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The Resolve / Colour Grading resource thread

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3 hours ago, kye said:

Uh oh, here come the cinematic noobs ūüėāūüėāūüėā

Including me, as a RAW noob... Can help me with project settings for working with Braw? Does this look right?

462129138_Screenshot2019-03-06at20_33_42.thumb.png.c327f46bf854a40d56648290a4322c4e.png

While editing, there's no problem in adjusting the 'Decode Quality' to half or quarter for smoother playback on a laptop right? as long as I change it back to full for the export?

Should I have Highlight Recovery on by default? Or adjust that on a clip by clip basis in the Color tab?

All help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: also, I've generated a sidecar file, but the Blackmagic RAW Player still shows me the ungraded clip, even when the video and sidecar are the only files in the folder it's playing from. - anyone else having a similar experience?

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
6 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Including me, as a RAW noob... Can help me with project settings for working with Braw? Does this look right?

While editing, there's no problem in adjusting the 'Decode Quality' to half or quarter for smoother playback on a laptop right? as long as I change it back to full for the export?

Should I have Highlight Recovery on by default? Or adjust that on a clip by clip basis in the Color tab?

All help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: also, I've generated a sidecar file, but the Blackmagic RAW Player still shows me the ungraded clip, even when the video and sidecar are the only files in the folder it's playing from. - anyone else having a similar experience?

I don't have much experience grading RAW so not really my area unfortunately.

What I can tell you is that Resolve seems to do everything in a non-destructive way.  What I mean is that you can have a node that pushes the exposure to clip the whole frame, but if you then pull it down with the next node it's all still there.  Also, you can have a 4K clip on a 720p timeline and if you export it as a 4K clip it will pull all the resolution from the source clip regardless of what the timeline resolution was.  

So, in a sense it kind of doesn't matter what you do as long as the end result is where you want it.  One exception to this is that you have to be careful with the order of operations as you can get funny results.  Ie, you can get different results applying adjustments by applying them before or after various conversions or other adjustments, so that's the thing to watch out for.

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Edit: to expand on the order of operations comment with an example..

If we take a gradient, apply a colour treatment, apply an opposite colour treatment, then add some contrast with some curves, this is what we get:

117284418_ScreenShot2019-03-07at10_16_48am.thumb.png.543131e5f32c874a4e3238de67b8d01f.png

However, if we apply the same adjustments but change the order so that we apply the curve in-between the colour adjustments we get this:

2092274524_ScreenShot2019-03-07at10_17_14am.thumb.png.dd8b1e6d77c9ef31acf4be8ebb6d49fb.png

This is relevant because it simulates having an incorrect WB in camera, then trying to balance it in post but doing it in the wrong order.

Inside the camera the sensor sees in Linear, then transforms to LOG (or whatever the codec is set to) and so the camera has already made the first two adjustments of WB adjustment and then a set of curves.  This is further complicated by the fact that different tools work in different colour spaces.  Some are designed to work in LOG (IIRC specifically the Cineon LOG curve - Juan Melara recommends ARRI LogC as being the closest match to this) - I believe the Cffset, Contrast/Pivot, and other tools are for LOG.  Others are designed to work in Rec709, such as the Lift Gamma Gain wheels.

In a sense this isn't a problem as there is no such thing as 'correct' as very few of us are trying to capture a scene accurately, we deliberately adjust the WB of shadows and highlights separately (orange/teal, film emulation LUTs, etc) and we deliberately abandon a Linear gamma curve (almost any adjustment), and we apply separate treatments to different items within the scene (keys, power windows, gradients) so none of the above really matters in these cases, however it's good to be aware as if you're going for a natural look then you might be applying a teal/orange style adjustment like I showed above, but not in a good way.

This is why there is such an emphasis on getting WB correct in-camera if you're using a colour profile - anyone who has done this and tried to recover the shot in post faces an impossible task of basically having to work out how to reverse the adjustments that the colour profiles applied.  That magical Canon colour science isn't so magical if you're trying to work out how to un-do it, make an adjustment, and then re-apply it!

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3 hours ago, kye said:

you can have a 4K clip on a 720p timeline and if you export it as a 4K clip it will pull all the resolution from the source clip

So basically, editing on a 4K timeline is a waste of my computer's resources? I'd get the same end results (4k master) if I edit on a 1080/720 timeline?

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1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

So basically, editing on a 4K timeline is a waste of my computer's resources? I'd get the same end results (4k master) if I edit on a 1080/720 timeline?

Not a waste, but it's not required.

Just did a few tests.  I got a project, changed the timeline to 720p, added a 4K still image, then exported at 4K, changed the timeline to be 4K, then exported at 4K again. This is what you get:

  • if you export at 4K from a 720p timeline you get a 4K file but with 720p quality
  • if you export at 4K from a 4K timeline you get a 4K file and 4K quality

An easy way to judge what quality you're getting in the output is to add a Text generator and make the font size really big and look at how sharp the edges are in the output file, especially on curves or edges close to horizontal or vertical.   

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9 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Anyone in this thread worked with HLG files in Resolve? Lots of googling doesn't bring any consensus on workflow.  

Chris

I have worked with GH5 HLG, and also found confusion out there.

What are you trying to do?

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I'm no expert, so, if anyone can think of anything better, I'm all for it.

I got this info from another forum, it seems to work good for me.

- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space

 

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6 hours ago, buggz said:

I'm no expert, so, if anyone can think of anything better, I'm all for it.

I got this info from another forum, it seems to work good for me.

- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space

 

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  When people ask about HLG they're often asking about delivering to HLG, so unfortunately it's ambiguous.

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Wow, nodes are really killing my machine.
It comes to a total crawl.
Is there a way to compensate for this?
Optimized media?  Render cache?
I've tried both, still extremely slow, even used 1/4 rez for playblack.

Should it be this bad for the following hardware?
Seems like none of it get maxed out during use, CPU, nor GPU.

Resolve Studio 15.3.5
Processor: Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake 6-Core running @ 4.3GHz
Motherboard: Asrock Z370 Killer SLI/AC
Video Card: Zotac GeForce RTX 2080 8GB Graphic Card
Memory: 32GB DDR4 3000mhz Gaming Memory with Heat Spreader

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Without the nodes, it processes really fast, compared to my older box.

source:
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main [email protected]@High
Codec ID : hvc1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 50 min 58 s
Bit rate : 192 Mb/s
Width : 4 992 pixels
Height : 3 744 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Original frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.343
Stream size : 68.3 GiB (99%)
Encoded date : UTC 2019-03-05 19:00:17
Tagged date : UTC 2019-03-05 19:00:17
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : HLG
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Codec configuration box : hvcC

output:
Quicktime - Uncompressed - YUV 422 10-bit
4K DCI - 29.97

Video
ID : 1
Format : YUV
Codec ID : v210
Codec ID/Hint : AJA Video Systems Xena
Duration : 4 min 0 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 5 701 Mb/s
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.896
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 21.500
Stream size : 160 GiB (100%)
Language : English
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Node 01 -
Primary Balance
Log Grade
Node 02 -
OFX: Vignette
Node 03 -
Primary Balance
Hue vs Hue Curve
OFX: Dual Gradient
Node 04 -
OFX: Deflicker

I have Tiffen, and DFT OFX, as well as the Resolve Studio OFX.

I am not using any NR.

 

 

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Okay, after turning on the node caches for each node, and putting the deflicker node first, the playback speed jumped from 0.5-1.0 to 1-2, suggested in the Blackmagic Forum. Still very bad...

And then much later...

I went to dinner with the family, started watching a movie, and now tried playback again.
The cache may have been generated, or something.
Now playback is normal.
Amazing!

Ahh, I see the blue line, for cached files?
There is still a little red at the end.
Wow, this takes long of a time  to build the cache files, for 4 minutes of video?

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Yeah, sounds like it was rendering proxies in the background.

Your big load is the deflicker plugin.  Most plugins work by doing something to one frame at a time, but this is one that has to analyse a bunch of them and I've noticed that it kills my machine too.  

A quick way to troubleshoot performance is to just play the timeline and watch the little FPS number above the viewer, and try turning on and off nodes and seeing where the load is.  Often there are nodes that you can get dialled in, and then disable while you edit, then re-enable before you export.  

Resolve has a pretty complicated suite of performance optimising and caching functions, it's worth getting to know them so you can easily adjust things as you work to get the speed and the accuracy / quality you require at different stages of the editing process.

For example:

  • for editing you need speed so if you have compressed source footage then generating proxies will help, if you're doing dissolves or other effects then lowering the timeline resolution can help
  • for image processing (not colour work) the load is in processing the footage so lowering the timeline resolution will help (as it has less pixels to compute)
  • for colour grading you need high quality (and maybe not speed) so turn up the timeline resolution and just skip through the timeline, but if you need realtime playback then rendering cache on the timeline is the answer, but if you need high quality, realtime playback and can't wait for proxies to render then just hand your wallet over and someone will take care of it!

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On 3/7/2019 at 6:07 AM, Anaconda_ said:

So basically, editing on a 4K timeline is a waste of my computer's resources? I'd get the same end results (4k master) if I edit on a 1080/720 timeline?

Master counts, not much else : -)

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On 3/8/2019 at 3:30 AM, kye said:

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  When people ask about HLG they're often asking about delivering to HLG, so unfortunately it's ambiguous.

Sorry I wasn't clear about that, not for HLG delivery, just experimenting with another alternative to Slog since it seem to be capable of producing good results. I shoot all Cine2 or Cine4 right now.

Chris

On 3/7/2019 at 9:11 PM, buggz said:

I'm no expert, so, if anyone can think of anything better, I'm all for it.

I got this info from another forum, it seems to work good for me.

- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space

 

Thanks for posting this, I'll take a crack at it to see how it works.

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21 hours ago, kye said:

Yeah, sounds like it was rendering proxies in the background.

Your big load is the deflicker plugin.  Most plugins work by doing something to one frame at a time, but this is one that has to analyse a bunch of them and I've noticed that it kills my machine too.  

A quick way to troubleshoot performance is to just play the timeline and watch the little FPS number above the viewer, and try turning on and off nodes and seeing where the load is.  Often there are nodes that you can get dialled in, and then disable while you edit, then re-enable before you export.  

Resolve has a pretty complicated suite of performance optimising and caching functions, it's worth getting to know them so you can easily adjust things as you work to get the speed and the accuracy / quality you require at different stages of the editing process.

For example:

  • for editing you need speed so if you have compressed source footage then generating proxies will help, if you're doing dissolves or other effects then lowering the timeline resolution can help
  • for image processing (not colour work) the load is in processing the footage so lowering the timeline resolution will help (as it has less pixels to compute)
  • for colour grading you need high quality (and maybe not speed) so turn up the timeline resolution and just skip through the timeline, but if you need realtime playback then rendering cache on the timeline is the answer, but if you need high quality, realtime playback and can't wait for proxies to render then just hand your wallet over and someone will take care of it!

Thanks for this information.

A BM product manager says the OFX I use, Tiffen, which is now DFT, I still have both loaded, do not conform or meet the DR OFX spec fully?, and is the cause of major process time.

I will have to relate this back to Tiffen, as this was a huge expense for me, and I'd like to continue to use them, as they have really good tools.

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13 minutes ago, buggz said:

Thanks for this information.

A BM product manager says the OFX I use, Tiffen, which is now DFT, I still have both loaded, do not conform or meet the DR OFX spec fully?, and is the cause of major process time.

I will have to relate this back to Tiffen, as this was a huge expense for me, and I'd like to continue to use them, as they have really good tools.

Interesting.  I'd definitely raise that with Tiffen.  Let us know how you go :)

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I just discovered a hack, that I've been able to repeat a number of times to test and it's saved me hours of work, so thought I'd share for anyone else who's faced/will face this problem.

The problem:

Wrong timeline settings, but you don't notice before you go to export.

I'm new to the software, I loaded my media, made a timeline and edited my video. Great, it's mostly a test to learn how to use it, and I'm done. I go to export and find I can only select 24p or 30p, my media is all 25p, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I'm trawling through settings and find a greyed out box in the Master Settings that says 24 frames per second (changed to 25 in the screenshot). It turns out, you can't change this once you've loaded media into your project... (why?) 

1775319750_ScreenShot2019-03-14at20_15_36.thumb.png.5dce229e1c458865f66f22c98add2a44.png

The solution:

I backed up my project, deleted ALL the media, timelines etc. to make it brand new. I then opened the Master Settings to make a template to avoid this from happening again. After saving and closing the settings box, for some reason, I assume either habit or fate, I pressed cmd+z. The spinning beach ball arrived and my frustration grew, but suddenly all my media and timelines came back, undoing the delete. Out of curiosity I opened the Master Settings again and low and behold, my project was all set to 25p and I can export my edit at the correct frame rate, without having to reedit the whole piece.

TLDR; 

Wrong project FPS when starting the project

Delete all media and timelines - ideally highlight everything and press delete just once

Change project FPS in Master Settings

Undo media and timeline deletion

Export at correct frame rate.

 

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