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Sony FS5 RAW/Prores footage... where is it?


Jonesy Jones
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This is from another forum:

 

Hey Folks,
A lot of people were wondering about the quality of CDNG files from the FS5. I wanted to share an single frame test image I took with the FS5. You can open it in Photoshop or Resolve. I suggest playing with the RAW controls just to see how incredible the quality is. Take the exposure slider and pull it way up to around +1.5. Yes there's a bit of noise, but I think I could have overexposed by a couple of stops and not lost much in the highlights. The Odyssey 7Q+ ships with LUT's that help you overexpose. 
Notice that Photoshop opens the image at 16 bit. 
The lens is the Sony FE 4/16-35. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhu8ngin9i...00368.dng?dl=0
Enjoy!

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Worth quoting the comment from that latest Vimeo video shared:

Quote

The FS5 with the Raw upgrade, IMO, is one of the best cameras ever (for sure, the best value for money): cheap, small, lightweight, modular, powerful.
Great for run and gun and, with the Raw upgrade, it turns into a real monster. 
Someone should look at this and start shaking in their boots ^_^

The material recorded using the Raw FS5 output to Cinema DNG functionality of the 7Q+ does not conform exactly to the S-Log 2 curve.
You need to create a proper LUT or, if you use Da Vinci Resolve, you can follow this very interesting video guide: youtube.com/watch?v=FfFqXta5uA8
Yep, it's about the FS7 + Odyssey7Q, but the workflow with the FS5 + Odyssey7Q+ is exactly the same.
Here is the page where you can download FS5 LUTs: convergent-design.com/component/fss/?view=kb&kbartid=21&highlight=WyJsdXQiXQ==

 

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I find it weird though how soft the image comes out of it. Definitely not a real 4k resolution in the end. I own an NX1 but I was out on the market to get an FS5. I rented out an FS5 + shogun (no raw enabled just prores) and found some pros and cons. Potentially having 4K RAW 60p sounds really cool, but the FS5 is physically not the same beast after you add an external recorder + battery / ssd on it. It definitely gets closer to a C100/300. But hey you always have to make a compromise right :)  

That said I was a bit let down by the amount of details. I think it looks cinematic in a way  - maybe because it s soft. But now I'm thinking more of improving some softening techniques with my NX1. Not 100% decided though. So I'm dropping this video here, not trying to troll or anything I think both cameras are very interesting and both have their limits - you have to toy around with. Always interested to hear what the community has to say :) 

 

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4 hours ago, Django said:

it's a pretty well known fact that the 4K on the FS5 is soft & that the 4K on NX1 is overtly sharp. ironically people have been complaining about both these "issues"!

May be it's a well known fact. Most people, however, mix up sharpness and resolution. Both, it seems* (*see below), are related to detail. You can do like CSI detectives do in bad TV shows: take a muddy surveillance camera image (like FS5's :frown:) and emboss the outlines until faces become recognizable or plates in the distance become readable.

Tim Shoebridges NX-1 images show both characteristics, greater resolution (so-called 'real detail') AND an artificial sharpness. The people look as if just one more step up in in-camera sharpening would finally reveal that they were animated mummies made of sand grain. 

We never experience such a thing in real life. The objects before our eyes have infinite resolution, they also have infinite color depth. We find an image beautiful if it is soft (even blurred, see sDoF) with a surplus of resolution. This is not about detail. Our eyes are very bad cameras. The lenses are slow, the sensor only gets close to "HD" in it's center (fovea), with a permanent vignette around the FoV, blurred, dark and distorted. We focus on a given point of interest, we explore it, and we find no limits. Detail should better not be everywhere in the image. And it shouldn't look chiseled.

That's why both cameras don't produce nice images. (and there is another reason: colors. Looks like the FS5 wins there if it outputs ProRes or raw).

The better way was not to blur a sharpened image, but to switch off in-camera sharpening if that can be done.

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7 hours ago, neosushi said:

I find it weird though how soft the image comes out of it.

Do you also find weird how soft the image out of the Alexa is compared to an NX1?

Of course, the FS5 is no Alexa, but a 'softer' image does not mean a worse image than a sharper image, and it does not mean less resolution. There would be web videos where a comparison between a RED and a GH4 or NX1 would see the latter sharper. There are too many variables to compare too accurately, apart from the fact that sharpness or lack of it doesn't really make an image overall.

I find it weird that people complain about a camera being too soft, and then try and find a way to make their own camera just as soft looking.

In regards to that video, the test is very unscientific, and the stuff I've shot on FS5 has never looked that soft.

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You shot FS5 + Shogun, but without the raw upgrade? So, to be clear, the uncompressed (but still debayered/processed) image, out the HDMI or SDI, to the Shogun which processed/compressed it to ProRes?

Not really a fair way to assess the output with the raw upgrade, is it?

I admit it's probably a pretty small difference, but still... compare apples to apples.

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5 hours ago, aldolega said:

You shot FS5 + Shogun, but without the raw upgrade? So, to be clear, the uncompressed (but still debayered/processed) image, out the HDMI or SDI, to the Shogun which processed/compressed it to ProRes?

Not really a fair way to assess the output with the raw upgrade, is it?

I admit it's probably a pretty small difference, but still... compare apples to apples.

Where dis I assess anything about the quality of the raw image ? I only talked about what I have seen ;)

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22 minutes ago, aldolega said:

Right, but you're posting in a thread about the results from the raw upgrade... the natural implication then being that you think your non-raw results are relevant.

That's your interpretation.

I'm pretty sure the community is clever enough to read my post carefully. By the way the title of this post is : "Sony FS5 RAW/Prores footage... where is it?"

I wrote about Prores footage which is mentioned in the title. Now that this conversation about the conversation is over I suggest we get back to the topic...

16 hours ago, Django said:

it's a pretty well known fact that the 4K on the FS5 is soft & that the 4K on NX1 is overtly sharp. ironically people have been complaining about both these "issues"!

I agree, which was the whole point of the video. The "theory" of the reviewer is that it's better to go from too much detail and blur it a little bit, than sharpening a video. He also states that from his point of view, the NX1 is not over sharpened rather very rich in details. Personally I tested some gaussian blur on some NX1 footage and the results are interesting. But it's just one piece of the puzzle. I think the motion of the FS5 is nicer than the NX1. I have zero test to prove that it's just a personal feeling. 

10 hours ago, jax_rox said:

Do you also find weird how soft the image out of the Alexa is compared to an NX1?

Of course, the FS5 is no Alexa, but a 'softer' image does not mean a worse image than a sharper image, and it does not mean less resolution. There would be web videos where a comparison between a RED and a GH4 or NX1 would see the latter sharper. There are too many variables to compare too accurately, apart from the fact that sharpness or lack of it doesn't really make an image overall.

I find it weird that people complain about a camera being too soft, and then try and find a way to make their own camera just as soft looking.

In regards to that video, the test is very unscientific, and the stuff I've shot on FS5 has never looked that soft.

jax_rox : I love the image out of the Alexa. Actually I'm not criticizing the softness of the FS5 in general. What I am more critic about is the fact that it's not really a 4k camera IMHO. Now as a full hd delivering camera I think it's great. It's cinematic soft, but I'm not sure that he doesn't have less details than the Alexa. The Alexa is soft yes but detailed. I'd say the Alexa and the FS5 probably share the same output resolution. Which I wouldn't mind if I / my clients didn't want/need 4k. 

It would be interesting to have the EBU BBC tests on the FS5. They found the Alexa 2K is about the equivalent of a RED at 4K (talking about just resolution). Also I don't find the NX1 to be just sharp and the FS5 to be simply soft. The NX1 has much more details than the FS5. Personally the stuff I shot on the FS5 looks nothing compared to the NX1 in terms of details. But I find myself to also like the softness of the FS5. I would enjoy shooting with both, but simply not the same projects, and definitely not if my client wants 4K (for the FS5). 

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6 hours ago, Viet Bach Bui said:

It's quite obvious that something was wrong with the FS5 setup in that video. That is as soft as a 720p footage being played on a full HD screen. Anyway, I just found the videos below on Vimeo. I think the image's got great tonality and should handle well in post.

 

This stuff looks great. Please post more if you find it.

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Yes. I love the look and colors here. Nice. 

The most worrisome thing about the image with this camera seems to be noise in the darks/blacks. Apparently if you ETTR a bit with this camera, and crush the blacks in post, it greatly diminishes the noise. But this FS5 + RAW/ProRes is turning into an intriguing and amazing camera.

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