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Photokina 2016 preview and summary of the year in video so far


Andrew Reid
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EOSHD Pro Color 5 for Sony cameras EOSHD Z LOG for Nikon CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
12 hours ago, Matt Holder said:

Sign me up for the Gh5 even if  IBIS is all they bring to the table.

 

Right now with my current gear  - Gh4 and Olympus 7-14, Panasonic 12-35 and 35 - 100 - and the venerable Voigtlander 25  - Sliders, steadicams, panasonic's AMAZING native codec (it really is under rated) and the turbo editing speed of FCPX ..

 

-I reckon i could be QUICKLY creating great content for the next 5 years without any need of an update. 

 

Its nice to have too many stories to tell, a ton of forward bookings from clients and no new gear acquisition syndrome! 

That's what it is all about at the end of the day - great post. Whilst the world spins with millions of spec freaks head deep on forums waiting for the next best thing, there are videographers out there producing art on cameras they have held on to for years.

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1 hour ago, johnnymossville said:

any chance the GH5 will have 10bit internal or raw? 

Hope so, but doubt it. 
I think there is almost ZERO chance of internal raw. 
Currently Panasonic GH4 is the only one doing external 10bit, so it isn't like they're being pushed to do more!
But it is the natural next step for the GH series to do (just like how the a7S mk1 to a7S mk2 went from external 4K to internal 4K)

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Hopefully Samsung stops being a twat and just makes the NX2 preferably in APS-C sensor cause the full frame is going to have shait rolling shutter unless they stuff two of their best cellphone ARM processors in the camera which will consume more power than a Tesla car.

2160p60 and 1440p120 with HDR or an actual proper LOG profile and high bitrate. 

I know they can do it, also is weird that they exited, everywhere I see and go their cameras are outsold, I checked an online store that had 20+ Samsung NX1, and then a couple of weeks after, they were outsold. 

Such a shame that no one else wants to make a camera like the NX1 even if it would sell like hotcakes.

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48 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

I think the GH5 will have some great specs for video. Unlike the 5D mark IV, the GH line is Panasonic's flagship hybrid. The DVX200 is more in camcorder land. The next step up in video is the Varicam LT.

More info is coming soon:

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-no-full-gh5-announcement-photokina/

My thoughts is, please please please have this (in order of priority):
4K DCI 60fps 10bit 422 internal with no crop + IBIS + XLR-K2M style audio implementation (not add audio like the YAGH!!) + built in ND filter (if the RX10 can do it, why not a GH5?? Even better if variable ND filter like the FS5!!) + 240fps FHD + multi aspect ratio sensor (like the GH2).

Do that and I'll sell my wife, soul, and first born to get one.

 

 

Do check out the XLR-K2M, is a nifty Sony product which can be put on their mirrorless cameras, or even point and shoots!

I see no reason at all why Panasonic couldn't bring this out if they considered it. 

The Sony RX10 mk2 is priced way under US$2K, and has an ND filter. Even if they GH5 doesn't have the fancy FS5 ND filter and only has a basic RX10 type ND filter then I'd still be happy with that as a big improvement for the GH line up :)

As it looks like an AF200 is not coming, I think Panasonic really needs to bring their best A game with the GH5! And the GX9/G8 can be photography focused cameras, plus there is Olympus for MFT users.

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19 minutes ago, SMGJohn said:

Such a shame that no one else wants to make a camera like the NX1 even if it would sell like hotcakes.

Well the NX1 didn't sell like hotcakes, if it were a Canon it would certainly sell better. But still...

7 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

More info is coming soon:

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-no-full-gh5-announcement-photokina/

My thoughts is, please please please have this (in order of priority):
4K DCI 60fps 10bit 422 internal with no crop + IBIS + XLR-K2M style audio implementation (not add audio like the YAGH!!) + built in ND filter (if the RX10 can do it, why not a GH5?? Even better if variable ND filter like the FS5!!) + 240fps FHD + multi aspect ratio sensor (like the GH2).

Do that and I'll sell my wife, soul, and first born to get one.

10-bit internal and a ND/IBIS combo seem highly unlikely. 4k60 and 240fps will have major heat issues, IMO those are unlikely as well. We'll see soon.

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5 minutes ago, The Chris said:

10-bit internal and a ND/IBIS combo seem highly unlikely. 

I'd be surprised if it does not have IBIS, after the GX80 has it. And Olympus is bringing a 4K IBIS camera. 

5 minutes ago, The Chris said:

4k60 and 240fps will have major heat issues, IMO those are unlikely as well. We'll see soon.

GH5 needs something that is cutting edge above all other competitors to keep it in the lead for the long cycle until the GH6 comes out. FHD 240fps probably wouldn't be it....  (even RX10/RX100 series has that). But 4K 60fps could do it!

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

More info is coming soon:

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-no-full-gh5-announcement-photokina/

My thoughts is, please please please have this (in order of priority):
4K DCI 60fps 10bit 422 internal with no crop + IBIS + XLR-K2M style audio implementation (not add audio like the YAGH!!) + built in ND filter (if the RX10 can do it, why not a GH5?? Even better if variable ND filter like the FS5!!) + 240fps FHD + multi aspect ratio sensor (like the GH2).

Do that and I'll sell my wife, soul, and first born to get one.

 

 

Do check out the XLR-K2M, is a nifty Sony product which can be put on their mirrorless cameras, or even point and shoots!

I see no reason at all why Panasonic couldn't bring this out if they considered it. 

The Sony RX10 mk2 is priced way under US$2K, and has an ND filter. Even if they GH5 doesn't have the fancy FS5 ND filter and only has a basic RX10 type ND filter then I'd still be happy with that as a big improvement for the GH line up :)

As it looks like an AF200 is not coming, I think Panasonic really needs to bring their best A game with the GH5! And the GX9/G8 can be photography focused cameras, plus there is Olympus for MFT users.

Some of your wishlist seems like the things they need.

I think even if they have 8-bit 4-2-2 internal, at 200-300mbps, it should be sufficient. Also, a Seriously Improved (3 versions actually) of the VLog.

And an improved Yagh (with oomp) too is something they need to do. Maybe they can sell the ND Filter Adapter for their own and other M4/3 lenses. It will help deal with reducing minimum focus distance among other things.

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once again Andrew, I couldn't agree more with you... 2016 has been really dissappointing besides the A6300 which I love now that I've mastered combating rolling shutter and the overheating (which I never had a problem with anyway). The GH5 is looking to be the REAL winner of 2016, I just hope Panasonic like you said doesn't make any last minute stupid mistakes with it. I'll def be getting it for sure even though I hate the MFT sensor and WISH they'd have a Lumix S line that uses Super 35 sensor sizes instead of MFT with something like Clear Image Zoom for use with legacy MFT lenses. Oh well, guess my Metabones speedboosters aint going anywhere.

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3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'd be surprised if it does not have IBIS, after the GX80 has it. And Olympus is bringing a 4K IBIS camera. 

GH5 needs something that is cutting edge above all other competitors to keep it in the lead for the long cycle until the GH6 comes out. FHD 240fps probably wouldn't be it....  (even RX10/RX100 series has that). But 4K 60fps could do it!

What I meant was IBIS + internal ND filters no. Agree all signs point to IBIS after the GX80/5

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 5:30 AM, Andrew Reid said:

canon-photokina-2012.jpg

We find ourselves in the slightly odd situation of Fuji and Samsung leading the $1000-$2000 market for Super 35mm video.

Read the full article

Quote

2 years later that camera’s video specification hasn’t been bettered by any other APS-C camera and that rather perversely Samsung have chosen not to continue making it.

More accurately, the improvement in video specs in 2016 came about BECAUSE Samsung left, lol. It prompted people to start hacking the cameras to improve performance :)

3 hours ago, SMGJohn said:

Hopefully Samsung stops being a twat and just makes the NX2 preferably in APS-C sensor cause the full frame is going to have shait rolling shutter unless they stuff two of their best cellphone ARM processors in the camera which will consume more power than a Tesla car.

2160p60 and 1440p120 with HDR or an actual proper LOG profile and high bitrate. 

I know they can do it, also is weird that they exited, everywhere I see and go their cameras are outsold, I checked an online store that had 20+ Samsung NX1, and then a couple of weeks after, they were outsold. 

Such a shame that no one else wants to make a camera like the NX1 even if it would sell like hotcakes.

It still remains a possibility that the camera technology was transferred to another company as a collaborative effort, and that the NX innards will be resurrected under another brand.

Btw, rolling shutter is a function of number of pixels, not sensor size. A FF sensor with the same number of pixels and the same processor would have the same RS. Presumably two years on they would be using a faster processor however, and the read could be done more rapidly with less RS. A NX1 mark II would probably have improved performance in most areas, such as RS, noise, ISO etc.

NX1s were selling out because there were not many distribution outlets and not many units were actually produced. The whole marketing aspect was very bizarre, almost as though they were not trying at all and had already decided to leave the market even before the camera was released.

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3 hours ago, SullyCortez said:

once again Andrew, I couldn't agree more with you... 2016 has been really dissappointing besides the A6300 which I love now that I've mastered combating rolling shutter and the overheating (which I never had a problem with anyway). The GH5 is looking to be the REAL winner of 2016, I just hope Panasonic like you said doesn't make any last minute stupid mistakes with it. I'll def be getting it for sure even though I hate the MFT sensor and WISH they'd have a Lumix S line that uses Super 35 sensor sizes instead of MFT with something like Clear Image Zoom for use with legacy MFT lenses. Oh well, guess my Metabones speedboosters aint going anywhere.

I hope the GH5 comes in 2016, it may be delayed to 2017.

Indeed Super 35mm CMOS from Panasonic would be great.

They have already made a full frame sensor for Leica so have the raw material in-house to do it

Micro Four Thirds should be the APS-C of Panasonic's range

Where would Canon be without full frame?!

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6 hours ago, sanveer said:

Some of your wishlist seems like the things they need.

I think even if they have 8-bit 4-2-2 internal, at 200-300mbps, it should be sufficient. Also, a Seriously Improved (3 versions actually) of the VLog.

And an improved Yagh (with oomp) too is something they need to do. Maybe they can sell the ND Filter Adapter for their own and other M4/3 lenses. It will help deal with reducing minimum focus distance among other things.

422 without going to 10bit as well wouldn't be a huge gain, don't want to still be stuck with 8bit.

An internal ND filter adapter doesn't seem realistic. Needs to be built into the camera.

And XLR-K2M form factor would be much nicer than YAGH styling.

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

422 without going to 10bit as well wouldn't be a huge gain, don't want to still be stuck with 8bit.

An internal ND filter adapter doesn't seem realistic. Needs to be built into the camera.

And XLR-K2M form factor would be much nicer than YAGH styling.

IMHO high bitrate good 8-bit 4-2-2 may not seem very different from 10-bit 4-2-2. A lot of the pro Canons have it. 

There is already an adaptor like this that seems like a good idea, and could be used for almost any other 4/3 ILC:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1041731-REG/fotodiox_vzlx_thrtl_eos_nex_pro_vizelx_nd_throttle_adpter.html

 

I meant the Sony K2M version too. The Yagh was a design and engineering disaster. 

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45 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But what if you want clear? Or wish to use native lenses?? Or use a focul reducer?

True. But with a Built-in ND, I am guessing it may be difficult getting a focal reducer in the space as well. It would have absolutely the same issues as the one caused by the link I posted.

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22 minutes ago, sanveer said:

True. But with a Built-in ND, I am guessing it may be difficult getting a focal reducer in the space as well. It would have absolutely the same issues as the one caused by the link I posted.

Why? You can use a focal reducer with a Panasonic AF100 or Sony FS5 or Sony FS700 or Sony FS7, all of which also  have built in ND filters.

 

And has ZERO of the issues I meantioned about the ND adapter you linked to.

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9 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Why? You can use a focal reducer with a Panasonic AF100 or Sony FS5 or Sony FS700 or Sony FS7, all of which also  have built in ND filters.

 

And has ZERO of the issues I meantioned about the ND adapter you linked to.

Ok. My bad. I didn't know that. I assumed the space betweenthe sensor and the mount would have been the problem. Maybe they have super thin NDs, and some versions of focal reducers work (maybe only one version). Will have to check this. 

But thanks for the information. Seems quite interesting. In that case, Panasonic should get a click-less electronic ND filtwr like that on the Sony FS5 ... ;-)

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