wolf33d

8 hours ago, kye said:

Great thread.

Wouldn't it just be a matter of bitrate though?  120 is difficult in those busy deep DoF shots because the amount of data available for each frame is low and the IQ suffers accordingly because there's so much information in the frame to try and fit into that limited data.

I never understood why manufacturers didn't just scale the bitrate up with the frame rate - the idea of slow motion is to conform to the native frame rate..  

I think it’s mainly a question of resolution. 

In most of the mentionned cameras we get upscaled 720p thus poor looking images. It’s true that the bitrate is also too low for Sony for example.

what is the 120p bitrate on Z6/Z7? It’s 200mbps h265 on XT3 isn’t it? 

11 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah I have been pretty impressed with the Nikon Z7. But is is also pretty expensive. The Canon EOS-R is their cheaper one. But still no excuse to have the same old soft 1080p footage in this day and age. It is not like they don't know how to do good 1080p. Look at a C100, one of the best there is.

Actually Z6 is cheaper than the R.

Lol, welcome back to 5y ago with 1080p. 
By the way, from all videos I have seen it seems to me Z7 AF is actually better than EOS R for video. Everyone assume Canon DPAF is always the best but it does not seem that good in the R compared to other Canons. On the other end, the Z7 people had low expectation yet some footage are incredible AF wise

E2 is totally out of the question for me for many reasons. Thanks for pointing out the real size though. 

Like many others here, I assume XT3 120p is best, but I would love to see a real world footage comparison especially vs A7III and Z7 with busy scenes. The only person I am aware having the 3 cameras is @Andrew Reid

E2 is a big camera, nothing to do with XT3 and RX100, sorry forgot to exclude this category. 

 

With the new players (Z7, XT3, upcoming S1...) I think it would be cool to re-give the prize for best 120p in the market. 

@Andrew Reid you have both the XT3 and Z7, which one is better in 120p? Any footage comparison planned? 

All good 120p cameras now do good quality for close up (like a portrait and big bokeh) but you can easily tell them appart when you film a wide busy scene with water and grass for example: this is what is interesting to compare. 

Worth putting in the comparison IMO: A7III / RX100 / Z7 / XT3 / GH5 / 1DX2  and soon S1 and A7SIII

 The XT3 would blow the GH5s at the same price, so for $1500 there is no question. 

Better slowmo, better IQ, better colors, better DR, better DoF possibilities... There really is no comparison IMO. 

Wait, and the AF? For this feature alone the XT3 explodes the GH5. Panasonic and their 10y old AF tech can ... themselves. They dare releasing the same thing on the S1, what a joke. 
This camera industry like jokes. 

Fuji is doing a Fantastic job, it's a PITFA that we either have to choose APSC or MF where FF is the sweet spot for many people myself included. 
If Fuji would have been FF Instead of APSC, Canikon and Sony would shit themselves today. Imagine a XH2 (essentially soon a XT3 in a XH1 body) with best in class everything, but FF and similar glasses Fuji developed for APSC but for FF. Now that would be something, we would have it all, nice ergonomics, colors, AF, IBIS, 4K60p, 10 bit, great lenses and body ....

2 hours ago, androidlad said:

Latest A7S III news from Weibo:

Production sample does not have IBIS.

Quad base ISO.

4K 120P confirmed.

NO IBIS? This must be a joke. 

All companies keep saying 4K60P is difficult to achieve for FF because of heat and processing power. And now we would have 4K120p? 

All that hard to believe. Hope the IBIS is not true at least. 

4 hours ago, BasiliskFilm said:

What I really need though is an affordable, practical, compact, lightweight f2.8 run and gun standard lens like the Tamron 28-75. We know it can be done.

Exactly. The Tammy is the best lens I have ever used because it's so convenient, light yet super sharp and F2.8. 

I think having a couple of  primes with super big apertures is nice like a 35mm 1.4 is always great. But for traveling, mountain use and so one having one light 2.8 standard zoom is great and enough 80% of the time. 

The only lens I miss is the UWA to pair it so let's say a 16-28mm f2.8 from Tamron that is also very light. 

That would cover  16-75 f2.8 and even 16-110mm f2.8 in video with Sony crop mode for an absolute record weight. So exciting. We need this for the Nikon and Panasonic too

One question: I have read here and there that Sony has open its lens mount but not canikon with the mirrorless. Is it also true for Nikon and Canon DSLRs? If yes it does not seem too bad (good Sigma and tamron lenses for those).

We saw tamron offering a great lens for the FE. I am curious to see if there will be any difference with the same tamron for Z mount for instance. I hope not otherwise that really sucks hell. 

No way I pay 2200$ Lens when I get as good and lighter for 800$. 

That could be an immense advantage for Sony if true

7 hours ago, Yurolov said:

I'd say nikon is the best option for the future seeing as they have nothing to protect. They are the only ones who are offering a full frame 4k package with a broadcast codec (all be it external). Right off the bat their video af is seemingly as good as canon's. Their lenses also show a commitment toward video with breathless focusing. It certainly seems 4k60 and 10 bit internal will be on the next gen models. Plus for the z6 the entry point is still low if you have nikon glass. If you are getting into sony you are priced out pretty soon.

Say what you want about sony but they have given us the same crappy old codec and the same crappy old color science. I think its clear to anyone they are protecting their cine cameras. Canon ditto, but at least there you can get a good image out of them and the autofocus is nice. 

True for Nikon. True for Sony in past except AF and image is good. 

A7SIII is soon (2019) but Nikon next Z is far. And I think A7S will improve a lot what you say (codec, colors,...). I don’t think you can say Sony protect their cine line like canon 

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

1.8x crop on EOS R

Contrast AF on Panasonic

Sony ergonomics, unresponsiveness and menus

Samsung NX1 - pulled out of market

Fujifilm comes out well but no IBIS in their 10bit video model makes us pine for an X-H2

Nikon... Hard to see a downside apart from the pricing and availability?

 

Just one thing for me, 4K60p 

You are 1000% right in today’s market, but in 2019 it’s safe to assume that at least 2 FF will be 4K60 (Panasonic and Sony) and it’s also safe to assume that the Z6/Z7 won’t be updated in 2019. 

So it comes down again to me as : when will we get a 4K60 IBIS FF camera with good video AF? Seems like only A7S III but at what price ergonomically speaking...

However probably the safest bet for the futur is Nikon. Canon is always crippling their bodies in video. Sony has tried for years they never get the ergonomics right, Panasonic is dumbly focusing on AFD, Nikon however made massive improvement in video, so massive in fact that their next FF mirrorless is 4K60 for sure. It’s just gonna take a 2nd gen.

In any case this is an exciting time for photo and video. As much as I complain, I enjoyed a lot shooting with the A7III and got some crazy shots from this tiny package. Same with my Mavic, same with the GH5. I am definitely spoiled, it’s so great to have mirrorless compared to years ago...

3 hours ago, Snowbro said:

Get a used 1dx ii

No IBIS and way too huge and bulky. 

Especially when you consider 60% of my camera use is far in mountain backcountry...

On 10/1/2018 at 8:47 PM, Emanuel said:

I called it a miss. No 4K/60p today makes no sense at all. Not even through HDMI output? C'mon... Even GoPro and smartphones have it in-camera!

Something we have in common, pal, we both pursue the ideal cam, hard to come though LOL : )

My best bet is the X-H2 to bring IBIS coupled to the upcoming fastest mirrorless lens: 33mm f/1 (f/1.7 in 35mm terms); without mention a kit formed by 16mm f/1.4, 23mm f/2 & 50-140mm f/2.8 (not bad at longer end for a tele zoom) plus the 1.4x teleconverter, all that along 2019-20.

Yeah.. but see my recent post in the new Z7 review post from Andrew. 

Provleme is that all cameras have compromise. No 4K60p with canon and Nikon 

no FF and no IBIS with Fuji 

no good AF with Panasonic... 

always a compromise. 

FF is important for me not for video but stills. I am ok having two cameras now but preferably same system like A7SIII for video and a7iii for stills. If I get Fuji for video, I have to buy let’s say a Z6 for stills and carry 2 times different lenses and learn 2 ergonomics on the go : not cool. 

If only Z6 had 4K60p I would have bought a Z6 + Z7 and be done with it. 

So my best bet will probably be A7 III and A7SIII combo... let’s see next year in the meantime I might get the Fuji for upcoming video projects and sell it next year. 

I am so tired to change system every year just because there is no 4k60p FF with good AF and IBIS in market... 

Agree with Andrew, XT3 is fantastic with specs but lack of IBIS and FF is a pain. 

Canon is out of the question. 

Sony is late with A7SIII and they will have the usual ergonomics problems. 

Panasonic S fantastic but AF is such a deal breaker. 

Nikon got everything right except they aren’t releasing a super video camera like A7S / S1... no 4K60p... this is such a bummer. Not to mention poor lens choice but let’s say this is only going to improve with time. 

Again big compromises everywhere.

My guess is that it’s still will be a Sony win next year for my use because the A7S will be the only one to combine 4K60 with good AF and IBIS and FF. Pana AF is a Deal Breaker so is 4K30p on Z7, so is Canon so is lack of FF and ibis with XT3. 

It’s a shame because the Sony’s probably the least enjoyable camera to shoot with from the above.

21 hours ago, Emanuel said:

why I am just looking for Z7 Mark II?

4K/60fps. We might call it obsession. I'd rather see it as mandatory instead. As you know, I am not alone on that one, isn't it?

Not alone indeed. However, forget about Z7 mk2 coming in 3-4 years. 

We will get this next year for sure, with Panasonic, Sony and maybe others (canon still did not release their $3000+ Eos R, even though chances are for a FF canon mirorless doing 4K60p no crop we might have to wait 5 years  )

If it is an XT3 but with IBIS it would be interesting. Then after that the A7S III will be same but FF ..

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

How come?! You'll exactly have the same DOF as much as f/4 you have going with FF. 

12-35mm f/2.8 is lighter but slower comparing with FF where you have +2 stops of difference, so f/4 (FF) it is still 1-stop faster (35mm equivalent).

You show to handle all that in your math though... so?! : -)

Ah, you mean, lighter? Mirrorless is lighter.

Go figure when you'll put your hands in your glass for the new large format by Panasonic... Weren't you so enthusiastic about the idea? ; -)

Man, try the tamron on A73 and let me know if you ever use again a 24-105 f4 on this camera.

as for the “how come” : same dof yes but 2.8 gives you more light than 4 whichever sensor you use. 

I am not defending M43, I think it’s shit anyway. As is F4 zoom on FF

7 hours ago, Emanuel said:

As much as f/2 on MFT or f/2.4 on APS-C

Not really. At least they got more light. 

F/4 is slow, and not bokelicious. And it is still heavy and big because it's FF. Really, I don't see the point of F/4 on FF. 
Try the 28-75mm 2.8 tamron on A7III. With video APSC crop it goes to 105mm as well, it's cheaper, better, faster, lighter. And to have equivalent DoF on M43 you would need a 14-35 F1.4 !! Which does not exist. Here you have the real advantage of FF. Not with a garbage 24-70mm F4. I would rather have a GH5 with 12-35mm 2.8 then. More light, way lighter... almost same DoF

1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

I have always found this guy very reliable when it comes to Mavic videos, so I think this one is worth a look....

Word of caution: He is flogging some neat video noise profiles and some D Log LUTs for the Mavic 2, so if you find that sort of thing irritating in youtube videos, it is best avoided...

He is the best. Was waiting for his mavic 2 video Thanks for posting. 

On 9/27/2018 at 6:19 AM, androidlad said:

Leaks from Weibo:

Exmor RS sensor

4K 120P with crop

8bit/10bit X-OCN with grip

Link?!

6 hours ago, jhnkng said:

errr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-CM1

And? 

Any of this in the main cameras and cameras manufacturer ? This is an exception confirming the rule.

This is what I am talking about. When I say this japanese industry does not innovate at all. 

Bigger screen, ssd, integrated lightroom and direct share. This should be in our mirrorless cameras for 2 years. 
No they will keep the same button layout and design and screen as 10y ago. 

This camera will be probably niche and expensive, but bravo Zeiss. 

9 minutes ago, Attila Bakos said:

 

 

Impressive. 

I have to say, with Pana coming in March and A7S III delayed over and over, I might get one until I get either the Pana or Sony. The lack of IBIS is so annoying though. 

2 hours ago, Django said:

I'll grant you Canon is behind & slow in some aspects (IBIS, sensor tech) but in other places such as Dual Pixel AF, lenses, ND adapter.. they are innovative & class leading.

So it's not a question of defending, but weighing the pros & cons that fit your own needs. No camera is perfect. In the end you buy into a system, not just a body.

Okay so if Canon is class leading in ND adapters, I think I should be giving up too. 

Yes there are 2-3 areas where Canon shines such as DPAF. If All other cameras would be GH5 AF level that would be a big point. Fact is Sony, Fuji and Nikon now have fantastic video AF. They catch up quickly in the 2-3 points where Canon shines. 
For where Canon is behind, they are 5 years behind and they do not catch up. 
That's the difference and that's why it's not acceptable. It's acceptable to not be perfect in all aspects as you say no camera is perfect. Selling the R for $2200 with those extreme limitations is not acceptable for me. Even for photography only, the 5DIV/ EOS R sensor catches up with 5y old Sony sensor.