GoPro Hero12

[markr041]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Regarding the softness you experienced, is it linked to the Log profile perhaps?

The reason I suggest this is that I've found the same thing on the XC10 (which has it when shooting C-Log in 8-bit) so if the GoPro is shooting log in 10-bit vs non-log in 10-bit then that might be flatter and what you're seeing.  Interestingly the bitrate didn't matter with that because the XC10 was in the 300Mbps mode, but still suffered from the quantisation.

Maybe try a few test shots in the different colour profiles and see what differences there are between them.

I think that's a good idea.

[markr041]

Meanwhile here is a video I shot with the Hero 11, with exactly the same settings (5.3K 60P, 10bit color, AWB, 180 Mbps, sharpness low) except I used the Flat profile, not the G-Log (since there was none). This light was lower, and noise reduction was turned off but yet the video appears to have little noise and to have higher resolution:

I was happy with the result. I am not happy with the Hero 12 G-Log result.

[Emanuel]

I am a bit lost here... What lack of high resolution you find there? Softness is not absence of resolution at all! :- )

[markr041]

And now, G-Log and Native WB Color Using the GoPro LUT for that setting (Native is the widest color gamut of the GoPro sensor).

The LUT is not a simple transform - apply and you are don. I had to much around with enormous changes in luma, contrast. I did not touch the color.

Here is what an ungraded Native color clip in G-Log looks like:

And here is wha the clip looks like after applying the GoPro LUT and fixing it:

[Emanuel]

What's wrong with the resolution right there? I don't understand... Really.

:- )

[markr041]

Noise reduction OFF. Better.

 

[Davide DB]

@markr041 how does a battery last? 

It is true that it's doubled from GP11?

[ntblowz]

17 hours ago, Davide DB said:

@markr041 how does a battery last? 

It is true that it's doubled from GP11?

From petapixel it more like 10-15% better

[Davide DB]

6 hours ago, ntblowz said:

From petapixel it more like 10-15% better

I'll stick with the 11s then. 

Thanks

[gt3rs]

It seems really only minor updates with the only stand out improvement the Max Mod 2.0 that let you use shoot in 4k.....

[Davide DB]

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

It seems really only minor updates with the only stand out improvement the Max Mod 2.0 that let you use shoot in 4k.....

Yes, a robbery indeed. it could have been a simple FW update.
I'm using several GP11 for scientific diving and an improved (real) battery duration would be nice. 10-15% doesn't worth it.

[markr041]

21 hours ago, ntblowz said:

From petapixel it more like 10-15% better

I am sorry, but where exactly did you get that info? I went to the PetaPixel review of the Hero 12. Here is a direct quote:

"The Hero11 also had some throttling issues due to overheating. Shooting 5.3K 60 FPS video would usually top out at around 35 minutes. The Hero12 must have a more efficient, cooler running processor because we are now getting around 75 minutes before it needs to take a break. "

That IS more than a doubling of effective battery life (taking into account overheating).

Here is the link to the review: https://petapixel.com/2023/09/08/gopro-hero-12-black-review-a-step-not-a-leap-forward/

I hope that you can clarify the basis for your claim of a 10-15% increase. 

[Davide DB]

7 hours ago, markr041 said:

That IS more than a doubling of effective battery life (taking into account overheating).

Here is the link to the review: https://petapixel.com/2023/09/08/gopro-hero-12-black-review-a-step-not-a-leap-forward/

I hope that you can clarify the basis for your claim of a 10-15% increase. 

Regardless of Petapixel, what's your feedback?

GP11 submerged in a 10°C water (so no overheating problems) lasts about 1h filming continuously at 4K@50p

[markr041]

16 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Regardless of Petapixel, what's your feedback?

GP11 submerged in a 10°C water (so no overheating problems) lasts about 1h filming continuously at 4K@50p

I understand what you want to know and why, but I do not shoot 4K, only 5.3K, I don't shoot clips more than a few minutes in length, and I do not shoot underwater. So, I cannot help you. When one shoots short clips like I do, battery life is irrelevant - carrying an extra GoPro battery and switching are not important burdens. 

I would suggest searching "Hero 12 underwater video". I found a bunch of videos of people shooting underwater with a Hero 12 and who formerly used a Hero 12. You could ask them in the comments section about battery life. "Fintastic Films" is one example,.

That is better than listening to anyone quoting a site or to somebody, like me, who gets nothing from longer battery life (overheating is another thing).

[powerman668]

I'm really looking forward to this new camera. I've been using gopro's camera for a couple years now and it's a standout in both form and quality.

[gt3rs]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:13 AM, powerman668 said:

 it's a standout in both form and quality.

They are a standout in term of bugs and bugs that they fix only by releasing new hw.... and let not discuss their software.... and useless subscription model.... stock price tell you the whole story of mismanagement of a potential great company and cameras....



 

[markr041]

8 hours ago, gt3rs said:

They are a standout in term of bugs and bugs that they fix only by releasing new hw.... and let not discuss their software.... and useless subscription model.... stock price tell you the whole story of mismanagement of a potential great company and cameras....



 

Are we judging cameras by manufacturers stock prices now? 🙂

I have been shooting with GoPro's since the Hero 4 (including 3D!). GoPro has indeed from model to model made substantial improvements while essentially keeping the same form factor and price. That is the history. The 4's, for example, overheated but did not have thermal protection so that they did not turn off (and thus you got images that bloomed), each successive model had an issue. But also new capabilities.

I agree the 12 is a very, very, very trivial improvement on the 11, especially if you use Labs firmware - amazing capabilities. GoPro software is irrelevant (and they mostly have dropped whatever they had)- but who needs it who is serious about editing? Subscriptions do give you discounts on new cameras, so it does cheapen the hardware upgrades non-trivially. If you subscribe, sell the Hero 11, you can probably pay a net of $150 for a new Hero 12. Yes, that's a lot for a "firmware" upgrade, but you do get an added and fresh battery and a new warranty (including the subscription insurance)!

Is it fair to say the 12 has the least "bugs"? And, if it has some, what exactly are they? I have shot loads of Hero 12 video at 5.3K 60p - the most extreme and taxing mode, at 180 Mbps, with 10bit color and the full color gamut and log gamma. And 4K 120p too. I have not encountered a single problem. What am I missing? should I worry about something? Let us all know. I have a shoot coming up.

 

[Emanuel]

The more I read your new posting the more I like it. Where have I seen it...? ;- )

 

12 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Are we judging cameras by manufacturers stock prices now? 🙂

I have been shooting with GoPro's since the Hero 4 (including 3D!). GoPro has indeed from model to model made substantial improvements while essentially keeping the same form factor and price. That is the history. The 4's, for example, overheated but did not have thermal protection so that they did not turn off (and thus you got images that bloomed), each successive model had an issue. But also new capabilities.

I agree the 12 is a very, very, very trivial improvement on the 11, especially if you use Labs firmware - amazing capabilities. GoPro software is irrelevant (and they mostly have dropped whatever they had)- but who needs it who is serious about editing? Subscriptions do give you discounts on new cameras, so it does cheapen the hardware upgrades non-trivially. If you subscribe, sell the Hero 11, you can probably pay a net of $150 for a new Hero 12. Yes, that's a lot for a "firmware" upgrade, but you do get an added and fresh battery and a new warranty (including the subscription insurance)!

Is it fair to say the 12 has the least "bugs"? And, if it has some, what exactly are they? I have shot loads of Hero 12 video at 5.3K 60p - the most extreme and taxing mode, at 180 Mbps, with 10bit color and the full color gamut and log gamma. And 4K 120p too. I have not encountered a single problem. What am I missing? should I worry about something? Let us all know. I have a shoot coming up.

 

 

[kye]

37 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Are we judging cameras by manufacturers stock prices now? 🙂

Of course not!

We judge them purely by megapixels and dynamic range.  Every other consideration is irrelevant to us, as artists and creative people.

😂😂😂

38 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Is it fair to say the 12 has the least "bugs"? And, if it has some, what exactly are they? I have shot loads of Hero 12 video at 5.3K 60p - the most extreme and taxing mode, at 180 Mbps, with 10bit color and the full color gamut and log gamma. And 4K 120p too. I have not encountered a single problem. What am I missing? should I worry about something? Let us all know. I have a shoot coming up.

Is it the most taxing mode?  

It is the mode with the most resolution to compress, but other modes have the burden of downsampling, which this one wouldn't have.  I'm not sure which would be more strenuous.

I've recently experimented with running Resolve in 720p (applying various blurs and colour processes at this resolution) and then exporting to 1080p via an up-sampling process from the 720p timeline.  It surprised me, but having the timeline in 720p (with less than half the total pixels) and upsampling the result was dramatically slower than just doing all the processing to a 1080p timeline and not doing any upsampling on export.  Both were compressing the 1080p file of course, so no differences there. 

I didn't realise that image rescaling was more computationally demanding than processing the higher resolution natively.

[markr041]

4 hours ago, kye said:

Of course not!

We judge them purely by megapixels and dynamic range.  Every other consideration is irrelevant to us, as artists and creative people.

😂😂😂

Is it the most taxing mode?  

It is the mode with the most resolution to compress, but other modes have the burden of downsampling, which this one wouldn't have.  I'm not sure which would be more strenuous.

I've recently experimented with running Resolve in 720p (applying various blurs and colour processes at this resolution) and then exporting to 1080p via an up-sampling process from the 720p timeline.  It surprised me, but having the timeline in 720p (with less than half the total pixels) and upsampling the result was dramatically slower than just doing all the processing to a 1080p timeline and not doing any upsampling on export.  Both were compressing the 1080p file of course, so no differences there. 

I didn't realise that image rescaling was more computationally demanding than processing the higher resolution natively.

5.3K 60p is the mode that is mostly likely to lead to thermal shutdown, *according to GoPro*. Indeed that mode is where on the Hero 12 they claim to have made the most improvements in battery life and heating.  Anyway, the relative thermal and battery life performance suggest 5.3K 60p is the most taxing on the GoPro.

I agree downsampling is strenuous; I wonder if the 4K modes are line skipped or pixel binned. GoPro has never revealed how they achieve full sensor framing at lower resolutions.

I often downsample 5.3K in post to 4K and that takes more time than just rendering at 5.3K. Similarly, rendering at 8K from 8K RAW takes less resources than rendering at 4K. So I produce 8K and 5.3K videos and let YouTube do the downsampling to 4K if I upload!