BenEricson

On 12/30/2021 at 2:07 AM, sanveer said:

Seems quite average. The image seemed way too flary, and the movement is dull. 

I disagree. Average for who? A experienced filmmaker? YouTuber?

Give 100 people the same camera setup and have them shoot locked off shots, I promise you it won't look this good. At least half of those 100 would be shooting ducks in a park like Philip Bloom.

On 11/27/2021 at 9:22 AM, PannySVHS said:

Didnt know, it hat aliasing. Same with FS700 with internal HD, which produced aliasing in the hightlights during a corporate gig. Maybe the problem which occured to him has to do with  his use of the Ninja V. I got a Blackmagic VA for the F3. So I still have to test that, some time soon hopefully! Did you guys recognize nasties with external recording?

I think I’ve seen aliasing on a brick wall shooting 60p to an external recorder. Real world use, not sure I’ve ever seen it.

15 hours ago, kye said:

The WideDR profile was unusable on the XC10.  Maybe there's some problem with implementing it on lesser cameras (technical, appetite, politics inside Canon, etc).

Not sure. Wide DR on the C300 or C70 is rad. It's basically the neutral profile on a DSLR. It looks good enough to hand off to the client but also saves some data on the top and the bottom of the image. There's no crazy digital sharpness or noise reduction applied. 

That being said, the DGO sensor is only promised to perform better at native ISO. This is documented on the Canon site.

5 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

This wasn't actually noise. In the scene I was using haze and thought it was coming from the window blinds. But it was actually just a pattern from the sensor or maybe some kind of weird reflection?? 

I see what you're saying. I think the C70 would handle this better. The problem is that there's not any more DR in the highlights, so if you're trying to avoid clipping the window, you'll still be stuck with a noisy room unless you add more light. With the Alexa, you might be able to open up another stop or two, not only that the highlights would be so much softer even if they clipped. 

8 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I'm also looking into the C70. I don't need it but no-fuss image, internal NDs and false colors/waveforms are attractive over say the R6 I've been using and the just released R3.

I think any of those cameras can create beautiful images. The C70 or C300 will just be less fuss and you'll probably have more fun operating the camera. 

I feel like I didn't mention this earlier... The battery life on the C70 is absolutely crazy. You can run that camera for around 5/6 hours of continuous recording with just one battery. I think the power draw is one half of the C300 Mkii and one quarter the draw of the C500 Mkii. These are little things that people don't really talk about but make a huge difference.

14 hours ago, kye said:

Great looking images!

Have you tried playing with sharpening on the C70 footage?  I feel like sharpening is a whole skill unto itself, but because all the cameras that YouTubers use are over sharpened, no-one talks about it in those "how-to make your coffee look cinematic" ads tutorials.

I'd suggest working out all the ways your NLE can sharpen (of which there are many) and then pull a few test shots into a timeline and apply every type of sharpening at, say, 10 different strengths, making sure to go higher than what you think looks reasonable.  Then export it to whatever resolution / codec you deliver in and then sit back and from a sensible viewing distance compare it to whatever you think is natural.  

Thanks!

I definitely have. The sharpest images I could get were with the C70 is 4K in a 4K timeline with around 15 percent sharpness. There's just a level of sharpness that a camera like the Komodo can reach that any of the C series cameras in my experience do not reach. 

I'm going to agree with what you've said in the past though... The color grading and handling of the images in post will really determine the final quality. I would say that well shot C70 or C300 footage will be much better than 95 percent of the Komodo tests online. 

That being said, the same DP who did well with the C70 will likely do even better with a Komodo. 

That's just my personal observations. I own the C70. It was a great camera this year. I'm buying the Komodo in December and i'll be using those as my A and B cams for freelance jobs.

5 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I am sure if you put them back to back in a very high dynamic range situation you'd see a difference.

My biggest issue on the C300 MK2 is the weird banding artifact you get in some high contrast situations. I was shocked to see this was a normal problem on the camera.

If you discount low light performance maybe. The C500 mk2 has a lot going for it honestly, its just an easy camera. I do love the komodo though.

This is true. The noise issue in extreme situations on the C300 Mkii can be really bad. You can avoid by shooting at ISO 500 and avoid C-LOG 2 in those types of situations.

You're right, the C500 Mkii is an incredible work horse camera. It's disappointing that there is no light weight 6k codec.

My point was that the C300 Mk2 and the C70 are not worlds apart. In 95 percent of situations, they will look nearly identical. 

I was also disappointed that they removed a lot of the picture profiles in the C70. A lot of the baked in profiles that I had used in the past, (rarely,) have been removed. There is no Cinema EOS Original, no BT.709 in Clog2, they also removed the 12 bit 444 2k codec.

Interesting enough, when I compared both cameras in the Wide DR codec, there was more noise on the C70 than the C300Mkii in ISOs over 1600. I kind of expected the opposite. 

https://vimeo.com/543915327/c8c6ad9ce9

I guess my main point was that the Komodo clearly has a significant leap in quality (to my eyes.) The C500ii, C70, and C300iii all kind of look similar.

4 hours ago, Django said:

Interesting, I'm actually hesitating in between a C70 & a used C300 mk2. 

They're about the same price. 

Could you expand on why you find the C300 much better ergonomically? I always thought that tall form factor with the clamshell display & XLRS on top was poorly regarded. 

The more compact DSLR form of the C70 seems more versatile while still maintaining the side buttons etc?

The RF mount with the speed booster is also a big advantage. How do you find the FF IQ with it? I heard the speed booster holds up much better than Metabones on EF glass IQ wise.

The only drawback I can think of on the C70 is the SD cards. I hate SDs. They always crap out.

Oh and the C300 mk2 has that 12-bit 444 2K option which has got to give the best colours after RAW.

The R3 looks awesome but has all the caveats of hybrids.

Btw, can you magnify while recording on C70?

2 hours ago, Django said:

Also I just realised C70 has anamorphic support & de squeeze (1.3x & 2x) meaning its compatible with the affordable SIRUI 1.33x lenses now available in RF mount. I think that seals the deal for me on the C70!

The main reason the C300ii is better ergonomically is the viewfinder, the natural weight of the camera, the full sized XLR ports, the connections being on the back rather than the side, the relocatable grip, the movable monitor. The C70 needs a cage and monitor to even get close. The lack of an EVF in the C70 really sucks tbh. Again, this all depends on what you're doing. If you're shooting with a gimbal, monopod, or locked off, the C70 is better. If you're shooting handheld run and gun with something like the 24-105, then the C300ii is likely better.

The speed booster is awesome. There is vignetting when shooting wide open on some lenses. (this is related to the speed booster, not the lenses.)

Yes, you can magnify during recording. 

Speaking of anamorphic. I did rent an Atlas 32mm over the summer. The aspect was pretty crazy because the lenses are 2x, but they did kind of remove the typical Canon look. Still kind of soft compared to the Komodo imo.

13 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I would hope a $30K-$60K camera would have a better image.

Komodo. Requires work arounds but the image is better than the 15k C500ii. Different cameras tho.

On 11/21/2021 at 7:01 PM, Video Hummus said:

If canon released an improved C70 styled FF DGO camera they would do very well for themselves. Especially if it is priced somewhat competitively and not $10,000.

Pretty sure they’re doing fine! They also make a speed booster which makes the C70 exactly that.

I own the C70. The “DGO” sensor is kind of over hyped. My image is very very close to the 6 year old C300 Mk2. Of course the C300 is a much better camera ergonomically.

The best features are the improved AF, 160mbps 4K, false color, 4k 60p, smaller size. Everything else is very very similar.

IMO all of the Canon images look really similar, for better or for worse. Id be surprised if anyone can truly tell the difference between this and the C70. The bright bright highlights (the sun,) always give it away. Red or Arri does better.

On 11/8/2021 at 2:01 AM, Django said:

C300 mk2 does 4K 422 10-bit and 2K 12-bit 444. It totally crushes the 1DX2 IQ.

Have you used both? The 1DXii always seemed much sharper to me, but the C300ii has a smoother image. (Soft tho, even the 4K is soft.) 

Those 4K 1DXii files are beautiful. The files are huge, but the resolution crushes the C300 in 60p. 

That being said, the C300 Mk2 is one of my favorite cameras ever. So easy to use and always looks great.

7 hours ago, kye said:

Yes, the grading experience is fundamentally different isn't it!

It's an odd thing to describe, especially to someone who might have gotten an S1 or equivalent and where that footage is much nicer to grade than other things they've been using.  I guess it's pretty hard to describe how a $1K 1080p camera from a decade ago can be one (or two) steps above the latest multi-thousand dollar FF 6K beasts, but it is.

I find that if you don't care about the dates on the files on the card, you can have manual lenses and a vND and you just set the camera to the desired frame rate, codec, and shutter speed, and then you don't have to navigate the menus ever - just change the vND for exposure, and aperture and focus and hit record/stop at the right times.

It's also worth testing if you prefer focus peaking from the camera or your monitor.  You can even use the menu overlays from the camera and the peaking on your monitor, but it will highlight all the overlays as well as your image, but you can get used to that pretty easily.

Exactly. It’s the closest feeling to grading flat color negative film. It’s like paint. 
 

I agree with avoiding the menus. I use the pocket with manual lenses, hard stop NDs and a light meter. Throw a 4 stop on there and rate it at ASA50. Just use the LCD for framing and ignore it for judging exposure.

On 10/12/2021 at 8:02 AM, Parker said:

I'm as obsessed with the Alexa look as just about anyone. I had a major shoot on Friday, I was toying with renting the Amira, as it is very affordable in my area. I don't have a lot of experience actually using it though, so ultimately, despite having plenty of budget available to rent a big boy camera, I decided to just shoot it on my tried-and-true S1. I didn't even use pro res raw, just regular 5.9k internal hevc. I monitor using the GHAlex LUT on my ninja v, so I can nail the look "in-camera" before I grade. I think it's pretty dang close. This screengrab has zero adjustments or color alterations besides just dropping on the lut. 

If I can get 95% of the way there, and have higher resolution to boot, at the cost of maybe a stop or so of extreme highlight retention in certain situations, I think it really starts to be hard to justify, beyond just impressing clients and feeling super cool and hollywood. 

Looks nice, but this shot looks great on any nearly any camera system. You really start to notice the difference when the lighting is more dynamic. There are limits.
 

I own the C70 and the details in the dark side of the face, light falling off, color gradients, etc, just don’t cut it. Yes, in most settings it looks really nice. Better for the high key look.

On 10/19/2019 at 7:34 PM, Shell64 said:

I love slider shots. And it feels like today there is an obsession with gimbals. Honestly the shots most people do with gimbals looks boring now a days, and even when trying to keep the gimbal steady, the camera obviously looks like it’s floating.  I like the look of a slider. It looks like a gimbal moving, but without the “floating in the air thing.”  They aren’t used too much, and one can make beautiful camera movements with one. There is something about the camera being locked down and moving compared to a gimbal where the camera is “floating and moving.”

You can also say the same for locked off shots, especially with long lenses.

4 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

also, the original BMPCC had what, basically a 1” inch sensor and shot ProRes. So a 1/2” sensor on a phone shooting ProRes isn’t hilarious to me, especially when it’s got decent portrait mode that potentially makes the footage look like it was shot on a much bigger camera.

I hear ya. I love the original bmpcc. That being said, a sensor that is double the size and 1080p instead of 4K is not the same. Also, the pocket looks best with vintage glass or maybe a giant 18-35 with a speed booster. 

Like other have said above, they need less processing, not more. We don’t need fake depth of field, we need the option to remove noise reduction, skin processing, and HDR features. That being said, I obviously haven’t used the camera. I’m sure it’ll be fun. Just something I’ve noticed over the years. It’ll always still look like a phone, it just gets slightly better.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I see it becoming an established style, especially on social media. And real films will have to mimic it to get the authentic feel of that when needed by the script.

Sure will be interesting to play with and see how it develops but for now it is 99% a TikTok thing to raise the production values of short social media measured in seconds.

I am impressed that Apple managed to put ProRes codec into a phone as well.

What is stopping the camera companies now exactly with their hardware and lack of internal ProRes. Just outdated chips or what?

I’m very surprised they figured out how to regulate all of the heat being generated with 4K / ProRes. The large file sizes will also kind of force people to buy the 1TB versions.

I’m hyped to try it, but I can’t stand portrait mode. It’s really nice in theory, but always looks funky and fake. 

I personally love phone footage because it feels candid and fun, fake depth of field may just feel processed and funky. Also, capturing huge ProRes with a tiny tiny sensor is hilarious.
 

On 8/6/2021 at 3:30 AM, UncleBobsPhotography said:

Sorry if this is a basic question, but I'm fairly new to log grading and couldn't seem to find a good answer.

I'm colourgrading some clog3 by using the bt709 CanonLog3 to bt709 Wide DR 33 LUT provided by Canon.

To keep the colour science correct, the LUT should be applied before any expose adjustments/contrast adjustments since these adjustments are made for adjusting linear values and not logarithmic values. However, applying the LUT clips my highlights, and I am not able to recover them afterwards. The problem disappear if I do the expose compensation first, but even though the results looks fine in this instance, this is not the technically correct way of doing it and might give funky results in different situations. 

What is the best way to solve this? Is there some setting to ask Premiere to use a wider value range during calculations? Or is the solution as usual to switch to Davinci Resolve?

You can put a “fast color correct” before the layer with LUT and drop the input highlight or shadows. This effectively does what you’re describing.

6 hours ago, EphraimP said:

If external recording is completely a no-go in S&F, that would be a huge bummer.

I believe it’s 2K only? But you’d get ProRes 422 HQ, rather than the lower bit rate internal. 

I have experienced buffer errors with the C70 and 120FPS. I’ve tried both the most expensive ProGrade and Sandisk cards... I’m not sure if the issue is heat, or the amount of files on the card. (I’ve experienced this when shooting 24fps and then moving to 120fps in the same structure.) I’ve had issues with both 1080 and 4k which is bizarre. 

Every other mode is perfect. That alone is a bit of a selling point for the C300 Mkiii. The media issue is problematic.

Rented this for the weekend. I am really enjoying this lens. I'll post some frames soon!

5 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Ah - now that you mention it, both the hire lenses I was using had IS engaged!  I'd forgotten that because I generally own manual, non-stabilised glass, so I had mis-remembered the setup.  Apologies!

I'm weary of the internal IS, but it can work as well. It's good at removing minor shake if you're trying to get a locked off looking shot. I bet it would work great with a 18-35 Sigma.

This dude used the internal IS for an entire mini doc. Pretty surprising that someone would have that much confidence in it. His quote below is pretty solid.

http://www.danmccomb.com/covid-nurse-short-doc-tests-c500mkii-on-front-lines-of-the-pandemic/

"The C500mkii is the first professional digital cinema camera that Canon has made that features IS built right into the camera body. In testing, I found it works very well when you are trying to keep the camera still, but it’s less effective when you’re intentionally moving the camera. It does a great job smoothing out footage you want to keep steady, but a poor job of smoothing out footage you want to keep in motion."

On 5/15/2021 at 6:37 AM, Mmmbeats said:

Shadow integrity is phenomenal on the camera.  Would make using the (otherwise excellent) previous gen cameras like the C300 mkii, and the C200, a bit of a pain now.

Agree about the official Canon LUTs - they are a disaster.  Not quite sure how they've allowed that to happen.  I actually genuinely believe some of my early concerns, re: highlight rendition, etc. may have been down to how people have been applying the official LUT! 😲  

Would recommend trying out CLOG2 over CLOG3, as the latter is really designed to protect shadow in a way that isn't really necessary with DGO.

CLOG3 / BT.709 can be nice though. You don't need a LUT and it is easily gradable by just adding contrast.  You don't actually gain any information in the highlights, just way way down in the shadows.

9 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

The weight is a good thing in my view.  I had to do some off-the-cuff hand-held shots with no rig.  No micro-judder!  None!  I decided to build some more handheld into my project.  Built like a mirrorless, but really handles like a camcorder.

I agree that weight is nice, but this camera does not have enough. I added a cage and monitor with a battery and it feels a bit better. I still think IS lenses are clutch. 

My C70 with the cage (no monitor) is only 10 ounces less than a stripped down C300 Mkii. Kind of interesting. The C70 is still a better gimbal camera and easier to pack around, but it's not exactly a light weight DSLR.

The big bummer is the lack of EVF. You lose that point of contact. It was on purpose so people would be forced to buy a C300iii for a true documentary camera.

On 5/4/2021 at 3:49 PM, kye said:

I bought a P2K (OG BMPCC) purely because it had a screen.  The M2K (BMMCC) is tiny, and some lenses are tiny, but once you add a monitor it instantly becomes the size of a 1DC or larger.

Same. I own both with the RAW Lite filters and barely use the bmmcc. I keep telling myself I will use it for weird POV angles and pick up shots but haven't yet. I'm trying to keep the 60p to a minimum so it has been sitting.

18 minutes ago, kye said:

It's been about a decade since the GoPro Hero 3 camera was released.

Over that time, GoPro have released cameras that are roughly the same size, weight, battery life, price, and target market, but of course the specs got better, so they're a good benchmark to set a benchmark for the pace of technological progress.

Here's a comparison of the data rates over that time...  The Hero 3 Black (2012) could do 4K15 (124MP/s) and the Hero 6 Black (2017) could do 4K60 (500MP/s), a 4X increase over 5 years, or a 32% increase per year.  Therefore, we can either expect a 32% reduction in size and weight per year to keep the same performance, or we get that in a performance bump each year.

Taking the BMMCC, released in 2015, and extrapolating it to today would mean we could expect a camera with 7X the throughput, which if we round it up to an 8X increase would be full uncompressed RAW at 4K120, 2.7K240, or 1080p480...  at the same size, weight, and battery life.

I don't really think I need a camera that can do 4K120 or 2.7K240, but one that could do 2.7K60 and 1080p120 and was 66% of its current height and width and depth and 25% the weight, well, that would be something to have!! 

Not only would that be spectacular for drone users, but also great for those who are using these as crash cams, dash cams, and other tight-installation applications.

I would LOVE the bmmcc if it could steam wireless to my phone or if it had even a tiny reference screen. I often throw the OG pocket up on a tripod. Takes two seconds and looks good without much hassle.

I wonder if they'll ever make a 4K version. The Go Pro itself doesn't even sell very well because the iPhone looks similar and often better because of the color processing and resolution on the new phones.

4 hours ago, kye said:

Are there any other cinema cameras you could fly on a drone this size?

 

Haha this is wild.

Really clean work with the BMMCC. The P4K with nice lenses in that environment is also really nice. I just followed you on Vimeo. I've seen the "Calvas y Bellas_Trailer b" trailer when searching for BMMCC footage on Vimeo. 

I'm shooting a piece right now, mixing 16mm and the bmpcc. They match really well and I can use the same set of Kern lenses on both cameras. 

Have you ever shot 16mm? You can get a K3 for really cheap. Bolex prices kind of Sky Rocket unfortunately.

10 hours ago, danieleciraolo said:

I have the r5 and I work with a macpro 2009 with 12 cores and a macbook pro 15 8 cores, surely I have no real time but with final cut I do the proxies for the mounting the color I do it with davinci when the job is finished and I have no problems ( 8k raw, ipb and 4k 120 fps)

But does it look better than 1080p from an Alexa? 

8 hours ago, independent said:

According to cineD, Alexa has a 1-stop increase in dynamic range over the c500ii or c300iii. 

What is everybody crying about? First, what are you doing, shooting the sun all day? 

Second, your audience almost certainly won’t see major differences between these cameras in properly shot scenes. If you see horrible clipping, that’s an exposure error. Or a poor creative decision. Somebody is getting fired.

Some of you think if you only had an Alexa, everything you shoot would look like roger deakins’ work. Sorry, a major reason why Alexa footage looks so good is that professionals know how to light and expose - for any camera. 

This is why we use dimmers on practicals, sheers on windows, and use lighting to control levels and contrast.

The differences among arri, red, and the best Sony and canon cameras are quite small on set. Yes, currently Arri’s highlight roll off is a bit nicer and has a bit more reach in the highlights, but nothing really changes the way we shoot with any of those cameras.

The truth is most of the current top cameras look very similar - properly exposed. Sure, you can stress test some cameras to show weaknesses - arri and red included, which would struggle in extreme low light. This is why these aren’t common for run-and-gun documentaries. 

If Canon produces new technologies (very possible) that ends up capturing more dynamic range than the Arri, I wouldn’t be surprised. Also, I wouldn’t consider the Arri trash for having a stop less of dynamic range. 
 

 

Damn, do you own stock in Canon and Sony? 😂 The only thing you left out is that they shot the season finale of house on the 5D.

38 minutes ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Even the Alexa is this way, if not quite as bad. I think it's just a trade-off with digital.

You're right, but Alexa is WAY better than Canon. Once to you notice it, it's kind of a bummer.