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Andrew Reid

Sigma Fp review (part 1) and interview - Cinema DNG RAW internal recording!

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23 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Sigma providing the 3D files makes it a lot easier to add your own parts.

This is what your 0.5cm riser would look like and obviously you can then choose what to do with the top of it to make it marry to your preferred method of mounting.

1729253051_ScreenShot2020-03-20at14_27_04.png.0ea681b3b50c7504f5ce23b9c6427492.png254802250_ScreenShot2020-03-20at14_27_31.png.cbcd55b26a36738691c14e9526960ffb.png

Oh that's awesome. I didn't know that.

The small rig cage has a hotshot on it so i was thinking of something that could slide in and fix in there. Needs thinking about.

I would need to use a service for 3D Printing here in the UK, there's no point in buying a printer really. 

I use Houdini and Modo for 3D, what are the normal formats these places accept - can you or anyone recommend any?

Cheers
Paul

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8 minutes ago, paulinventome said:

Oh that's awesome. I didn't know that.

The small rig cage has a hotshot on it so i was thinking of something that could slide in and fix in there. Needs thinking about.

I would need to use a service for 3D Printing here in the UK, there's no point in buying a printer really. 

I use Houdini and Modo for 3D, what are the normal formats these places accept - can you or anyone recommend any?

Cheers
Paul

The Sigma files are on their download page here

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/fp-series/download/

For 3D printing in the UK I would recommend this company without hesitation.

https://www.3dprint-uk.co.uk

You just upload a .stl file to their quote page and away you go.

If you are tempted by getting a 3D printer, its definitely worth looking at the resin printers such as the Elegoo Mars which offer really high print quality for the money.

The process is very different as its chemical based so there is a bit more of a learning curve but its worth putting the effort in based on the results they produce.

The other upside of having a 3D resin printer that I can tell you from personal experience is that should the world suddenly find itself in the middle of a pandemic where access to surgical masks, gloves and isopropyl alcohol are essential items of personal protection then by dint of having one of these resin printers you will already have these items to hand :) 

 

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28 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The other upside of having a 3D resin printer that I can tell you from personal experience is that should the world suddenly find itself in the middle of a pandemic where access to surgical masks, gloves and isopropyl alcohol are essential items of personal protection then by dint of having one of these resin printers you will already have these items to hand :) 

I suspect that a purchase now probably doesn't include such niceties..

Good call though, the site looks great. I will try to knock something up and give it a go. Another angle is finding an optical element (or two) that makes for a much more compact VF.

cheers
Paul

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Another sample of flickering. It's subtle, but check out the left part of the frame here beginning at 17:00

It even happens in the next shot recorded in .MOV.

Cue the dramatic conspiracy music. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Scott_Warren said:

Another sample of flickering. It's subtle, but check out the left part of the frame here beginning at 17:00

That could be compression though...

What shutter speeds are you using and how do you specify them, in degrees?

cheers
Paul

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21 minutes ago, paulinventome said:

That could be compression though...

What shutter speeds are you using and how do you specify them, in degrees?

cheers
Paul

I'm using 1/50th shutter specified by speed, since when I first got the camera it seemed that leaving it in shutter angle of 180 with the framerate at 23.98 still created files with 1/50th shutter speeds instead of 1/48th. Just tried the test with the colorchecker (uploading the folder now) and switched to 1/60th briefly in a separate test and the flickering still occurred. 

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1 hour ago, Scott_Warren said:

Here's the folder of ISO 800 flickering frames of a colorchecker chart:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YLY5ls433I-DgaLSbbzE3Lf6MtTKwjKT

@Lars indeed! When I used 172.8 the flickering also occurred. I'm not certain that the behavior is affected by the designation of degrees or speed in my tests so far. 

So i've managed to find a similar thing on mine at 320 ISO in 10 bit. It's a bit different it's like the bottom few values appear then disappear. It's pretty imperceptible.

So if others fancy playing this game
- Shoot a dark area
- I'm doing 10bit 25p, now 10 bit has bad shadows but good highlights
- Cycle through the ISO
- Put them in Resolve and use the exposure on the RAW to bump up 2 or 3 stops
- Watch the histogram scope.

Do you see a random on/off flicker of data in the shadow end?

So more work needed, but i suspect all the cameras are doing it to a lesser or greater degree...

cheers
Paul

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27 minutes ago, paulinventome said:

So i've managed to find a similar thing on mine at 320 ISO in 10 bit. It's a bit different it's like the bottom few values appear then disappear. It's pretty imperceptible.

So if others fancy playing this game
- Shoot a dark area
- I'm doing 10bit 25p, now 10 bit has bad shadows but good highlights
- Cycle through the ISO
- Put them in Resolve and use the exposure on the RAW to bump up 2 or 3 stops
- Watch the histogram scope.

Do you see a random on/off flicker of data in the shadow end?

So more work needed, but i suspect all the cameras are doing it to a lesser or greater degree...

cheers
Paul

This seems like a good point to package this new round of tests up and send it into Sigma! This thread has become a living and breathing round of research, haha. 

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So within Davinci Resolve...it's not exporting my audio if I'm doing individual clip export. WTF!! How are you guys exporting individual clips in a timeline but with your audio? I've even added the audio tracks, but for whatever reason, it's not exporting any audio. Ahhh!! Since a lot of times, I'm provided graded footage as individual clips that needs to have audio.

Any help appreciated. Thanks ya'll! 

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7 hours ago, Scott_Warren said:

I reached out to Mr. Yamaki on Twitter again and directed him to the previous page of this thread with everything we've found out so far as well as the capture of the flickering happening in Resolve. Fingers crossed :)

Screenshot_20200320-223758.png

That's pretty neat you got a direct response from the CEO! 

Lotta bugs on this unit it seems. A shame considering its price point.

Keep debugging / reporting issues, hopefully in couple months the FP will be solid.

Haven't shot with it personally, but I really enjoyed the build quality..

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I had mentioned this before to them but i didn't have any data at that point.

I will do some tests this weekend. I think collectively we may be able to hammer it down a bit better. I don't like it when things *randomly* differe, it usually means we just don't know the pattern yet.

One thing is to see whether the flickering at different ISOs is uniform across 8,10 and 12 - because i would guess that if there is a bug then it is in that process - from the sensor to DNG.

Also important to see if this is affecting all of us...

cheers
Paul

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It's definitely one of those cameras where the "get" of the image is so good that I think it's worth it for us to keep pushing until it's as great as possible. To be able to push a file almost three stops without issues is mind-blowing to me!

This must be similar how the early RED camera adopters felt when they were in their breakneck development phase. 

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OK.... just tested 4K DNG 10 Bit.

No flickering in Resolve. The low shadows are steady as a rock in the scope.

I tested ISO 100, ISO 400, ISO 640 then ISO 200.

I'm not that interested in going much above 640 as I also have the BMPCC4K which shoots great quality at  ISO1250.

All clips were steady no flickering. I will try and upload them to share, but the folder is massive and my upload speed is 0.5MBPS can you believe Aaargh

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Hmm.....

Just checking all aspects of this again. The three clips I shot at ISO 100, 400 and 640 are all good in my opinion.

On the clip I shot at ISO 200 I'm getting the phenomenon of the first frame being about 1 stop brighter than the rest of the clip.First time I've seen that, and it's only on one of three clips.

I wonder if I should drop the firmware down to 1.1 again and shoot something at ISO200?

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43 minutes ago, Chris Whitten said:

Hmm.....

Just checking all aspects of this again. The three clips I shot at ISO 100, 400 and 640 are all good in my opinion.

On the clip I shot at ISO 200 I'm getting the phenomenon of the first frame being about 1 stop brighter than the rest of the clip.First time I've seen that, and it's only on one of three clips.

I wonder if I should drop the firmware down to 1.1 again and shoot something at ISO200?

Heya Chris, would you mind checking to see if the first frame issue happens with 125, 160, 200, 250, and 320? It doesn't seem to happen at 100 or after 400. 

That's definitely an annoying bug on its own! 

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