/park (where I like to test cams) this evening after I got the Canon XC10. I used the Atomos Shogun with it and only recorded with a few different LUTs baked into the image. The URSA has really nice ProRes (Video) that just looks lovely for clients who would like a finished look, and I was hoping to get something similar from the combo above.

I can't wait to shoot more stuff and grade it. These images are just straight off the SSD.

(One mistake I made for a few shots is using a variable ND over a few shots that already had internal ND on.)"

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A XC10 + Shogun test done by a fellow named Norbert Bielan. 

He writes, 

"I went to the beach/park (where I like to test cams) this evening after I got the Canon XC10. I used the Atomos Shogun with it and only recorded with a few different LUTs baked into the image. The URSA has really nice ProRes (Video) that just looks lovely for clients who would like a finished look, and I was hoping to get something similar from the combo above.

I can't wait to shoot more stuff and grade it. These images are just straight off the SSD.

(One mistake I made for a few shots is using a variable ND over a few shots that already had internal ND on.)"

Looks great, I love the Technicolor blues. 

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The video explains it was a straight LUT application only with no other grading.

You can slap a REC.709 LUT on Alexa or Blackmagic footage and get good-looking highlights. Here, I see ugly color fringing around clippy highlights. That's not to say the camera sucks at highlights in every situation--it might, but I don't know--just that this example did not have pleasing highlight rendition. 

A simple Lum vs Sat adjustment to desaturate the highlights would be a great start.

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This camera, like most Canon products, is clearly more than the sum of its spec sheet. The image is cinematic as hell. 

You are responding to Pavlovian conditioning. Because so much stuff is shot in Canon cameras, you came to believe that is what it "should" look like.

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You are responding to Pavlovian conditioning. Because so much stuff is shot in Canon cameras, you came to believe that is what it "should" look like.

No we also watch a lot of Sony/panasonic/olympus/everything footage, in fact much more than Canon nowadays. Least footage I actually watched in minutes count is 65mm film and Arri Alexa and 1DC vs those camera, but I know what a pleasing image looks. It can actually be broken down into 100% technical data and compared objectively in a lab too. Pure facts. 

With a good colourist, I see people who are taking in GH4 footage and actually turning them into very very Canon-like colours and gamma and skin and saturation, it can be done by a careful educated colourist (not me!) so I stay away from the first day. Andrew's latest LUTs/presets seem to make it much easier to get that very subtle difference that makes Canon pleasing (colour/gamma) in post with the GH4 and NX1. The examples look really promising. Also one user introduced me to a LUT workflow that transforms GH4 images to very pleasing ones (with an Alexa Rec.709 LUT - Topic under the name of something like ''I found a fix for GH4 colours''. 

3D LUTs have a very high potential in replicating colour science in post, I wonder how the C300II internal 3D LUTs made to match the Alexa and F55 look like, Alexa colours or close or not at all. 

 

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A XC10 + Shogun test done by a fellow named Norbert Bielan. 

 

I doubt that this example actually presents the XC10 in the best light. To be honest with you, this video makes the camera look more like a GH4 (with a profile right out of the box). It doesn't have the "hard" look  at all in any of the profiles.

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A XC10 + Shogun test done by a fellow named Norbert Bielan. 

He writes, 

"I went to the beach/park (where I like to test cams) this evening after I got the Canon XC10. I used the Atomos Shogun with it and only recorded with a few different LUTs baked into the image. The URSA has really nice ProRes (Video) that just looks lovely for clients who would like a finished look, and I was hoping to get something similar from the combo above.

I can't wait to shoot more stuff and grade it. These images are just straight off the SSD.

(One mistake I made for a few shots is using a variable ND over a few shots that already had internal ND on.)"

Yup very GH4-y image. I don't like colours or sharpness at all, looks something like Canon Standars PS + high saturation.. Matt examples show a way better image. 

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Yeah Im also pleasantly surprised.I didn't know what to think in the beginning but when it got so much hate online I got interested. Mostly because when a big company with experts does something that the brain trust online doesn't like, it usually means they have thought in a new direction.

No aliasing so far for me.

Interesting take. When it comes to tech reviews, I usually trust the reviewers, not the company. But I live in Vietnam, where 99.9% of shooters use Canon, so I feel a little like I'm the one thinking out of the box... Lots of big companies with 'experts' produce garbage.

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Interesting take. When it comes to tech reviews, I usually trust the reviewers, not the company. But I live in Vietnam, where 99.9% of shooters use Canon, so I feel a little like I'm the one thinking out of the box... Lots of big companies with 'experts' produce garbage.

Well, the "reviewers" dismissed the Canon C300 and C100 those became the two dominating cameras of the decade and the by far most rented.

Most reviews I see of it misses the point imo. They keep comparing it to Dslrs when it imo is a competitor to the XA20, XF100, AX100 and so on.

Another camera that gets no love but I would seriously pre-order if the Camcorder Tax gets removed (it's being discussed) is the DVX200.

I see almost nothing to complain about with that thing. 

 

 

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Classy.

yeah, well the "you only like something because you like it argument" deserves no serious discussion imo.

It's like saying I only enjoy watching "Where Eagles Dare" because I enjoyed it as a kid.

I enjoy it for the action, actors, cinematography, story etc.

And that someone that doesn't know me, have never met me to think they have some sort of magical power to read my mind and dismiss my opinion just to feel secure about some stupid camera they bought.... Classy indeed :)

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yeah, well the "you only like something because you like it argument" deserves no serious discussion imo.

It's like saying I only enjoy watching "Where Eagles Dare" because I enjoyed it as a kid.

I enjoy it for the action, actors, cinematography, story etc.

And that someone that doesn't know me, have never met me to think they have some sort of magical power to read my mind and dismiss my opinion just to feel secure about some stupid camera they bought.... Classy indeed :)

I didn't say that, and I think you're taking the comment that did a little hard. It's interesting to deconstruct whether Canon color looks good to us because it's actually accurate (no) or pleasing (definitely), or because we got accustomed to it during the years where they were the only good option. You could make a similar argument for 24p and long focal lengths on close-ups. 

Maybe it's because I started off as a critic, but personally, I put a lot of importance in understanding why I like something, not just whether I do or not. Art Adams' articles on Canon color helped sort a lot of it out, but I still find the very emotional responses to critiquing Canon color fascinating. I wonder sometimes if we'd feel the same way about Nikon's color science if they'd kicked off the HDSLR market first. I wonder sometimes how much of this is cultural. We in the west tend to prefer tanned women and warm skintones, whereas in Japan, white is beautiful. They prefer cool tones and pale faces (this was the Kodak vs. Fuji dichotomy back in the day). I wonder whether Canon's lack of accuracy in reds and greens (in C-LOG and WDR) ever bother the average Canon user, whether they don't notice, or whether they've just learned to embrace it. And sometimes, I wonder why, even though I notice the creative hue shifts and somewhat Crayola rendering, Canon color gives me this feeling like slipping into an old comfortable glove whenever I see it done well. 

There are no right or wrong answers here. At least, not yet. So it's important to come at these issues with a sense of academia, passionate as we may be about our position. Savvy? 

(For your perusal, links to those Art Adams articles: 


http://www.provideocoalition.com/color-matching-a-canon-c300-to-an-arri-alexa
http://www.provideocoalition.com/cameras_more_thoughts_on_canons_color_science_this_time_with_pictures
http://www.provideocoalition.com/canon_c300_trimming_white_balance_plus_a_look_at_daylight_vs-_tungsten_colo
http://www.dvinfo.net/article/optical-science/a-short-history-of-camera-color.html

That last one is one of my favorite camera articles. Art has forgotten more about color science than I'll ever know.)

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There are no right or wrong answers here. At least, not yet.
 

And there never will. My advice, don't be to passionate about something that you forget wats most important. 

People are emotional driven beeings without any rime or reason.  He who claims to be rational is a lier.

My job involves trying to understand people and to pinpoint what makes them tick. Then trying to get them to act according to my employers needs. "get" them, not "make" them. Because we can't change their opinions and feelings, just their perception.

Trying to force opinion just leads to defensiveness.  

End of OT,

More XC10 footage coming soon. Did some lowlight shooting tonight.

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Sometimes I wonder if it's possible for me to be more patronizing than this online

I wonder

Sorry! Not my intention at all. I just meant that the specific ways in which Canon color are inaccurate are designed to be an insta-pleaser, like the Hollywood orange and teal look, and I haven't seen a lot of people comment on those specifics in this or any other gear forum. It makes me wonder how much people are actually analyzing why it's pleasing, not whether they're smart enough or anything. I'd have no idea if it weren't for Art Adams. 

People are emotional driven beeings without any rime or reason.  He who claims to be rational is a lier.

No one's completely objective, but anyone can employ rational thought to work through an issue. And emotions have a rhyme and a reason, physiologically and psychologically. Playing with people's emotions, after all, is part of our jobs as filmmakers. 
 

Trying to force opinion just leads to defensiveness.  

Indeed. You present an alternate viewpoint as clearly and respectfully as you can, then you accept and respect that the other person may disagree. Even opposing viewpoints can teach us something, so it's best to keep our ears and our minds open.

More XC10 footage coming soon. Did some lowlight shooting tonight.

Ooh, that should be interesting. The XC10 low light samples I've seen thus far have been surprisingly good. 

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