Tone1k

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

If you mean visually checking as in viewing it on the device itself rather than a data integrity check against the source media then no.

The scope of it is basically as a (much) cheaper alternative to something like the WD Wireless Pro without the fixed capacity and with a fast enough interface to copy the CFast cards as the WD device only supports USB2 for non SD card sources.

It can support wireless access as a drive (I have a use for it in this way with non-RAW video files to use it with LumaFusion editor on the iPad n the field) so it could be used as a source for your RAW viewer of choice on a laptop but if you've got a laptop with you to do that then you don't need this anyway and might as well use the laptop.

 

 

Yeah, call me OCD or old fashioned but I still like visually spot checking my offloads before formatting a card for re use. 

Not sure how possible it would be to implement but if the device could produce an offload report pdf with visual  clip thumbnail strips like Shotput pro does then this could maybe be viewed on a connected ipad? 

24 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Is anyone interested in a small device to do in field backups of CFast cards to SSDs so you can have a couple of cheap 64gig cards (such as the Integral branded £46 ones) and cycle between them?

So you'd shoot on one, pop it into the device which will automatically back it up while you shoot on the other one and then repeat and then just pull the SSD out to start editing with when you get back to base.

Would the 'device' have any way of checking the footage once transferred to the SSD?

If not, it's a no from me. 

1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

I have seen images from GH5s and Terra 4K so I know what to expect as far as dynamic range.  I don't think Blackmagic should have any problems with color science either, so in that regard I have realistic expectations as to what the footage will look like.  I think the Blackmagic camera will have obvious limitations but not much different than people who come from cameras without autofocus and IBIS like 5D Mark III, etc.

JB seemed to allude to the fact that it's not the same sensor as Gh5.....? 

9 hours ago, jonpais said:

So you're saying it was impossible to have a longer life battery like the Panasonic? (asking for clarification)

John, the Canon LP6 and Panasonic Gh5 batteries are the same capacity. 

17 hours ago, jhnkng said:

I was mostly using the 16 1.4 and the 35 1.4. It's actually pretty accurate, the issue is that it isn't smooth. DPAF looks like a professional focus puller is on the job, the X-T2 looks like me pulling focus while operating and directing...

I don't use my X-T2 professionally, just for taking videos of the kids but have found the face tracking and other autofocus modes pretty good. The Fuji 1.4 lenses are notoriously slow and clunky with AF though. The 16-55 and even 18-55 do pretty well as do the f2 primes.

What lens were you using on the X-t2 and what AF mode were you using? 

Were you trying to track a face? 

Cool story Bro. 

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

Lol....the reason they don't "over charge" is because really low price is the only reason people would buy these systems. 

Absolute nonesense. 

Davinci resolve was (and still is) the industry standard for colouring and do you know how much it cost before Blackmagic got their hands on it, improved it and brought the price down to the few hundred dollars it is today? 

Blackmagic could charge much more for most of their products and users would still buy them but they choose not to. 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

When Canon, Nikon have their FF Mirrorless cameras out I think Fuji is going to be in big trouble. You know Canon, Nikon will probably both make a APSC sized one also. I see negative Fuji growth, not positive down the road.

Nah, Fuji has the GFX.... You know it's APC for compactness or medium format for everything else these days ? 

3 minutes ago, User said:

- Only thing that is stopping me from jumping on a Fuji is that all their lenses are fly by wire. And that I'm already heavily invested in solid Canon EF glass.

Fiji's Fly by wire lenses don't feel like fly by wire at all. They have definite hard stops and I use the DOF scale to focus manually quite often with great results. 

I'm not sure how much of this is a full frame thing though. Does Fuji now also need to go Full Frame? They seem to be going quite well in the Mirrorless market. 

I see plenty of people using Mirrorless but the minority are using Full Frame cameras.

Sure, in our circles of users that shoot video, the A7 series is hugely popular and a small number of pros photographers are making the switch  but does this make up most of the sales? I genuinely don't know but the article you posted didn't list Sony Full frame as the reason did it?  It actually stated that users wanted something better than their phone but without the bulk of a DSLR.

Either way, In terms of Mirrorless, I think Fuji are the ones who have really nailed the whole system. Fantastic colour science, compact bodies that are actually a joy to use and small affordable lenses that give up nothing in image quality to the best from Canon or Nikon and are built like the best from Leica.

In the age of people wanting to post high quality images instantly, Fujis SOOC Jpegs are among the finest.

EOSHD can be quite a toxic forum. Lots of people come out swinging to posts that don't require it. I gotta say though, that the whole tone of the forum seems to be set from the top. 

2 hours ago, MdB said:

 

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Really? Have a look at the GH5. But why does it need to have a fully articulating screen? The whole point of discussion was ADDING a screen. Ad yes the Pocket will have those features, so a decent display will inherit them as well. Besides, I am guessing you haven't looked at what is available in this space these days. 

 

 

 

By full articulating, i mean you can place it where you want. While bigger, It's more flexible setup. The GH5 screen is tiny, not my idea of a good screen ...

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*sigh* 

I asked HOW WELL does it work in that setup, which despite being a supposed owner and user, you couldn't answer. You keep diverting, saying how there is this work around or that.

 

It works perfectly fine. Not sure how you've set up the FS700 on a Ronin before but I haven't had any issues using a range of Sony FE or Cine lenses. I didn't divert, I simply explained that you don't need Follow Focus motors or a Camera van like you seemed to think to make it all work. On the contrary, I merely was trying to get across that you may have to actually use a FF on the Pocket4k when on a gimbal rather than the FS700.

 

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Wanna talk about the pocket? I have no idea what the AF is like. The AF on the FS700 is no way in the same league as many other cameras with reliable AF, like the Canon's you dismiss

I can't see the pocket having usable AF but I'd like to be pleasantly surprised. I didn't dismiss the older Canons,  just said that for me, they were a non starter. I did say they created lovely images if you'll remember.

It will be nice to see the handheld gimbals support more cameras but for now, the built in FF is rather limited.

 

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But cameras like the C500 are much more of a 'proper cinema camera' but you decided to dismiss that based on 'spec'. So is it spec-dollar or how 'proper cinema camera' it is? The FS700 is in the handicam NEX group. That is the type of camera it is. It does a LOT for the money... But it is no better made than a GH5 or Pocket Cinema Camera... But it is bigger, hallow and plastic (the GH5 is magnesium alloy). 

Sigh indeed! I never dismissed the C500 on spec, I dismissed the C300. If I need a camera that shoots over 25 or 30p for my work (as I said I did) then how can I consider a camera that doesn't do what I need no matter how nice the colours? I did say that if you then consider the C500, you then still need to rig it up like the FS700 so it loses it's compact appeal AND it's a lot more expensive. Sure the C500 is a lovely camera but to match the FS700 you still need to add the Odyssey.

Its also not just about cost nor is it just about how much of a proper cine camera it is. Why do you have to pick one?

 The NEX moniker says nothing about the FS700 as it is a completely different camera with the Odyssey to when it was released. The proof is in the pudding, my FS700 has been used on countless jobs and everything on it still works. NEX written on it or not, it has held up extremely well. 

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They sure are. Seemingly though the FS700 is better than all of them... just 'coz. 

Sorry, where did I say the FS700 was a better camera...just coz? Have I not listed plenty of reasons why I think the FS700 is still a great camera in 2018....which is what the post is about? The post was not about 'which is the best camera in 2018 so not sure how you come to the conclution that I think the FS700 is better than everything else?

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Sure if you are going to use a bodgy shoulder rig, a cinesaddle and a tripod you aren't going to need a truck. But every bit of gear needs to be considerable bigger, heavier and more expensive for a bigger camera. This is a simple fact. If you have a lot of grip, that does start to get huge and expensive. Up to the user, but these are issues that need to be solved by someone. Don't spread false information that it has no impact, either you are clueless or you are really just trying hard to beat the drum of the FS700. 

 

 

 

Um, I have real world experience with the FS700, how am I spreading false information? 

The only reason I'm still commenting on this thread is to dispel the incorrect information given by others.

"Bodgy shoulder rig" not required. FS700 has a relocatable hand grip with rec start/stop. you can set up the FS700 in a very similar way to the FS7. On smaller jobs with the FS7, despite it having an EVF, I still need to provide the director with an offside monitor most of the time so still need a 5 or 7" monitor hanging off it anyway. FS700 not too dissimilar. Now the FS7 is definitely more ergonomic, but FS700 can be built in a similar fashion without the deed for "bodgy shoulder rigs". False information on your part about needing something 'bodgey'

 "FS700 footage always requires that you spend all you time fixing it in post". Not true, shoot Log and grade in post or shoot REC709 and happily hand the client the footage. 

"Requires a dedicated camera van" Also not true. 

"Is only usable on a tripod" you didnt say this but again, untrue.

Sure, it's bigger than a Pocket4K...that is obviously true. 

"has limited connectivity" Not true, as I said the Odyssey provides you with extra SDI outputs, audio outputs, LTC Timecode input and can all be powered by one power source if needed.

Ultimately, this is not a discussion that needs a winner as I have stated that different tools suit different people. I never said that the FS700 was better than anything else. For me, the FS700 is still great, that was the question. It's not the best camera out there like you seem to think I believe. I'm still looking forward to getting a Pocket4k in September :fingerscrossed:

 

Sorry about the wonky formatting. Can't seem to rectify it now that it's been posted.

Saying the FS700 is no good for a solo shooter is also saying the FS7, F5, F55, Ursa Mini Pro or any other camera that doesn't fit on a handheld gimbal.. Is no good either.

Your comments about a decent camera will already have decent aids in place,  show me a dslr sized camera that has a great fully articulating screen, false colour, waveform, accurate peaking, full LUT support etc 

In terms of needing Follow focus motors and all that other parafenalia you mention... That's just not the case. In fact, you can put a small Sony E-mount lens on the FS700, mount it to a ronin or similar and have perfectly usable autofocus (with face tracking!) if thats what your into. Try doing that with the Pocket! 

I said 'if you prefer the feel of a proper cine camera'... The FS700 odyssey combo feels more like a cine camera compared to small handheld set ups in its build, pro level features (with the odyssey) etc. 'if you prefer it' meaning closer to. 

All cameras are good options, I know the FS700 can make me money, not sure about the Pocket yet. I'll see when I receive it.

It really depends what you need and where your priorities are as to which you choose. But please don't spread false information by saying things like 'you'll need a whole grip truck or camera van to use it'. 

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

True, I would totally agree with your statement. But it is really Only good siting on a Tripod rigged the way it needs to be. I can't picture it on a Gimbal I could ever afford. So that is pretty damn limiting in this day and age compared to what the P4K should be able to do, even if the AF is crap. So in essence you are going back in time, I am not to sure that is a good idea for Me on my limited income.

But if you are into Slo Mo, I am not very often, well I can't argue against the FS700. It is the best at it that we could ever afford. And it does it damn well to boot.

 

FS700 Only usable on a tripod? Nonsense! I use mine on the shoulder, on a cinesaddle, handheld in front of my chest, and on a ronin. On the ronin, you just mount the camera as per normal and the recorder becomes the monitor you would normally use anyway mounted on the cross bar.

While it's true you probably can't use a single handed gimbal, for me, that's a non issue. 

If you pfer a DSLR form factor, get the Pocket4k but if you prefer the feel of a proper cine camera, the FS700 w/odyssey is a fantastic choice. 

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Clearly this topic is too edgy for some people.

Personally I find it interesting.

The culture and politics around it are interesting.

I have also learnt that compared to the UK and Europe, the US in 2018 is a very politically correct and conservative society with easy to offend sensibilities. Feels like Victorian England out there! What's up with you guys? Lighten up!

Andrew,

I'm not American, have lived both in the UK and Australia and from a multicultural background but this is not about people not having a sense of humour. 

Let's say a person you didn't know all that well kept joking about 'fucking young boys', while the jokes aren't all that funny he concluded with 'just joking yeah!'. A few years later it's found that those jokes were based on something more real. Do you look back and think 'well the writing was on the wall'. Could something have been done to prevent the outcome? Are Gunns jokes still jokes if we find out that he himself is a paedophile in a few years time? 

If Gunn's jokes were about a third party like Machael Jackson or the Catholic church, it becomes a different kettle of fish as it's not a direct reflection of a person's character.

Joking about committing disgraceful acts yourself though, should be used to judge character. At what point do we start showing concern if everything is 'just a joke'? 

Is joking about raping women ok in your eyes? Should women just 'lighten up' and accept jokes about rape? 

By making this acceptable 'banter', you you dilute the issue socially and over time, make this behaviour the norm making it hard to decider when concern should be raised. 

There are plenty of comedians who are able to be funny without relying on poor taste punch lines like Gunn's. His reliance is on shock value to get a reaction and it's pretty pathetic to be honest.

1 hour ago, dhessel said:

 Who gets to decide? Notice how you said "talk like that" not "jokes like that", see you don't see them as jokes you see them as statements because you have just been offended and now someone needs to pay.

Just because you think something is not funny, that doens't mean the person was not joking.

I completely understand that they were jokes. 'Talk like that' is a figure of speech. 

I don't agree that the tweets should have seen him fired, I'm just against making 'talk like that', joking or not, the norm.

Do we dismiss the 'jokes' as being 'just jokes' because we know Gunn was trying to be funny? What if they came from someone you didn't know, they would be easy to take out of context and at what point do you start to worry if there should be cause for concern. 

I wonder if the 'jokes' would be seen as 'just jokew' if a catholic priest had made them. 

The topic brought up in these 'jokes' is one to be taken seriously, dumbing it down and normalising it then blurs the line for when there should and shouldn't be concern for a person's character. 

What system do you cut on? 

That Synology Nas is a good unit. Fill it with 8 drives in a raid 10 config and it will be plenty fast as long as you install a 10gbe card in it and use a 10gbe to thunderbolt adaptor. Using the 1gbe connections will not give you the speed you need. Do you need to share the data on it with other users? 

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think what this topic is telling me, is that the house of forum is due a spring clean. Damphousse was nearly banned in 2014 for his complete disregard for any form of respect for mods including myself as the site owner, and I let him stay... 4 years later, I think I'm out of any more tolerance. Maybe it is time to invite some new blood to post on the forum and find out who is the driftwood and isn't contributing.

Did you actaully ban Damphousse from this forum based on this discussion? 

Gunns tweets were completely out of line. Sorry, but 'fucking little boys' is not comedy and talk like that should not be normalised. The number of Paedophilia 'jokes' he makes is also quite alarming.

2 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

John Brawley said that and it's true. 90% of American TV shows seem to be shot on the Alexa in 1080p Prores 4:4:4.  Very few people do RAW or 4K, and if they do 4K it's usually Sony cameras shooting XAVC.  Only times you see raw are very high-end TV shows and RED shows for Netflix.  With now the Alexa LF, I'm sure a lot of shows will switch back to Arri.

It's not because of storage either because a lot of productions are fine with shooting even prores XQ, it's the extra costs of shooting RAW which people don't like.

I work in VFX where you occasionally will have shots where you push the Prores files harder than you ever would in grading and I generally see no issues.

Even when I do greenscreen stuff, the Alexa does 4:2:2 HQ during slow motion shots, and even then, those files are pretty robust too.

Even high end TVC's don't shoot RAW a lot of the time. Mainly ProRes4444 and the VFX bunch are more than happy with it. This is why I just dont get why people are wanting to record uncompressed RAW on Blackmagic Cameras. Don't get me wrong, RAW is great but 3 or 4:1 compressed RAW is plenty for everything.

1 hour ago, MdB said:

 

Well I'm talking in AUD as that is my market. Pocket is $1585. FS700 is ~$2.2k+ plus Atomos which is $1k+ or Odessey which is $2k+. Really want to talk about NDs? Personally I'd just use them in-adapter for the most part. 

As for plenty of reasons to prefer the larger form factor - Sure! Except the FS700's form factor is universally panned for being absolutely rubbish. So that is a big minus - It's cheap, it's uncomfortable so none of the pluses of a larger body and then has the minuses that means it needs bigger grip gear for everything, every time you buy / hire things like gimbals etc you need the MUCH bigger and more expensive versions. 

The FS700 is perfect in that case. Or an FS5 etc. 

Certainly less of an issue with the C500. 

I actually don't find the FS700 uncomfortable to use. Most people trashing the ergonomics were using it in its basic form, with the built in EVF. Yes, you can get a 'cheap and light monitor for Pocket4k but it will be no match to Odyssey. If you want a screen as good with professional aids, you need something better than the cheap light hdmi monitors out there. 

In terms of rigging, same requirements as C500 which you were recommending no?

The FS5's 4k is 8bit so to get it to come anywhere near the FS700 w/odyssey you also need to get an Odyssey for the FS5. The FS5's raw output is also noisier than the FS700s and its double the price (Second hand). FS700 is a better match for FS7, F5 and F55 as a B Cam.

2 hours ago, Damphousse said:

Chinese phone is a no, no.

iPhone is Chinese. 

I have the original One Plus One (cheap Chinese) and while I've moved on to a Samsung, the one plus is still going strong and I use it when I travel OS. 

19 hours ago, MdB said:

 

I have a very early preorder on the Pocket 4k but what I still like about the FS700 w/ odyssey is the internal ND's, two proper XLR inputs, a great quality monitor, S35mm sensor, 4k 50p and even 4K 100p in burst (I'm in a PAL country). 

Yes, its a bigger/more cumbersome  rig than the pocket4k, but then sometimes that's a benefit. I also shoot a fair bit on Red and that's no less cumbersome than the FS700 w/odyssey. I'm not going to pretend the FS700 is ergonomic but it depends what your use to I suppose. Also, I can't really see myself using the Pocket 4k in its basic form all that often anyway. I would need another monitor mounted to it as the non tilting built in one is unusable when using a cinesaddle or any position you can't see the screen straight on. I would also probably want a mattebox for ND's (not a fan of VariNds). Battery life May also be an issue on longer shoots and then I'd brobably want some sort of small cage with top handle for handling. Are these issues for everyone? Of course not, but for my use, the FS700 may still be the better camera of the two but I'll evaluate that when I have the Pocket 4k in hand. 

Some of the work I do uses the Sony F5 and f55 as an A Cam so the FS700 cuts in perfectly with them. 

While the c300 does shoot lovely images, it's frame rate limitations made it a non starter for the work I do. 

Please don't get on here making it sound like I'm bashing on any particular camera, I'm just outlining why one camera may be better for certain people. 

For me, the FS700 is still a perfectly great camera today just as the FS7, f5 and f55 are. The FS700 w/odyssey punches far far above its weight and judging it on its age or current second hand price is just wrong. 

I'm seeing FS700's w/ Odyssey's including 5+ batteries, 4x512GB CD SSD's, full cage etc going for $3500 AUD. I can't see the Pocket4k being any cheaper once I add a second monitor, batteries, the equivalent 4x500GB Cfast cards, ND's etc...but right now I can't be bothered doing the math.

What I am looking forward to with the Pocket4k is the colour science and the compressed RAW options. 

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

From everything I've heard the FS raw from a FS700 is better than the FS5/FS7 (because Sony slightly screwed up their FS raw implementations, for instance almost no one does FS raw from the FS7 because of this I think. However the FS5 of course gets a bigger leap forward than the FS7 by using external vs internal recordings)

And yeah, F5/FS7/FS700/FS5 all share the "same" sensor (but tweaked for each camera). 

 

Yup, can even do 4K 120fps from the FS700 FS raw. 

Basically the camera is crippled if doing internally, heck an a5100 toy might even do better 1080 24fps internal than a FS700!
 

Not at all! The Odyssey's 'supersampled' RAW to Prores 2K or 1080 convertion from the FS700 is fantastic. And for small jobs, just record ProRes Lt or 422. Also, with the Odyssey, you get an amazing monitor with great exposure/ focus aids and you gain a few sdi outputs. 

Ergonomics are not as good as the FS7 but image wise, the FS700 with odyssey is up there with the F5 and F55. 

20 minutes ago, kye said:

OK, let me have another go.

A camera can be released with what you determine to be major imaging problems because.......  it wasn't you making the decision, and they care about different things than you do.

I'd suggest that you're very lucky to not understand.  It's not uncommon for decisions in large corporations to be made straight after the boss says something like "either the product is going to be out on the street tomorrow morning or you are!"

"Lucky to not understand"... Patronising much? I'm in Melbourne, a friend of mine is a product manager at BMD though not the camera department and I've had conversations about this with him, though not directly relating to BMD. I understand perfectly.

This is all beside the point though. The issues that plagued 1st gen cameras were given as an example and way to ask a question: with the P4K, is product testing more stringent now or should we expect to see issues like those found in the BMD first gen cameras or even the Ursa Mini 4k considering the sensor is new to BMD. 

That's it. 

1 hour ago, Kieran said:

It happens. In the very early days of flatscreen HD TVs, I bought a very expensive Sony Bravia with 'Reality Engine' blah blah. I couldn't believe my eyes when I  first watched a closeup of a face on it. As the person talked, the eyes, nose and mouth would move slightly out of synch with each other. I went through all the settings but couldn't get rid of the slightly trippy effect. Needless to say I didn't have the TV for long and went back to having a CRT tv until the flatscreen tech was good enough. I decided then that being an early adopter was not necessarily a good idea. 

I have pre-ordered the BMPCC4K though ?

If it overheats, you can always eat it. 

Yes, first gen TV's. That's why I'm asking the question. BMDs cameras are not first gen now but this sensor is a first gen sensor for them hence the question..... Is it really that unreasonable a question? 

5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

"Normal shooting conditions" to you, but not to them. 

Having a hot light source in the frame is completely normal. As is shooting any indoor scene without the FPN and flicker that plagued Ursa Mini 4k. I used three copies and they were all un usable with the same issues unless shooting in bright sunlight.