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webrunner5

EVA1 versus FS7, FS5

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The way I see it is the EVA1 has a clear advantage for almost all buyers over the FS5. 

But EVA1 vs FS7 is: "half a dozen of one, six of the other".   Just depends on the buyer which sets of tradeoffs they prefer. 

(which is also reflected in the prices of the three/four products being compared: FS5 cheapest, FS7mk2 the most expensive, but FS7mk1 & EVA1 almost exactly the same price)

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The way I see it is the EVA1 has a clear advantage for almost all buyers over the FS5. 

How so? (genuinely interested in why you think this @IronFilm) The variable ND and E mount make it the clear winner for my work and many others. It's also smaller and lighter.

And it's cheap enough to buy the raw upgrade with recorder and still be cheaper than the EVA but you'd have higher bit depth and higher continuous frame rates. 

I'm biased as an FS5 owner but I really think it's the other way around and the FS5 is a better buy for most people, and that for anyone who needs more should look past the EVA and get an FS7 ; ) 

- & FWIW The test wasn't even shot using optimal settings. Shooting Slog 3 at 8 bit in this test is just silly. 4K on the FS5 is really quite good when using a cine gamma. Same with the high frame rate. And everyone and their mom knows to over expose Slog which means he should have put middle grey higher around 55% not 41 - 

 

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I know more about a FS7 than the FS5, but I agree just the mount is worth the price of admission, and add the Variable ND, well.... Nobody is ever going to knock Sony off the top in Broadcast, never.

Now Films, Arri has them beat most of the time.

It is pretty amazing how they copied the FS5 body so much, and all the plastic, what were they thinking for that kind of money?

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16 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

How so? (genuinely interested in why you think this @IronFilm) The variable ND and E mount make it the clear winner for my work and many others.


TC,  4K 30p 10bit internal, 4K 60fps, I reckon gives the EVA1 a clear edge. 

But sure, if E mount or variable ND is more important to your particular needs then the FS5 is right for you!

And yeah, I wish the EVA1 had used a mirrorless mount (Panasonic has made many cameras with one after all!). Even more important than eND.

 

16 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

It's also smaller and lighter.


EVA1 is already surprisingly small and lightweight, I wouldn't consider this a major factor vs the FS5 (vs the FS7 however? Yup).

 

16 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

And it's cheap enough to buy the raw upgrade with recorder and still be cheaper than the EVA but you'd have higher bit depth and higher continuous frame rates. 

 

But it is also big and awkward then with an external recorder. 

If I wanted cheaper 4K raw in a big and awkward form factor I'd go with an FS700! ;-) :-P
(it is quite tempting still....)
 

16 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

Shooting Slog 3 at 8 bit in this test is just silly.

Agreed, I'm of the view 8bit and slog3 shouldn't mix.

 

11 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

It is pretty amazing how they copied the FS5 body so much, and all the plastic, what were they thinking for that kind of money?

Arguably the FS5 "copied" the C100 body! ;-)
I don't think anyone really "copied" the other, they just made sensible design choices for a small camera like this.
Oh, and plastic = lighter (& cheaper). A good choice for this kind of camera. 

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10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Oh, and plastic = lighter (& cheaper). A good choice for this kind of camera. 

Cheaper, hell it cost More than a FS5, and only a grand less than a FS7! I think it is going to be as big a dud as the AF100! A good camera, but not a notable one.

And the GH5 with it's crap AF, and I would argue a even worse OOC look is going to go down as not so hot either. Panasonic better have this new GH5s the best thing since sliced bread or I think their goose is cooked on higher end cameras. Even the Varicam 35 isn't selling like they hoped.

Right now Panasonic does not have one camera I would buy new over the competition.

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Yeah I have to say that the plastic build is a little disappointing at that price point.

Of course, if I had that kind of money for a Cine camera, I would get the C200 every day of the week, so it doesn’t matter all that much to me.

It seems there are more and more EVA1s in the wild so hopefully more footage will be popping up. 

I think @Zak Forsman has one so maybe he will chime in on this.

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5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Right now Panasonic does not have one camera I would buy new over the competition.

I think you're massively underrating the GH5, EVA1, & Varicam LT.

 

I know owners of each of them who bought them new and are very happy with it. And if I was still focused on the camera side of things I'd quite possibly do the same too.

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I've used (borrowed) the FS5 for a couple of years, and must say I've never really liked it for the type of work I do. Yes, the image looks nice enough when you overexpose log, but in general I've never been too happy with the results I'm getting out of it in camera, atleast in 1080p. (using recorder to 4k prores however, is great, but more awkward.) I just find the image to not be as sharp as it should be.

Eva1 was pretty much the only camera within my budget that ticked most of my boxes, and I've had no regrets since. eND & autofocus is nice, but I've never had a project that depended on it. I find it feels very similar to an fs5 on steroids (with better ergonomics imo). Footage looks close to that of the FS7 from my experience (though I haven't worked with a lot of fs7 footage) - but at a way smaller form factor.

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6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I think you're massively underrating the GH5, EVA1, & Varicam LT.

 

I know owners of each of them who bought them new and are very happy with it. And if I was still focused on the camera side of things I'd quite possibly do the same too.

If you buy one new you are stuck with it like it or not unless you can afford to take a ass whipping selling it the next day. I am sorry I have seen hardly Anything from a GH5 I like.

I am buying a Arri or a Sony F55 over a Varicam 35.

I am not saying they are junk. I just don't like the way the have been going look wise in the past several years. I am probably in the minority on here about it I am sure.

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16 hours ago, mercer said:

I think @Zak Forsman has one so maybe he will chime in on this.

 

Yeah, I've had an EVA1 for quite a while. It's a plastic shell around a magnesium alloy frame. You can see it if you watch Wooden Camera's video for swapping the EF mount with their PL mount. No complaints about build quality here. 

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EVA1 is winner here with more modern codec, lowlight with much less chroma noise and artefacts, higher resolution, fatter additional 400mbps codec and Varicam color science. It´s a true indy cinema camera whereas FS7 is an ENG workhorse. The test above is not showing significant footage, it´s like the cat shooting game from the DSLR days, not revealing anything about the quality of the camera. It´s wordy but not showing its assumptions. FS5 codec is has been proved to be crappy a lot of times. FS7 240mbit codec is old and full of artefacts in lowlight. IT´s still the top choice for every day ENG work, because for that it offer great ergos, approaved broadcast quality and most of all workflow.

For indy cinema EVA is an awesome choice for the reasons I gave above about cinematic image with Varicam colors and filmic noise structure and high resultion with superior codecs.

The GH5 is such a hit, that zillions of beginners shooting with this powerhouse. It´s been so popular for every videoshooter, so many beginners shooting with it. Thatfore vimeo gives us dozens and zillions of beginner level footage. Believe me, GH5 in 8bit HD REC709 is already giving cinema experience quality color within three nodes of a quick grade. That´s why it´s a megaseller, because of it´s potential and technical prowess. Buyers just don´t know how to take advantage of it and shoot everyting in LOG without having an idea about the workflow. You guys know what I mean :)

4 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

Yeah, I've had an EVA1 for quite a while. It's a plastic shell around a magnesium alloy frame. You can see it if you watch Wooden Camera's video for swapping the EF mount with their PL mount. No complaints about build quality here. 

Footage please :) Why did you sell it?

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55 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

FS5 codec is has been proved to be crappy a lot of times. FS7 240mbit codec is old and full of artefacts in lowlight.

I own one of these and have used the other extensively and I'm going to have to say no to this. Not even close to my experience.

Also, what do you even mean by modern/old codec? They're all h.264!

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Well here is another one to compare to. The C200 with no Broadcast stand 1080p Codec, and just one CFast slot, it is not the most desirable thing out there for heavy field work.

I just don't see why one of these manufacturers does not make a few extra things on their products and Really make a Killer camera. How much more money would it cost to have a good 1080p 10bit 422 codec, and another CFast slot. It would be about perfect. And with the DPAF they could not make them fast enough. Who gives a crap if it bites into the C300, if you are selling thousands instead of 100's who cares what model number it has on it if you are the leader in that class..

 

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I will say Bloom’s example video, “The Telescope,” is some beautiful work and definitely shows what the camera can do...

 

4 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

I didn't. I'm very happy with EVA1. so happy i bought a 3 year warranty and am selling off my other cameras.

Not the 5D3? Your footage was gorgeous! Some of the nicest ML Raw samples out there.

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