Video Hummus

6 hours ago, forofilms said:

Not a fan of Tony Northrop. But...

Huge body.

Insanely expensive lenses. 

Cropped 4K60p.

Dubious AF performance. 

Image still has the veneer of video (imho). 

Not a dud but far from the perfect camera. 

Still better than Canon R and RP. 

Just came from Tony’s Myth V Reality Canon RP addition (with a RP giveaway!!!) No crapping on anybodies dreams there. Just a relaxed hand waving and “who needs this or that” line.

Watch them side by side (S1 vs RP) and tell me this man isn’t full of a bunch of canon $100 bills.

watch for yourself if you can stomach it. You might win the turd of a camera he is giving away!

No DPAF in 4K

Weird exclusion of 1080p 24fps

Everybody is slow clapping Canon. 

I will be surprised if it has good DPAF in 4K. If it does have no crippled DPAF with a 1.5x crop at the rumored price point then they have something very interesting and a lot of mad EOS R owners. 

5 hours ago, Django said:

Canon is the only major camera manufacturer that still develops its own sensors in-house. Just about every other camera brand goes to Sony, who have cutting-edge sensor technology.

So yes, Canon are behind in sensor tech which explains the recycling of old sensors in their current mirrorless cameras.

They have acknowledged the 4K crop limitation and are said to be actively working on it. 

We’re all hoping the new sensors will appear on the upcoming pro model later this year (1DX2 already being the Canon camera with the least crop & RS in 4K).

If Canon would release a camera without some major gotchas at a decent price range, I'd buy one. But it seems they always cripple some aspect of the camera that is hard to compromise for to push you up into the $4K price range. I mean, we are buying gear that costs as much as a decent used car, why should I have to choose between 1.7x 4K crop with sub-par (but not dealing breaking in most cases, but can ruin your day when you need to push your gear) RS in 2019? Or no DPAF in 4K (which I think the RP will have; hope not!). I'm actually not very excited for 2019 because Sony has started an arms race and owns the sensor market and I feel like Worse is Better is going to win out.

Canon would do well if released a good mirrorless camera sub $3K without their stupid crippling segmentation strategy. Their new mirrorless entries really feel like old tech with a fresh coat of paint and some lipstick. Not even evolutionary, just relying on the fact that DPAF is still not quite matched.

I would hope Panasonic would focus on:

Increased DR - At least 2 extra stops
Thick internal codecs - H265 and a high bitrate ALL-I
External RAW output
Dual ISO - Improved lowlight performance over GH5
Improved manual focus features
Improved autofocus (because everybody wants it and whines about it)

Don't care much about 8K.

21 minutes ago, anonim said:

 

Nothing will beat a three axis gimbal but with some ninja waking and some stabilization I’ll take this over shaking footage if that’s the look I’m going for. 

44 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

The Fast and Furious franchise - as just one example - shows if the explosions are big enough and the story is an afterthought, people will still watch. Films like F&F are easy to translate to non-english speaking audiences, so they have the potential to reach a wider audience globally. Netflix is still relatively new as a creator, and they're certainly trying to cover a lot of bases with original content, some works better than others. But they're still cranking out a number of great shows and original films. Just like any studio, there will be duds.

Yes, I agree. Throw enough money at something with the right faces and it will still make money. 

It’s Canon. It will be 4K without DPAF. ?

7 hours ago, anonim said:

But examples of IBIS from that review unfortunately don't look too revolutionary compelling for me.

Uh, they looked almost like GoPro hypersmooth levels. Did you watch it at 13:30? It’s the best IBIS we’ve seen so far, I’m not saying it’s a revolution. 

I think the most compelling feature in this camera is the IBIS.

Watch starting somewhere at 13:30.

Man, I wish Panasonic would release something in this form factor with 4K @ 120p and 2.5K @ 240p, dual ISO around 800 and 3200, and beefy codecs. Like a mini Kinefinity Terra 4K for around $2,300 that takes native MFT glass and has GH levels of water / weather sealing.

On 2/3/2019 at 1:38 AM, sanveer said:

I couldn't agree more. The emphasis on expensive equipment and expensive cast and crew is stubbornly stupid. Plus writers in most jurisdictions aren't paid enough and plagiarists aren't punished enough.

If VoD platforms kept a fund for 100 Feature Films under 100k, and ensured that the stories were great, they wouldn't have to think of most of the rubbish. The problem is VoD platforms have not been able to separate themselves from the over budget Hollywood rubbish they are attempting to replace.

Suddenly there are so many VoD platforms that no one player is probably making enough. And until they improve their content and budget better, they don't deserve to. 

Yes, this 100%. Sometimes a lot of the Netflix Originals just look and feel like they are trying too hard. When some of the better movies and films are simply about story and less with all the crazy explosions and fancy (and expensive) special effects and stuff. If the story is good, viewers don't care!

1 hour ago, kye said:

I'm estimating that it'll probably be part of the GH7 but not before.  It would be great if I'm wrong, but I'm not optimistic.

I'm thinking GH6. I have higher doubts that there will be a GH7 in 4 years.

On 1/31/2019 at 11:01 PM, webrunner5 said:

Canon doesn't Own Metabones, and Canon doesn't have a Speedbooster??

Oh, I'm mistaken. I thought canon had some investment into that company. Sorry about that.

I own a GH5S. It's brilliant. Low light is not a problem. DoF is really not a problem. I can shoot in C4K at 60p with a 1.8x crop factor. I have the creative freedom to shoot at 180 FPS for a particular shot. I can put a speedbooster on it and slap a Canon EF lens on it and have a 1.15x crop factor (a 70-200mm F2.8 will be a 80.5-230 F3.2 DoF)! I have a great lens selection, because I can adapt almost ANY LENS onto my camera! I have great built in preamps. I have a great native XLR hotshoe adapter for my camera. I have VERY useable autofocus for vlog style shots or something that doesn't need precision AF. I can slap on a 100-400mm f2.8-4 MFT (full frame eq.) telephoto lens that can fit in my f*king pocket and cost 80% the price and 40% the weight.

Micro 4/3 is a great system. I think it's best strengths are in video, especially. I think thats why Olympus is a hard sell anymore. Look at the Kinefinity Terra 4K. It's got basically the same sensor as the GH5s / BMPC4K and can do up to 4K 100fps and 2K up to 240fps. The video is gorgeous. The mount options are extremely flexible. And it's under $10K.

People that say M4/3 isn't good don't know what they're talking about or are so biased they can't admit there are things out there that rival whatever they like.

It can do lowlight (and as sensors improve this won't be an argument anymore)
It can do extreme telephoto inexpensively and without much bulk
It has DoF advantages for telephoto shots
It can be adapted to do shallow DoF if you need it
It allows more creative frame rates in a smaller package (smaller sensor, less heat, etc...)
It can do built in IBIS better than larger sensors (smaller sensor, less inertia, better IBIS...look at the Oly E1X for example...it's basically a built in gimbal)
It can still take great photos
It can take 50MP to 80MP photos of landscapes with Pixel shift tech.

It can't do anything larger than 8K.
It can't replicate exactly the "full frame look".
It can't boost your ego if all you care about is sensor size.
 

Yes, I'm a M4/3 fanboy because the GH5S is a great video camera. The mount is very flexible. The tech in the latest rounds of M4/3 cameras makes it even more flexible. But in general the entire M4/3 system has an image problem because people just can't seem to get over that tiny looking sensor.

At the same time I can see the benefits of full frame cameras and I see advantages in owning both systems. I really wanted Panasonic to knock it out of the park with the S line. I hope they can improve upon the initial launch specs, because it looks like a great camera.

I think that’s more Panasonic justifying their use of DfD contrast detection than the downsides of PDaf because despite image artefacts the market says people don’t seem to care or notice (or at least prefer better AF over image artefacts).

They must believe they have the capability to make DfD work. I think DfD af in the latest cameras does pretty good in most situations. I think as the processors get faster and AI rountines get better at tracking objects DfD might come into its own.

Or Panasonic is developing something else in the meantime and doesn’t want to pay licensing fees to Sony to incorporate PDAf tech in their sensors which means higher margins for them.

Its been good enough for me in the GH5s for when it made sense.

46 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

That has nothing to do with the state of M43. We're 2 years from the launch of the GH5, a M43 camera that is one of the most critically acclaimed and financially successful cameras from that period. The GH6, as long as it continues to innovate, will likely be as successful. There is no evidence that the GH series will be taking a backseat to the S series. It'd make no sense for it to. 

For whatever reason Olympus decided to release an old camera in a larger body, with hardly any new features and threw a $3000 price tag on it. It's a bummer, because it's another bad sign for Olympus, but I don't see how you can associate it with the health of M43.

Yes. I thinks it’s more Olympus dropping the ball a bit. Not that M4/3 is dead. I’m actually more sure we will see a video focused GH6 in the future. 

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

 Oh one last thing.... the system needs to be less costly... the price of admission is too high for what it is. 

I agree. I was surprised with that agressive pricing. Maybe release high and offer high discounts?

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

Yes, no mention... unless you have the presence of mind to actually bother to read the comments, where a viewer asked the question... "Were these shots in HD or 4k?" and the person who created the video answered, saying, "4K". 

But go ahead and live in that world where the rolling shutter on this camera is sooooo bad that it will ruin all shots that involve any movement. And as for your suggestions... done that... guess what... NOT AN ISSUE. For the record... IBIS helps with micro jitters, but if you plan to walk around you would be better served with a gimbal.

I never said it would ruin all shots. Just specific ones. I find it hard to believe you had no issues because I’ve done the same on the A7iii and had some rolling shutter evident in the shot. The EOS R 4K RS is far worse and more likely to ruin fast moving shots. But it’s fine. You like your camera. Go shoot with it and make great content. Only camera gear heads like us care what something was shot on ?

If RS didn’t matter we wouldn’t be measuring sensor read out speeds. Expensive cinema cameras wouldn’t have global shutters. And the EOS R would be a slightly better camera.

48 minutes ago, DBounce said:

?oh noooos not the rolling shutter! Really, how many people actually have a problem with rolling shutter ruining their shots in real world usage? Do you seriously film wip pans exclusively?

 

Nice. No mention if he was filming in 4K or 1080p. 4K is much worse.

Have a vlogger use it (it’s got a flip screen right perfectly made for it) have them film in 4K.  Whoops it’s got a 1.7x crop that even at 16-35mm will feel close. Have them walk around filming in 4K and you will feel like you are on acid in some whackey fun house mirror room every time they swing the camera to show you something.

Take a nice ride on a train, a car, or a bus if you prefer. Film out the window in 4K. Doesn’t matter?

Filming some birds in 4K. You track them as you pan with their flight. Enjoy the jello telephone polls, lamp posts, and trees.

It matters.

3 minutes ago, Django said:

$1300 for a FF stills & Super35 4K video cam with CLog & DPAF sounds like a pretty sweet deal if true.

That totally undercuts the FF competition, and even XT3 on price alone.

Seems very unlike Canon to me, but maybe EOS R / RF lenses aren’t selling enough and with their recent expectation of the market shrinking substantially they’ve decided to get super aggressive in attempt to get max people on board their new system ? 

 

Yes, as long as DPAF isn't crippled in some silly (canon) way and the TERRIBLE EOS R rolling shutter is improved, then yes it will be a good camera.

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

It’s an overpriced system right out of the gate. The most expensive vs Canon, Nikon and Sony. Given the premium price, it’s expected it would trump all others in performance... which clearly it does not. The S1/R are Mediocre cameras in this company, with only minor improvements in select areas... where they fail to deliver on important features. 

Perhaps gen two will be better?

Seems to compete in price with the EOS R. Both the are in the $2400 range. Both have similarly expensively priced glass (canon's maybe a bit more intriguing to me) but I'd say the S1 is a better hybrid camera.

5 hours ago, DBounce said:

Within the limitations is where you need to work... not just with the R... with all cameras. I use 4K all the time on the R. Yes there’s a crop... that’s been covered to death. But the image it produces is quite good. IMO, more filmic/cinematic than both Sony and Nikon. 

Side-by-side, comparing to the Z6, I can tell you that the Nikon’s is the more detailed image. The Sony produces a similarly detailed image. The problem is, for me at least, neither of these images feels very cinematic. They feel like video. Don’t get me wrong, they are certainly technically superior; and in low-light both handily outperform the Canon. But here in lies the problem. Regardless of technical superiority, the Canon just looks better. It looks organic. It moves better. And while the Canon cannot hope to compete at nose bleed ISOs, it works well up to 6400 or so, with noise looking more like film grain than the horrible confetti we are all too use to seeing.

Now here is the problem... while you can certainly sharpen the Canon image, there is no method I am aware of that can recreate the organic qualities that the Canon produces. I spent about two months comparing footage from these cameras. Trying to match to my C200 which is of course pretty flexible in post. During the course of this testing I tried numerous techniques, in an attempt to replicate the organic look that the EOS R could produce. I added filters to the lenses. Tried vintage glass. Used post processing... nothing... and I mean nothing could convincingly reproduce the filmic/organic feel of the Canon. Finally, frustrated and frankly, disappointed I opted to switch to the EOS R and part with the other “superior” cameras.

My conclusion: Cinema is art... and art is not a technical exercise. While the others are without doubt better spec wise, that means little if they fail to produce an image that you love.

I’m positive that if you search around you can find some awful EOS R footage. But I can tell you right now... that’s operator error... not the camera. In the right hands this camera can produce impressive imagery.

I respect your opinion and experience here. Much like with cars, it can go fast but still be an ugly car at the end of the day. The classics always have something special about them. I guess I just don't think I value that canon "special sauce" as much as you do for the prices they want for it. I think companies like Fuji and Panasonic are creeping up in this area with competitive products. I also think the "special sauce" is a decade or more of visual bias caused by watching A LOT of media shot on Canon cinema cameras.

At the end of the day I think we are all constantly seeking confirmation that we have the best tool because we spent our hard earned money on it. Especially if we spent a lot and feel threatened by newer gear. I just prefer not to feed the canon segmentation machine.

13 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Have you shot with the EOS R?

A friend has one and so I’ve had some hands on time with it. He had only EF lenses because the RF ones cost a kidney. So that is my limit with it. The auto focus was worst than the 5DmIV and as a 1080p camera it was decent. But I’m not gonna pay 2500 for that shite in 2019. Yes it has canon colors. But imo, there are other great baked in colors form Panasonic and to an extent newer Sony bodies. The touch pad is a mistake in my opinion.

I was poking fun after Peter sold it as his next camera because the limitations would make him a better professional ?‍♂️. Yet he doesn’t use it for anything but stills. That’s telling. Tony says it’s a great “family cam”. OKAY.

The R is not as good as Canon could do. That’s the sad part and I think this RP is the same story.

The real question is, but when is Peter McKinnon switch to the EOS RP?

16 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Wasn't Sony kind of pioneering mirrorless tho? I do think the S1 is a great camera, well besides video auto focus. All four mirrorless FF cameras have strong points. 

Yes they were and compared to other things on the market at the time they were considered “toy” cameras and Pro wannabes.

All things considered with this camera, Panasonic did a good job here. I’m mean look at the EOS R. It’s a utter trash hybrid camera. Even the Dpaf in that thing isn’t quite as good as what I’ve seen with the S. I think panasonic did a bad job here with tempering people’s expectations of this camera and what it’s aimed at. Most people want a pretty good hybrid full frame option. Panasonic at least attempted it, unlike Canon.

I hope Panasonic can make this a success. Otherwise we have less and, imho, worst options out there.