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Andrew Reid

A look at raw video on the Canon 600D

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I have done some research of 700D, 650D, 600D & 60D for their internal buffer size according to their continuous shooting maximum capacity. Here is the spec of each camera:

 

700D: 5fps, max 30 jpg, 6 RAW

650D: 5fps, max 30 jpg, 6 RAW

600D: 3.7fps, max 34 jpg, 6 RAW

60D: 5.3fps, max 58 jpg, 16 RAW

 

 

That is why I wonder why 600D was taken as second camera to test, not 60D. I also have 60D and I wanted to sell it a week ago, and to buy Panasonic, but now I wait inpatient. 

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+1, Superka!
i totally understand that now we are at the early stage of this raw hacking but i'm just wondering why 60D is kinda off topic with this thing...we know ML tried to reach the 1080P/35fps with 60D first, right?

anyway, I need to wait and hope we can get stable enough 1080P24fps raw with 60D near future! crossing my fingers!!

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I bought a 600D (T3i) earlier this year because I wanted an affordable first camera for learning to shoot indie movies, with the intention to move up to a 5D eventually.

 

I've shot a few short movies with it, and the results look very nice on a 80 inch screen.  I shoot at 1080p, 24fps. Would shooting raw at 720p and then upscaling to 1080p yield a better looking picture than what I currently do which is to shoot 1080p with the H.254 codec?

 

Another question I have for the experts here is, given the reported hardware limitations in terms of memory controller bandwidth of the 600D, if it is impossible to shot RAW at 1080p, could it be possible to replace the codec for a better one such as ProRes 4444 or CineForm 444?

 

In the meantime, I'm starting to save for a 5D Mark III :)

 

Possibly, I believe the Canons don't actually resolve 1080 lines in h264 anyway so it probably will be better.

 

+

 

I highly doubt that, from my understanding they got RAW by simply managing to get a stills burst mode at a lower resolution. That is a far cry from implementing a different codec on the camera.

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That is why I wonder why 600D was taken as second camera to test, not 60D. I also have 60D and I wanted to sell it a week ago, and to buy Panasonic, but now I wait inpatient. 

Maybe because its slower than the 60D, that way if they can get it working on the 600D it will most definitely work on 60D because they also use same processor?

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I've read in the early post of MJpg output possibility instead of raw. Am i right..? If this is true, could be feasible recording Mjpeg instead of Raw at 1920*1080 on 600D (or at least on 6D)..?

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Its funny when they show development of new raw camera or raw hack like everybody is instantly ordering or selling without waiting how this camera or hack will really perform in all aspects. What a hype :) Before it was like only few wanted to be guinea pigs with first generation of gadgets and now you show just first picture without drops from laboratory and crowds are yelling shut up and take my money :)))) Funny times.
But I love this RAW hype, we deserve it after long years of fidling with mushy fuzzy pictures and industry crippling cameras.

Vive la revolution, vive le ML, vive le camera engineurs!

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I bought a 600D (T3i) earlier this year because I wanted an affordable first camera for learning to shoot indie movies, with the intention to move up to a 5D eventually.

 

I've shot a few short movies with it, and the results look very nice on a 80 inch screen.  I shoot at 1080p, 24fps. Would shooting raw at 720p and then upscaling to 1080p yield a better looking picture than what I currently do which is to shoot 1080p with the H.254 codec?

 

Another question I have for the experts here is, given the reported hardware limitations in terms of memory controller bandwidth of the 600D, if it is impossible to shot RAW at 1080p, could it be possible to replace the codec for a better one such as ProRes 4444 or CineForm 444?

 

In the meantime, I'm starting to save for a 5D Mark III :)

 

Just judging purely from the knowledge that the 5D Mk. III's raw files are on par with the GH2 in sharpness, I'd venture to guess that yes, you'd probably get an image about as good as the regular H.264 compressed one, and with all the other advantages of the raw. That's for 720p, of course. I wouldn't necessarily expect the same from 960x480, no matter how sharp it is.

 

To answer your question about the codec, I'd say "no". The raw footage recorded from these cameras right now is not in a codec of any kind; the video is in a completely uncompressed, unprocessed ".RAW" file format. You need to encode it to DNG manually before you can even use it in any sort of imaging program. Adding in a conventional video codec to the mix, like the ProRes or CineForm variants, would not only slow down the whole recording process due to the added processing requirements (as you'd effectively be forcing the camera to encode the footage in place of your computer), but it would also likely be neigh impossible given that one would need to install a custom-built encoding scheme onto the camera in the first place (with ProRes and CineForm both being non-open codecs protected by Apple and GoPro, to boot).

I mean, after this raw hack, I wouldn't ever doubt the capabilities of the Magic Lantern team, but I'd say there's a slim chance of that happening. Even if they were able to work magic and get a ProRes encoder on to the camera, the extra overhead in processing work might cut the frame rates down substantially.

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That is why I wonder why 600D was taken as second camera to test, not 60D. I also have 60D and I wanted to sell it a week ago, and to buy Panasonic, but now I wait inpatient. 

 

2 people appear to be compiling it for the 60D at the moment, so not long to wait!

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I've read in the early post of MJpg output possibility instead of raw. Am i right..? If this is true, could be feasible recording Mjpeg instead of Raw at 1920*1080 on 600D (or at least on 6D)..?

 

Why would you want MJEG...

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What I would like to know even more than anything else regarding RAW-Video on the 600D is: What about the camera temperatures, ML is heating up the cam quite a lot already. So, for how long can you record in highest possible continues resolution RAW format until it gets too hot to continue?

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Who needs RAW...
4::2:2 1920-1080/50p is more logical with peaking.

http://philipbloom.net/2013/05/16/4kraw/

 

You're like the guy at the first space shuttle launch who turned around half way through and said "ah seen enough, give me my dinner" and went home.

 

I bet on the way home you were muttering to yourself saying "ah who needs spaceships when you have a car".

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You're like the guy at the first space shuttle launch who turned around half way through and said "ah seen enough, give me my dinner" and went home.

 

I bet on the way home you were muttering to yourself saying "ah who needs spaceships when you have a car".

 

 

 

 

 

No - I am the Guy who makes $100,000-150,000 from paid video productions.;-))

 

So why do you need RAW?

What exactly do you produce to make living apart from weekly tests(for which we are all grateful ;-)?

Is there any feature film i missed from you. What it it you actually hope to achieve with raw? 

'will you have your name in PROMETHEUS 2 trailer"

RAW is very handy for High End and i really mean HIGH END.

Unless it is the Market YOU yes YOU are involved in,then i understand it- but if you are in High End, then the $$$$ you get paid on weekly basis should be enough to buy 10 Epics ;-)))

...but if it is a hobby, then go ahead and get .............................

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No - I am the Guy who makes $100,000-150,000 from paid video productions.;-))

 

So why do you need RAW?

What exactly do you produce to make living apart from weekly tests(for which we are all grateful ;-)?

Is there any feature film i missed from you. What it it you actually hope to achieve with raw? 

'will you have your name in PROMETHEUS 2 trailer"

RAW is very handy for High End and i really mean HIGH END.

Unless it is the Market YOU yes YOU are involved in,then i understand it- but if you are in High End, then the $$$$ you get paid on weekly basis should be enough to buy 10 Epics ;-)))

...but if it is a hobby, then go ahead and get .............................

 

So the moral of the story is: "Even though it's free, don't do it. There's no chance you'll ever use it."

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No - I am the Guy who makes $100,000-150,000 from paid video productions.;-))

 

So why do you need RAW?

What exactly do you produce to make living apart from weekly tests(for which we are all grateful ;-)?

Is there any feature film i missed from you. What it it you actually hope to achieve with raw? 

'will you have your name in PROMETHEUS 2 trailer"

RAW is very handy for High End and i really mean HIGH END.

Unless it is the Market YOU yes YOU are involved in,then i understand it- but if you are in High End, then the $$$$ you get paid on weekly basis should be enough to buy 10 Epics ;-)))

...but if it is a hobby, then go ahead and get .............................

 

I can agree on some points here but your words would make BlackMagic products nonsense, which is not true.

There's a lot of variety in small productions and indie movies, and not everybody has same needs.

Probably one who makes weddings one after the other does not really care of RAW, or he could even consider it an obstacle to his fast and easy workflow.

Instead a indie director who's doing his movie for passion and who does not care about how much time it's going to take but wants to make his little production wwith the maximum attention, detail and quality possible with prosumer tools will have a great benefit from RAW shooting.

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No - I am the Guy who makes $100,000-150,000 from paid video productions.;-))

 

So why do you need RAW?

What exactly do you produce to make living apart from weekly tests(for which we are all grateful ;-)?

Is there any feature film i missed from you. What it it you actually hope to achieve with raw? 

'will you have your name in PROMETHEUS 2 trailer"

RAW is very handy for High End and i really mean HIGH END.

Unless it is the Market YOU yes YOU are involved in,then i understand it- but if you are in High End, then the $$$$ you get paid on weekly basis should be enough to buy 10 Epics ;-)))

...but if it is a hobby, then go ahead and get .............................

 

Good for you.  

 

I am the guy who makes virtually nothing from paid video productions, apart from the odd freelance gig. Quite the opposite, I'm paying £9000 a year to study film. 

 

I make shorts and have aspirations of making films for a living. Now, in order to do that I need to impress people with my films. As much as content is king, it doesn't half help if your visuals are beautiful. I put half of that down to movement and half of that down to the image itself.

 

Often when I am grading, with a hacked GH2, I wish I could manipulate the footage in ways that I cannot because I'm shooting in a compressed codec. If I could shoot raw for no extra cost, it would give me more creative freedom. That isn't about 'how good 4K is' or anything, it's just removing limitations which I find irritating every single day.

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