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Andrew Reid

Canon XC10 4K camcorder

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Im not waiting on Canon their tech support seems very dismissive of the problem.They would like me to send my unit in but my gut is telling me the only real solution is to  just upgrade to the xc15 and avoid the drama. I see our tests are catching on with other filmmakers so its only a matter of time before they have to address it. I love the handling of the camera so if I must then I am going to upgrade it to an xc15.

The other option is to wait a month or so in hopes that people start bombarding the web with these high iso tests 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

For documenting stuff the way youre talking about the DAF really comes into its own. Stick the very decent Canon 18-135mm STM on a DAF enabled Cinema camera and you've got a low light XC10 with pro audio, shallower DOF and controls where you need them. I have a C100 MkII and personally I think it's the best option now as you get 60p, better low light, better colour than C300 yet it's smaller. Stick a Ninja Star on if you need the C300s intraframe 422 image but for what you're describing you don't. 

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1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

They told me this last week:

"We have passed your request onto our European Product Specialists for further investigation and they will analyse the video files you provided to see if there is an issue.

We will contact you again shortly after the video has been analysed."

So I'm expecting feedback on this from Canon. I'll be shocked if they say there isn't a problem. We think the XC15 is clean, from Tom's footage, so I believe the problem is fixable - isn't the XC15 essentially an XC10 with slightly different firmware?

I think they may have known about the issue and fixed it with an "update" kinda like the sneaky shit Sony did with the a6500. The most i'll do is wait a month or so and see what happens. So far I've been working on ways to avoid scenarios that exaggerate the ghosting/noise reduction issue. I like the results thus far

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So, @kidzrevil et al - inspired by recent chat here I'm thinking I'm going to buy a Black Pro Mist 2 or 3 and an Ultra Con 3, with a view to sending one of them back, probably. I've chosen the two because their seem to be 2 schools of thought about the best route to getting this look we're all crazy about - would you say these are the right two filters to start with?

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3 is the highest I'd go with the UltraCon. Personally I think 2 is the best balance but what's right depends on focal length quite a bit and the XC10 has quite a range to choose from! 

Note that the HDTVFX filter is simply an UltraCon and Digital Diffusion added together. The UltraCon doesn't diffuse at all so if you want to take a little of the digital look off the XC10 the HDTVFX is a good choice as you get the contrast reduction too. 

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4 hours ago, Amook said:

I've already contacted then and sent samples showing the ghosting. At first they said they weren't aware of the problem and then after seeing a couple examples said they would pass it along to the engineering program. That was a week ago so haven't heard anything back. I know they are well aware of the issue as well as the thread on this website. I don't have huge expectations I'd like to be able to confidently shoot people at 1600iso.  

same. I shot this at 1000 iso and voila. Ghosting. Its not as noticeable shooting at 1/40 shutter speed because of the motion blur. I may even goo a little lower than that just to hide it. I rather have rollling shutter than this ridiculous afterimaging when panning with a camera designed to be hand held

afterimage3.jpg

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16 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

 this ridiculous afterimaging when panning with a camera designed to be hand held

 

- my emphasis. I agree 100% @kidzrevil. Also when shooting at ISO 1000 in a camera which Canon says offers..

image.jpg

Anyway, back to some more testing. This time - what is the difference between high and low bitrate 4K, when the final delivery is downsized to HD:

 

bitrate.jpg

The higher bitrate is a BIT better in this stress test. However, for me I think I'd be happy to shoot at the lower in order to get more shooting time per card. Or if you're shooting at 305 and you're worried that you're gonna run out of space, switch to 200 to extend your recording time.

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On a different note, has anyone tested the MP4 option? I believe it was added in the firmware release but I haven't messed with it. Canon has that G40 camcorder that has similar properties to the XC10, minus the 4K and C-Log, etc... But it shoots in either MP4 or avchd... Just curious if the MP4 from the xc10 would be a representation of what that camcorder can do. 

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

On a different note, has anyone tested the MP4 option? I believe it was added in the firmware release but I haven't messed with it. Canon has that G40 camcorder that has similar properties to the XC10, minus the 4K and C-Log, etc... But it shoots in either MP4 or avchd... Just curious if the MP4 from the xc10 would be a representation of what that camcorder can do. 

I am giving the xc10 another shot today. Amazing camera but the in camera NR or whatever's going on Is causing after imaging from up to 3 frames prior. Idk whats going on but im at a total of 3 underwhelming shoots using this camera. The NX1 hasn't let me down yet & I am considering getting one with the 16-50mm S or a GH4 with OIS. Definitely no longer taking Mr.Reid's word for what makes a good camera.

MP4 works the same as MXF from what i see @mercer

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Hmm...I wonder if it is not fully clearing the sensor pixels after each exposure, so partial data from the previous exposure is still there. Something like that would be a hardware problem.

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20 minutes ago, tugela said:

Hmm...I wonder if it is not fully clearing the sensor pixels after each exposure, so partial data from the previous exposure is still there. Something like that would be a hardware problem.

Is the camera worth sticking around to figure that out is the question. I now see the significance of the release of the xc15. It fixes the issues of the xc10

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23 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Is the camera worth sticking around to figure that out is the question. I now see the significance of the release of the xc15. It fixes the issues of the xc10

If it's possible that it's a hardware problem, then I would send it in to Canon. It seems we all got ours around the same time. So maybe they just had a bad batch. On that note, I am contemplating selling mine, not due to this issue though. But it's a thought I just had this morning so I am still wildly unsure.

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If it is hardware, they should be able to fix it by replacing the faulty components. It would be nice if it were a hardware problem that only affects our units. But we've yet to see output from a unit that doesn't have it. Otherwise I would've sent mine in last week . 

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24 minutes ago, mercer said:

If it's possible that it's a hardware problem, then I would send it in to Canon. It seems we all got ours around the same time. So maybe they just had a bad batch. On that note, I am contemplating selling mine, not due to this issue though. But it's a thought I just had this morning so I am still wildly unsure.

Yeah the only options on the table for me is the upcoming olympus,the nx1 ONLY with the 16-50 & an a7sii. Im only looking at these cameras because in body stabilization is critical to my work being that i am a handheld shooter. Really wish fuji had ibis

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14 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Yeah the only options on the table for me is the upcoming olympus,the nx1 ONLY with the 16-50 & an a7sii. Im only looking at these cameras because in body stabilization is critical to my work being that i am a handheld shooter. Really wish fuji had ibis

The GX85 has pretty good IBIS and for the price you could wait out the canon while shooting with that. 

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6 minutes ago, mercer said:

The GX85 has pretty good IBIS and for the price you could wait out the canon while shooting with that. 

You think this grip would work on it? 

IMG_7691.PNG

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17 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

You think this grip would work on it? 

IMG_7691.PNG

That's for the G85, I was talking about the GX85. I have never used the G85, but there is a post about it on the forum as I think it was just released. 

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There is another topic here about issues of the Panasonic body and lens stabilizer.

Have you not have your NX1 anymore Kidz? The S is an amazing lens, I haven't test it's stabilizing abilities yet (there is dual IS too but I have never used DIS, ever), but the optical qualities of the lens will probably please you.

I still believe that a C100ii with the 18-135STM is the best run n gun system these days, but I am closely follow these small Canon cameras!

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