Jump to content

Blackmagic URSA - a $6k 4K professional cinema camera with interchangeable sensor


Andrew Reid

Recommended Posts

the guys working on the axiom are also having troubles with this but it should be fixable.. the sensor has consistent pattern noise that needs to be subtracted within the FPGA. this could be fixed with a firmware update. the beauty of programming FPGA's is that you can do a lot after you ship your product.. it's like a logic gate blackboard.. which makes it challenging to program, but also very flexible. they need to fix this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 160
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Geeze, lay off it a bit. Everyone's rather polarized here. We haven't seen jack squat out of most of these cameras, GH4 and A7s included.    1. Just because the GH4 does 4K and is a lightweight Mirr

Looks like Blackmagic brought these guys aboard...    

spec wise it ticks all the boxes super 35mm size sensor 4k and global shutter in a usable body form like an Alexa - what more do you want Blackmagic have listened to all the feedback off their othe

Good luck to black magic with his new products! If they go well, new improvement will come for new small black magic cams in the future... They push the market and now everything go very fast....

I like pocket size. It's perfect for my style and equipment...so I wait for next "pocket" move....

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's amazing that people scoff at a camera that costs $9K now days. My first professional camera was a Sony 637 with DVCAM back that I bought almost 20years ago. It cost me over $20,000 without lens. Look how far we have come now! To a professional, $9000 is nothing for a tool that will put a roof over your head and food on your families table. I agree that for a little extra, the AJa seems to be a much better proposition to the professional shooter.

I'm putting together a gimbal package right now and my FI control unit alone will run 7G's. But in the scheme of things considering the day rate and that five years ago a similar unit was over 20G, I can't complain.

 

Back to the Cion, after closer inspection I'm beginning to suspect its the same chip as the Ursa. It's 22.7mm x 11.9mm (APS-C size), 12 stops DR and Global Shutter and suspiciously no mention of ASA. It was looking too good to be true. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The DSLR form factor is hideous for anything but taking snippy-snap pictures.  They became useful for more than that despite their terrible design with respect to motion pictures.  

 

I disagree. You can put a DSLR anywhere. You can do almost anything with one, put in a cupboard, shoot. Cramped spaces? Just shoot.

 

With an Alexa you need to start tearing down your sets. With an FS700 you... are just fucked. It's so bad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This camera is almost certainly aimed at Broadcast TV shows (dramas will use the Alexa) & so it really isn't aimed at the majority of people on this forum. I would hazard a guess that there are a lot of jobing TV cameramen rubbing their hands at either the BM URSA or the AJA Cion - 10K for a camera like this is peanuts compared to the +20k (more like 30-40K) that you would have had to drop some years ago.

Also, it looks quite small (a little bit bigger than the Z1) & quite frankly 7kg is light for something like this - it'll give you just about the right amount of weight for nice steady shoulder shots or when using the top handle.

The only thing that immediately jumps out as illogical is that they have put the big 10" screen on the wrong side - as it is no one will be viewing this whilst its on your shoulder, but that's probably the point.

+1 on the changeable sensor, which they did because of all the trouble they're experiencing on their other 4K cam.

 

If you don't get why they've released this cam (& the other one) then just move on, since you've obviously never worked in a Broadcast TV environment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a divisive camera.

 

Probably no sure right or wrongs in this. It will work great for some people and for others not.

 

I still think the trend for cameras in general is to go smaller and lighter though.

 

Look at Red as they went from Red One to Epic. Look at Sony between F3 and F55. Canon between XL1 and C300.

 

Lots and lots of people want the convenience.

 

I just don't see how that iMac screen on the end of a hinge is going to hold up to rough & tumble / rental either.

 

You're right in that it's not the right camera for everyone, but let's not forget that Blackmagic makes 3 other form-factors as well. As long as you're able to make multiple products, you can tailor each to a specific need. As for trends, well, the F55 is a bit smaller than the F3, but only in its bare-bone configuration. The same's true for the Red One and the Epic. I don't think any Cine camera would survive too well if you were to throw it around.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if they could do this:

 

  • For shoulder mounting the URSA, in firmware could they have an option to reduce the size of the image on the massive screen so you could actually see it properly? 
  • The upgradeable sensors, could third parties get involved here and offer better working sensors than Blackmagic offers (as the current 4k one seems to be a bit, well, y'know.)

I'd be interested in this if it was half the size and had a 5 inch screen instead. As I'm a handheld, non tripod, non-stop footage kind of guy, this thing will start to get...very....heavy! Like the idea though!

Link to post
Share on other sites

BMC as in Ursa. $ 6.5 K vs $ 9 k for a more fully featured camera, lighter and better designed camera. One will more likely sit on the shelf while someone somewhere thought they were saving 2.5k. It's like the Red Pro Primes. Some  thought is was a great deal at 20k until they realized nobody wanted to use them for legit reasons. As where your Cookes, more expensive, slower but lighter and by far better IQ hold their value and in most cases work a lot. 

 

Once you're spending 6G or more, you're thinking of these things as tools with a good ROI. Anyone who can put down 6.5k for an URSA will probably be considering where and how to get an extra 2.5k to avoid a possible flop. 

 

The CION requires quite a bit of kitting to be on feature parity in many ways with the URSA. You need an external recorder for RAW. As far as I can see, there's no EVF or monitor beside that tiny side-mounted one, so you need one of those. There's only a single capture card. External controls are a lot more limited. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but that it's important to note that they're using two very different design philosophies. The CION is intended to be kitted out, while the URSA is intended to have everything integrated. There are advantages to both.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

In a perfect world? How about in the REAL world. We are talking basic functionality. Stuff that can kill you on a shoot and end up losing you your job. If you have a mega expensive unrepeatable shot ready to roll and the camera just cuts in the middle because the card is full without warning, I'd love for you to come back on the EOSHD forum and sing the praises of your £650 cinema camera.

 

I really don't remember huge warnings about missing shots in your glowing review, last year.

 

If someone is dumb enough to shoot an important shot without having a rough idea of what is left on the card, more fool them. I wouldn't blindly follow what a screen told me any, even on a GH4 or something. Like I said earlier, work out your GB per minute and keep a mental note, or add it to your field notes.... a PITA, sure... But has never once hindered me in any big way.

 

If a shot were so important that it would cost me a client (I'm self employed, my job is pretty safe!), I would have a fresh SD card for that shot anyway.

 

As someone predominately shooting aerial footage, I guess I am used to working things out in my head rather than on screen.... sometimes I cannot see battery warnings, so need to keep a mental track of flight time... Maybe that helps me work out the BMPCC too, but I don't think it should be make or break for anyone.

 

Anyway, last night, BM said they are beta testing a new firmware... So hopefully it is fixed and they can then be seen as not turning their back on the indie market.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As Blackmagic have proven that they can only deliver broken products a year late, I see this as a concept design.

 

The concept of having everything in one compact, easily movable package is a good one......

 

Except this design isn't compact as it is too bulky and it isn't easily movable because its too heavy.

Also its too expensive.

 

Come back when;

1. It's ready to ship

2. It works without issues  (can delete clips, space remaining, no black hole sun, no banding etc etc.)

3. It takes and formats ssds.

4. It's a third of the size and weight

5. It's $4000

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously?

 

4K, S35, 12 stops, simultaneously to two formats (inc RAW), interchangable sensors, 10" monitor, Pro I/Os etc etc

 

How can that be considered too expensive at $6K!!!!!??

 

Twilight zone

 

I don't know what opulent persian hanging gardens pathed with gold you come from, but where I come from and 99% of the world, six THOUSAND dollars isn't chump change.

 

You want to know why else I think six thousand dollars is expensive? .......

Because I don't have six fucking thousand dollars.

 

Which is exactly the reason I think an Alexa is too expensive.   Would I like an Alexa? yes.  But it is by definition too expensive because it costs more money than I have.

 

 

btw, the main things you list are in the BMPC except the 10 inch screen.   "wow it has a ten inch screen, oooooooooh, look at how big it is.  look at how big the ten inch screen is that it has."    Its too fucking big!

Give me a good 5 inch screen and make it smaller, lighter and cheaper.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrators

Seriously?

 

4K, S35, 12 stops, simultaneously to two formats (inc RAW), interchangable sensors, 10" monitor, Pro I/Os etc etc

 

How can that be considered too expensive at $6K!!!!!??

 

Twilight zone

 

Why can't you have some empathy and stop forcing your world view on other people... what is right for you, for example, is right for you. It isn't right for The World. The filmmaking world is very varied, many flavours, many different techniques, sizes of crew and shooting styles.

 

I used both the Production Camera (aka URSA sensor) and GH4, preferred the GH4's image... and that is $1699.

 

And hey for your $1699 you even get audio meters. Imagine that!?

Link to post
Share on other sites

these types of cameras fall into a really confusing territory.  Why would someone buy one of these when the type of work this product is aimed at is clearly undertaken primarily by people who rent. And why would a rental firm buy it when they can just rent out an Alexa, f55, etc out and know it will deliver to their clients continuously day in, day out.

 

Come on black magic.  Redesign the pocket with an evf, proper sized battery compartment for sony NP style batteries, CF card slot and user friendly interface and prores LT.    Give us an all in one solution that can actually be used in small budget situations that works like a dslr.

 

There are people who would pay 3 times what they are asking for the pocket camera if it worked like a dslr without all the flaws.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrators

Indeed. I thought Blackmagic had a nice unique product line going, providing for a genuine market that existed and needed the products... and then suddenly here they are putting all they R&D and best software features into a couple of high end cameras aimed at Arri and Sony, at a price tag too low for pros and too high for 90% of the previous user base.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrators

Come on black magic.  Redesign the pocket with an evf, proper sized battery compartment for sony NP style batteries, CF card slot and user friendly interface and prores LT.    Give us an all in one solution that can actually be used in small budget situations that works like a dslr.

 

I would love the 2.5K BMCC sensor in a decent form factor with more features. They had 2 years to make this but didn't.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...