Kisaha

@herein2020the little front switch is convenient because you do not have to take your hands from the camera, or your eye from the viewfinder, and not all RF lenses have the switch..

I am used to work with 2 high wheels (front/back) and the lower back for ISO.

The wheel with the joystick is far up and far left for my fingers! Maybe it's my fingers!

In general speakings. There is an R8 that haves everything you want, and it is called R6mkII. Please, be my guest.

This is an entry level camera that in my opinion is much better than the one that replaces, and that can be used even professionally for some projects. If someone wants a different tool, why it is so important, that it won't be this camera?!

If you have to know, very limited production companies use the equipment we usually discuss here, and that is only in the lower level in the industry if they do. do you believe that a production company, or even a TV station are using Fuji or Panasonic S cameras?! Or shooting ads with Sony A7iv?

Most of the ads are Alexa/Red anyway, and in TV, it was always about (higher) C and FS, and now FX are doing great, replacing everything in the low end. There are also the smaller sensored broadcast cameras, but that's another world altogether..

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

On the switch this is really nitpicking... R5c has the switch on the left side. R5 does not even have the switch but you need to program a button and imo is worst as you can hit it by mistake as I do sometime and I hate it. So imo on the switch R8 > R5.
R7 has two wheels one for the index finger and one on the back but place much higher .... R8 has two wheels too one for the index finger and one that you can reach with your thumb on top like the R5, R5c, R3 and so on... it seems to me that the R7 is the strange one here.... if the R7 would have had 3 wheels maybe but it again it only has 1 joystick more....
 
I can understand that for your usage or preference you like the ergonomics of the R7 better, but claiming that the R8 has bad ergonomics is a bit of a long shoot.

I "hate" the wheel with the joystick, it doesn't cut it for me.

The wheel on the R8 at the top (where the ON/OFF is) is a second wheel; that would be Very good. Even lower for the back wheel would have been amazing (it is so easy to do it right, look at the NX1 and NX500 to see how easy it is to implement it right..).

R7 has a nice front dial for AUTO/MANUAL focus which I don't remember having it on another camera, and it is brilliant. The joystick/wheel, not really..

I tend to shoot a lot less when I have only my phone.

When I have a dedicated camera I will take more, and 99%, better photos and videos.

Is the ZV-1 really equal to a phone?

I used to carry the NX500 with a couple of tiny pancakes primes (depending the trip) and the tiny 16-50 Power zoom..(in this bag https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/999866-REG/samsung_ed_cc3n90n_large_bag_for_all.html/accessories)

Latest trips I am bringing the R7 with an 18-135 and a couple of primes (depending again the situation and my preference at that moment in time)..(in this bag https://www.ebay.com/itm/304435980148)

The difference is the bag!

If I could have a dedicated camera with me, that would be the best.

Whatever entry level APS-C or mFT will do fine with a clever selection of lenses (maybe a small zoom and just a prime).

Or a nice high end compact like the ZV-1 and a couple of accessories.

Many great cameras out there!

Especially for video. There is no argument about it.

Having seen almost everything in the last 3 decades, the value for money we are getting right now is unbelievable.

Ask me for any camera in the market, and I can tell you 5 things that it does amazingly well that you couldn't even do 10 years ago..

Just embrace and enjoy!

@newfoundmassyou are talking about the One and only camera that had those benefits 5 years ago..but me and many others didn't own that camera, and we didn't want to..

However, I get where you are coming from, and I said it, but you are not reading the words. GH5 was an amazing tool at the time, so good, that most people still using them I do not see them go for the GH6.

I still use the GH5 on a specialized TV series I am working occasionally. I do not want to comment about the GH5, for me was just a great, souless, tool, but not for me to purchase. Also, that job is typical of the GH5 user case. Run faster than Usein Bolt and gun them like you are in Ukraine..I hate those kind of jobs, and that is why I probably never liked this camera.

For more personal projects, more controlled, photography, live performances and almost everything in between, I never missed anything of GH5!

Also, there is a little thingy called the TRIPOD, most GH5 users, sorry, and I am talking from personal experience, they do not even carry a tripod with them!

I, once, had a heavy argument with a director because he didn't want me to use tripod for static shots of cars (it was an auto show), and probably I lost that job from that reason also!

I have gimbals, the Flowtech with an FSB head, some Edelkrones, and optical stabilizer of course on so many lenses..

The R8 is not at all like the GH5/6, if you need the GH5, you are very happy, you are set, you own that camera. I do not understand what is your issue here!

I am saying that is a great camera FOR SOME, and I explained my user case as much as I could..

The worrying part is the fact that you can't comprehend how this is a very attractive camera for 1.500$ for a huge part of the specific market, and why it matters so much!

I didn't have a Canon camera since the 60D(!) but the first RF releases (R and RP) were laughable, but, in my opinion, they have started delivering, not 100% yet, but they are in a nice roll lately. 

The R7 was a great release, and this R8 is quite good in my opinion. If the R6mkII comes down to 2.350€ soon, that would be great also (is 3.150€ right now, a good release, with an impossible price, so, not that good!).

For a dozen of years I didn't own a Canon, so definitely not a fan boy, they started to appeal to some, why not to admit it?

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Say what you want about Panasonic marketing, but these deals make people want to move into the system. They're getting great value at that price. I've seen the original S5 with those two lenses for under 2000 euros.

That 2 lenses combo is the best deal in the market right now.. very tempting..

Good point about the Meike adapter, I have it for my RF right now and has many benefits.

I would like to know more about the adapted EF lenses on the S.

There are small differences between the adapted EF and the native RF lenses I believe..small but existent.

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Yes, I'm serious. And if you don't think a FF camera at a comparable price point with better specs won't be announced in the next 6 to 12 months then you don't follow the camera industry. 

My comments aren't because I'm a Canon hater, they're because it's an average release with one standout feature. The R7 is a better option, and I gave Canon credit on this forum when it was announced. 

If you're fine spending $1500 on a camera that lacks IBIS, has only one card slot, terrible battery life, poor ergonomics, etc. because it has full frame 4K60p then cool. But your opinion is no more valid than mine. 

You wouldn't be able to buy anything in your life, ever! Have you ever bought a car??!! That would be a nightmare for you!

1500$ is ace, only it isn't 1.500€ for us Europeans.

IQ and speed are the number 1 in video cameras, and this one has those 2 sorted.

IBIS being so important is just laughable for me..does the Pocket cameras have IBIS? Did your cameras for 3-4 years ago? Your Canon C cameras of yesteryear? The Alexa's of this world? I have to work with GH5 sometimes and they make me work with IBIS and I hated it.

Same with one slot, it isn't preferable, but we were workings with one slot (or 1 film, which was worst!) for decades..

The battery is an issue, but the size and weight needs compromises.

I explained myself earlier, it could have been a perfect fit for my needs.

It may isn't for you, but the world is a big place with - probably too - many peoples.

5 hours ago, Django said:

Ouch that hurts! EU has about 30% increase from US prices (20% VAT + 10% markup) for Sony & Canon products. It looks like your country has 40%!

Brazil I think is the worst. I'd advise grey market at that point. 😉 

What is strange and works strongly in the favour of Panasonic is that here their gear is only 19% more than the US. That's less than VAT meaning Panny not only doesn't do a markup, they cut off a percent from their margins for the EU market. Smart strategy that I'm sure pays off!

It won't, but maybe it will! GH4 and 5 were great successes, not other models though..Olympus were selling more for casual use.

now people still using their GH5 cameras and they see no big reason to move to GH6..even in Japan you see that Panasonic is far behind everyone else.. Actually, Panasonic and Fuji didn't have a single camera at the top 10 for 2022, and Fuji sold more cameras in total..

I checked at CVP, is 1925€ for the R8 body only..do you see different prices in France?

R6mkII is 3.150€ in CVP, so not different than my countries prices, they seem like normal EU prices (ok, CVP is 10-20€ cheaper..).

I do not usually support anything grey(!), but I need more the tax/vat benefits anyway..

..and I was so enthusiastic..I am seriously considering going L all the way now, I just have to sell so many things it's unbelievable..

and now for something completely different!

First pre-order price here 1.939€ (body only ofcourse)!!

R6mkII is 3.200€, a price for the R8 closer to 1.650 (that I was expecting/hoping the price to be) is almost half the money of the R6mkII. They both are way overpriced for what they are, so I am going to pause for a while..

I do not agree that this is the "wrong" camera for the forum though. It is a comprehensive proposition for 1.500$, just not for 1939€!

In the end, is the placement in the market that matters..a few hundred money(sic) can make or brake a product. Any product.

I was checking these 2 new lenses also..oh my..what a (or two) joke(s)..

The S5iiX and 2 lenses are 3.000$ and the 20-60 is thousands times more usable, and that 50mm 1.8f seems ace..

3 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

I thinks R7 vs R8 is a much harder call.... R8 has FF, much better rolling shutter 15 vs 30ms "to be confirmed", 4k 60 super sampled but no IBIS and lame battery, maybe worst ergonomics but smaller and lighter.... R7 has IBIS and S35 if you need reach or want to use APS-C lenses but line skipping 4k 60 and pretty severe rolling shutter in HQ.

The good news that they are both available so people can pick the one that fits their needs the most. 

In my case I believe they will be complement each other pretty nice..

With almost the price of an R6mkII one can have a 2 camera setup covering most bases..

I am still a S35 sympathizer, so the full frame option will be just a bonus for me for the occasional use, and mainly in photography I guess..

Ibis I do not use, external recorders not, the battery is my main concern, and that mainly for disturbing the harmonious workflow!

Of course the overheating will be an issue, if it goes for an hour straight in hot climates I will be alright..

R7 has IBIS which is still a good tool to have, HUGE work time per battery, 2 card slots that you want from your main tool, great recording times and no obvious overheating issues, and I believe that's that..but pretty important differences to categorize the crop camera as a PRO tool..I am not saying that the R8 can't be, I have seen anything in my lifetime(!), but R7 brings more confidence to your pro workflow.

When I was doing event photography I was using 2-3 cameras. For performance videos 3-4 cameras. In any job I am carrying with me 2 cameras (I always have backup options with me). I just can't believe I can do that now with RF for such a low price..

I probably have to sell some NX stuff now! Keep only a couple of bodies and some lenses.

The other side of course is lenses, which is a tragic tale to discuss..I will tell you what I have in NX and why that was one of the most amazing systems for APS-C sensors ( for a dead system that operated in such a small timeframe).

- amazing pro S lenses (16-50 to 150mm from 2-2.8f!! Just unique)

- amazing tiny pancakes, from 16 and on..incredible IQ for tiny packages with great prices.

- great kit lenses, Canon's RF kit lenses are almost laughable..the 16-50 NX was/is tiny with power zoom on the lens(!) and 3.5-5.6f. The 500-200 also is amazing and faster than the new Canon RF-S that announced with the new cameras..I will put here the 12-24 also, as it covers the 3 basic bronze triad (from 12 to 200mm). There are also other kit lenses like the more traditional 18-55mm 3.5-5.6f. I am not sure now, but back then they were the best kit lenses in the industry.

- great pancake native fisheye! I can't stress that much, brilliant oddball lens which I LOVE.

RF-S is not existant for now, and even the new RF 24-50mm is such a joke! 

But I have most of my needs covered already with the EF and RF I already own, so that is not a huge deal, and it is not like I can find everything in just one mount..

So far, the best was/is NX for me! Exactly what I wanted..

Another pub type discussion, sans the nice ales you get there and the smelly carpet!

The people that need IBIS, won't buy this camera. The people that are happy with APS-C won't..but people that need amazing full frame performance and IQ in the least price new, WILL! You will be surprised to learn how many there are!

This is a 1500$ release, whatever that's translated to your country.

Right now, R6mkII is 3.200€ in my E.U country, the R8 will be probably 1750-1.800€, the analogy will be similar in any country, a significant increase in final price. 3.200 - 1.800 = 1.400€ difference. That is huge..

Not everyone just buys whatever cameras are out there. This is madness..Canon offering such a quality with Clog3 to connect all the dots is unheard of..

I gave you some sales figures also, RP is super successful and popular, the R8 arguably is a much better and more modern camera. Success!

For me it will be a great addition to my collection of cameras. Yes, I wish I could afford the R6mkII, but my next purchase won't be the money maker, so I have limited funds to invest, meanwhile, I still will be able to use it on some projects additionally to my other cameras. Priceless..

There is always a way..I do not even have any social media, I participate only in forums and I feel I am not loosing much..

I have the PZM thingy for the 18-135mm EF-S, and is a lot of fun!

I am buying this. It has all I need, except the stupid battery, but is also a lot smaller and lighter than the R7, which will be my main workhorse of the near future (or now). 

I always had multiple bodies anyway, I still have 5 NX bodies (I only use the NX500 and 1 NX1 out of those) and a Pocket4K (amd the R7), what I am missing is a full frame body which doesn't have to be a premium model.

Canon RP is 9th in amazon.com after a bunch of A7x, ZV and a6xxx versions. R5 is sixth and G7 4th I believe..

In BCN Fuji and Pana didn't have a single model at the top 10..

"Canon EOS M50 Mark II(sold as EOS Kiss M2 in Japan) is at the top of the list in 2022 followed by the popular vlogger focused Sony ZV-E10 camera. 2021's best seller Sony Alpha a6400 dropped to 5th position this year. Olympus PEN E-PL10 is the only MFT camera in the list just like last year and Nikon managed to slide in only one camera, the Nikon Z50. Canon EOS RP  and the Sony Alpha A7 IV are the only two Full-frame cameras in the list."

RP is sixth in total sales, the Sony 7th..

Ofcourse, if you remember back then I was a huge NX sympathizer, and what happened to all that tech?!

Still have a full wardrobe of NX stuff I never use. Sales are an indication of company health and in our world money makes the world go round (not that I agree with that..).

All in all, it is a very good release in my opinion. It does have most of the things that matter for most people, except maybe IBIS, which is a given these days, but if we talk absolutely money, this is the best cheap FF camera. Do you remember the first silly RF ones?!

I have some of the cheap RF primes and lots of EF ones, do not underestimate the power of the EF stock around the planet!

It's fine, it is going to sell myriads of those. With C log you can have a pretty good set with whatever RF camera.. for us with EF glass and the adapters is a great option. I never use IBIS anyway. This is not the Canon of 2016, it is a much better version of a company! Not the best, but still they are delivering in some aspects.

Panasonic is desperate, OM is selling more cameras than them in Japan. Almost everyone is selling more cameras than them!

Is the 4K/50 uncropped?

- Small battery

- No Ibis

- Lesser view finder, what are the other differences vs the R6mkII?

47 minutes ago, Django said:

There are cost saving measures for sure and of course FF 4K60p will surely overheat under long shooting.

But at least is has FF4K60p which neither S5II or even A7IV offer. DPAF2 will also be way superior to S5II AF.

Another strong benefit is the fairly low RS (15.2ms in FF / 9.5ms in S35).

So for $1500 its imo a great offering. Competition is healthy for us consumers no matter what system you're on.

 

That is exactly the camera I need to pair with the R7! The R6mkII is still a dissappointing 3.200€..and I remind you I am not a camera man (I do other jobs in the industry), so I do not want to spend much for something that is not bringing that much money.

I want to see more overheating tests, but I believe I can get by, but the worst bummer is the small battery, because it is small, and because it is different..

I was considering the Panasonic with the lenses (it is 250€ less than the R6mkII body!), but now it makes perfect sense to go with RF!

Thanks Canon for bringing back the flame..

20 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

This was my main work camera for two years. I struggled with it. Coming from the C100, I thought that it would be a home run but I found myself missing the C100 a lot. The C100 was easier to handhold, had more reliable DPAF (even though it was center-weighted), and monitoring wasn't as confusing.

I was unimpressed with the H264 and only used CRL, recorded to a Solidpod that I mounted externally. Other C200 shooters have told me that they are okay with the noise levels, but to me the CRL footage was noisier than I was comfortable for client work at ISO 400 or above. After almost every shoot I would run NeatVideo on all of my footage, apply a LUT (unless they wanted CLOG2), and export ProRes files before handing it off to my clients. The resulting footage was really nice, but it took a lot to get there.

The day that I shipped the C200 out, I breathed a sigh of relief. I now have a C70, which addresses all of my problems with the C200.

Wow man! You are 100% right! We just didn't have to do all the transcoding as it was expected to be that way. Total disappointment that camera, and one of the reasons Sony dominated the market back then, and until now..

15 hours ago, mercer said:

I saw a videographer shooting a trade show with a C100 yesterday. I didn't get close enough to see if it was a Mark 1 or Mark 2 but I assume it was the latter. It's still a moneymaker.

Ofcourse it is..most ( if not all..) jobs are still delivered in 1080p..

Just use the G4 straight to the camera and you will be fine..

On 1/12/2023 at 3:46 AM, ade towell said:

Just put my pre order in.

To me the S5ii is the first mirrorless hybrid with no real weakness. Other than it doesn't have an upward path (which admittedly is enough of a turn off for some. But with the Sigma adaptor seeming to cope so well with EF lens AF, I can see it as a great mirrorless b camera to Canon cine cams)

I think Panny have created an absolute powerhouse at a bargain price. Nothing else comes close for the money

Is there a crop in 4K/50?

I am not sure, but if that's true, that is a main disadvantage in 2023, even for such a cheap camera. Is something to be expected I guess..

I am split for going Pana myself..It is very close to perfect, and I am sure there will be multi firmware updates..

@Djangovery confused myself, the Sigma adapter seems to work well also..the X option especially is very tempting..

The R6mkII is still 3.200€ here, the pricing is not competitive at all.