Daai

R6 is only 20 megapixel, no excuses really.
What is it doing differently to a 20 megapixel GH5 in 10bit 4K? to create so much extra "heat"? And that camera is 3 years older. Full frame sensor doesn't create a lot of extra heat.
What's it doing differently to an S1?!
Another example of the new-for-2020 style cripple hammer.

Very much agree, it's a new tactic from Canon based on usability rather than limiting specs. They've realised limiting specs hurt sales and brand reputation. So it's the same thing in different clothing now. Make the high-end features unusable. Apparently $4000 is not enough for Canon and they want the full $15,000 from you if you want high-end specs AND usability.
And this is from a company who wants us all to rush out and buy $2K RF lenses for our crippled $4K bodies?! They can fuck off.

Basically the timer kicks in whenever 8K or 4K HQ is enabled in the menus and there is a live-view feed on the LCD or EVF (even if it is hidden behind a menu overlay).
That's probably just how they implemented the cripple clock in firmware.
When the screen is off it probably disables the mechanism they are using to calculate run times... either by error, or on purpose to satisfy Atomos.
That the scorching hot ambient temps and black alloy casing absorbing so much external heat don't impact the timer, has to tell you something!

Canon Designer's team:
How long do you want this camera to record?
Canon Marketing team:
Don't bother about heating issue; we will put a timer to shut down the camera anyways and call it "overheating"
Just make sure we can put a 8K logo on our poster.




 

My thoughts exactly. Fix the issue and I honestly won't give a shit. I prefer RF mount, I prefer RF lenses, I prefer Canon colors, I prefer their dual pixel autofocus for video and I just prefer how canon footage looks compared to Sony. So like you said, me putting my foot down and going to another brand to "teach them a lesson!" only screws me over, since I would be switching to a camera that I personally do not want and in my eyes is inferior compared to the R5 as a true hybrid 50/50 photos and stills camera. Though to be honest, if they just leave the external recording at near unlimited - I am prob fine as is. Still, they need to say something and do something - they are getting absolutely roasted by everyone and rightfully so. I am hoping soon we see a firmware fix, because at the end of the day, I just care about my camera working to its potential. The crazy thing is Canon has so much going for them, but they keep shooting themselves in the foot. RF mount is already being adapted by folks like Red and it is a mount that can be used for years to come. Their RF lenses are absolutely incredible, with the 50 1.2 RF being the best prime lens I have ever used. Their rumored RF cinema cameras seem amazing and with great price points. And on paper the R5 is the best hybrid mirrorless camera ever made.
But yet, here we are because of their bullshit and because of this they once again are losing business. Canon seem to think folks are going to buy the R5 if its too good instead of their cinema cameras , but now they are just losing business all together, with folks avoiding ALL of their cameras in general. I wish I could just shake them and tell them to quit worrying about their damn cinema line, it has absolutely ruined their brand to a large growing group of filmmakers who are very very vocal. This is the same thing apple did when they turned their back on the pro community, hate started to grow and grow by creative folks and their brand took a huge hit with the people that actually influenced who bought their computers and made them popular to begin with - creative folks. Luckily, apple have slowly started to rebuild their image in creative circles with better Macs. So with Canon, they need to realize the people that are going to buy their cinema line are going to buy it no matter what, because they need ND, better DR, XLR, a fan, etc. 

I'm not sure if this is adding a layer of pessimism or removing one, but could this be a PR strategy?
I mean, put out a camera with huge specs, then cause huge controversy due to overheating, then issue a "sorry, we've fixed it now, honest mistake!" firmware update, and watch the sales roll in.....
Look at how many people are talking about the 12K Ursa vs the 8K Canon - the headline didn't last but this is keeping up the emotion and sensation.
It's the best of both worlds - play the fanboys off against the Canon-bashers, and either no-one finds the cripple hammer and it pushes the cine line or someone does find it and it blows up again....    and all PR is good PR.

Do we need anything new to already know it? ; )
It's embarrassing to say the least...
1992. A further VP of Sony Europe told me to count on it along my career because these practices are part of this industry.
2020. A couple of new novelties today though: digital revolution and internet.

The problem is I don't think Canon is going to "fix" the issue since it was never really a problem for them.
They probably intended to cripple the higher end video modes but got carried away.
Canon Rumors is reporting that the rumored firmware is going to do the following:
Addition of Cinema RAW light option to 8K recording Addition of CLog 3 Increased record time limits (but don’t expect a huge boost) Various bug fixes They are probably going to increase the record times to match the stated record limits that they published but not much more.
The R5/R6 still won't be great for hybrid shooters since the published record limits were really short.
 

I suspected Canon to cripple this camera somehow, someway but this artificial heat limit and recovery time is really out of line. Such arrogance!
But you know what? Canon may think they control the market but we have the power to control them by boycotting Canon. Especially nowadays with the camera industry bleeding as it is. Force Canon to stop this BS. How?
If you already purchased the camera, return it. If you have it on order, cancel it. Cancel all orders with Canon. Write letters to Canon showing your disgust. Call Canon and voice your disapproval. Fight Canon with your pocketbook. Stop the BS.

Absolutely.
Sigma and Panasonic are my top picks

If there is indeed a hardware problem such as the LSI running too hot or certain parts of the chip not turning off when idle, then Canon may have originally developed this kind of temperature monitoring system to keep things in check.
But the fake element of it is that the actual temps my camera is reporting are nowhere near problematic and the recovery timer is completely out of whack with both ambient temps and the actual cool down temps of the electronics.
So it is likely they found a convenient outlet in the temp management system for a classic Cripple Hammer.
I want answers from Canon and I will be seeking them starting tomorrow.

So going back to the actual internal design of the EOS R5...
The questions Canon need to answer are:
1. Why is a circuit board sitting between the main CPU and back casing, blocking the heat from spreading away into the chassis
2. Of course, why is there no thermal conductive material on the CPU?
3. And why does the RAM thermal pad overlap onto the CPU, but not entirely cover it? (It seems to spread the heat from the RAM onto the CPU which is never a good idea).
4. Why does ice not cool the camera and speed up recovery time? The firmware recovery countdown timer is so slow to go back up and always the same.
And indeed they will be asked via my contact at Canon UK.
And I won't let up until they answer.
If they don't answer, they have something to hide obviously.

That is evident.
Ah so it's ok then. The whole release is hyped as an 8K pro video tool with 4k 120p but because Canon slipped some best-case scenario disclaimers into a CVP video, they're off the hook!
The real overheating data should go something like this:
8K from cold - 20 min if you're lucky
8K about 10 mins into a shoot - 10 mins maximum
8K after a few stills - 5 mins
8K limit after a few stills and the Wifi menu - 0 mins!
And the marketing should say something like:
"Getting through any kind of video shoot, even filming your pet poodle for 10 mins with the powerful new EOS R5??... You'll be lucky!"
That would be far more honest in my view.
But yeah, no false advertising!! Did you actually READ any of the PR or Canon website?
WHY DO PEOPLE NOT READ OR LEARN BASIC FACTS BEFORE SPOUTING OPINIONS???
“On the set of high-end productions such as commercials, dramas and documentaries, the EOS R5 is an ideal partner to the likes of Canon’s brand-new EOS C300 Mark III”
“Set to redefine mirrorless, today’s update confirms the incredible recording capabilities of the EOS R5 including internal 8K RAW up to 29.97fps and suitability with high-end production workflows”
“The EOS R5 boasts features seen only in high-end cinema cameras many times its price point and video features no other mirrorless camera on the market offers.”
“Created as a direct response to growing demand for content creators to shoot both high-quality film and stills, the EOS R5 holds its own as the lead camera in productions – going over and above industry standards and achieving outstanding 8K.”
 
Yeah sure. Sure it does.

Exactly, we pay the money for a product described a certain way and we expect it to work.
Also, Canon used the spec sheet to generate a wave of positive hype and good publicity ahead of the pre-orders.
Then they slipped us the shitty little note about limited recording times due to heat, and assumed we'd all accept it and go "ah, gotcha!"
What kind of company is this?
And why should I ever trust them again??
Yep, as I said in my article... You would not even build a budget PC with no thermal paste!!
Yet Canon build a $4000 camera without it on the main CPU.
It's fucking disgraceful.

If Canon indeed did this on purpose I will be another one joining the camp of users jumping ship (probably to Sony or maybe going back to Nikon).
This is not the way a company should treat its customer base. We pay dearly with our hard-earned cash just to be sold an obviously defective product.
And do note that I’m an engineer by trade and this issue of not using any thermal solution in the CPU is either a monumental engineering error (which should *not* have happened as this is a basic error not event a recently-graduated engineer would do) which should result in Canon firing whoever is behind these stupid designs, or something very fishy which smells to having been done on purpose, in which case Canon deserves to be sued.
 

You are wrong.
I cannot legally advertise a product I've made as a professional cinematography camera, when it is in fact a banana.
I cannot please my customers or make good business selling something as "8K capable" when it isn't.
To say every company does it is just not true. In fact if they tried it, they'd be on wrong side of the law and wrong side of their customers.
Can you imagine the fury if your iPhone started overheating 1 hour into the day and you had to turn it off for 30 mins?
I am very baffled as to why you think Canon can get away something similar... because it's a camera.
No, they advertised it a certain way, and even the late admission of heat limited recording times is misleading because of how the camera behaves 10-20 mins after being switched on, or 30 mins into a stills shoot.

This is the nonsense I see on DpReview.  Apparently the camera is excused for not working reliably as its not a Professional video camera.  So why does it have 8K RAW, or 120fps 4K then?  Why provide such top video features only to cripple them?  And why is it so wrong to wish that they work as the customer requires, especially if you're paying over £4k for it.  I have video and photo functions on my phone.  Its neither a dedicated video or photo camera, yet I still expect these functions to work reliably.  Basic stuff.  How well would a phone do, if it advertised a limit on say web browsing.  You get 15 mins then it overheats and you'll have to switch off for a few hours before you can browse again.  It would be laughed at.
Canons description of the overheating limits is half a story.  There are some crucial inconsistencies their figures don't address.  Canon offered us a hybrid camera and advertised it as such.  The S1H is also a hybrid and not a true cinema camera; yet is far more reliable shooting HQ video.  Compare the R5 to that and not cinema cameras and you'll see what some of us were actually hoping for.

The camera seems to completely ignore ambient temp
It carries on ticking the clock down... 15 mins, 10 mins, 5 mins...
This is after just 1m 3sec of 8K recording, the rest of the time the camera was sat idle in live-view (8K enabled in the menus).
The video mode you enable in the menu seems to set the timer.
And after that not even liquid nitrogen seems to make the counter go up.
All seems very fishy to me.
I was down to 5 mins after applying the ice.
To the touch the camera felt like an iceberg from top to bottom. I even had it on a bag of frozen chips at one point, but realised the chips were melting and I wanted to eat them for dinner the next day.
 

The guy in that chinese owner thread let aircon blow for half hour after the camera overheated,  it can still only do 5min 8k or 10min 4k even though the body is really cold and even got condensation around it, so definitely some dodgy firmware trick there..

Thanks @androidlad
This is the kind of post we need more of.

"It seems as soon as there is a card inserted, an overheating countdown timer starts, but doesn’t apply when an HDMI device is attached and the card removed"
These get very fishy. I had commented in another post about suspicion and my crazy paraonic theory that the overheating limit is only a limit made by firmware, nobody believed me... Now I believe it more firmly, but we still have to wait for the truth to come out.
For me, Canon's credibility is at stake in all of this.
 

Who cares about a workaround for 4K24p?? Every camera does that since a long time. There is no workaround for 4K60p and 120p, recording externally is not option otherwise we would use proper cine camera if weight and size wasn't an issue. 
I am fine working with time limitations to get those heat producing features (like 15min max in 4K120) as long as taking stills / be in the menus do not lower those limitations and as long as the camera recovers similarly to any other camera on the market, and not in 2+ hours like it seems to be the case. 
For me it has never been about the initial time recording limitation, which are understandable, but about the recovery time and the camera heating by itself when on. The latter is what makes the camera barely usable for any usage and could have EASILY been avoided by Canon technically as proven by competitors. It's likely that they did make it more thermally efficient by purpose / and or put software limitation. If they actually did their best, which I do not believe a second, then they should fire the whole company (with managers first) and start from 0 or stick with making printers. What a joke. 
I went from "amazing, finally" when announced to "still great" when we heard about recording limitations to "WTF is this BS" when we found out that the camera is actually almost unusable for video due to the above. 
On top of that, my camera ordered day 1 still did not ship with no date in sight. That's actually probably a good thing since if Canon doesn't fix this I am afraid my testing period will very likely end up with a return. 

At the weekend I bought the enigma that is the EOS R5 for myself. Foto-Meyer in Berlin were able to find me a rare unit. A huge thank you to them! What all EOS R5 owners have in common is that they have paid a lot of money for a professional video tool. We pay the money, we get to decide what happens next, and I'll be reaching out to Canon and making this clear. We need to ask them to work on a solution for overheating. It's worse than you can possibly imagine.
Just need to get something straight - my purchase is NOT an endorsement of the EOS R5. I bought it purely to cover the camera on EOSHD and to help work on fixes for the many issues this camera has. It is in no way a dependable tool for 8K, RAW, oversampled 4K, 4k 60p or 4K 120fps in the state that it's in. At the very maximum it is a pixel binned 4K 30p camera similar to the Sony A7R IV with the benefits of Canon's colour science, 10bit codec, top LCD and better ergonomics. Actually that doesn't sound so bad does it?! But this is not how it's sold to us - it is supposed to be a $4k all singing, all dancing, cutting edge 8K/4K video tool and that's how it should perform in the real world.
Read the full blog post:
https://www.eoshd.com/news/i-bought-a-canon-eos-r5-and-it-overheated-in-the-wifi-menu-also-a-look-at-potential-solutions/

Imagine they release a firmware fix that removes their media alert limits. It will be the first official admission that they used cripple hammer. Its embarrassing either way. 

Seems fishy to me.