richg101

Right, so I downloaded my original file from vimeo (a 1gb file lasting 7mins, so you do the bitrate mathematics - lots of the original 50mbs xavc-s data lost in the original export).  
The original file had seen no adjustments at all.  just an interpret from 50p to 25p.  - as we all know the 50p mode on the a7s isn;t as good as the 25p mode, so the sony was at a disadvantage in bitrate terms from the moment i pressed record.
Camera was set to auto exposure, and auto white balance.  s-log was disabled.  i was using neutral creative style with contrast and sharpening dialled down to -3.
 
I just put the vimeo downloaded file into premiere and applied a contrast and saturation boost using 'ProcAmp'.  
- this provides a 32bit workspace adjustment of brightness -24, contrast +146, and saturation +140.  
No grading was applied.  if this was shot in s-log all I;d have to do to get the same contrast is to adjust contrast and brightness in procamp more strongly.  
 
The biggest problem with users is that they overcomplicate things.  if accuracy is important an image doesn't need ANY colour correction if the wb is set correctly at the start.  all it needs is a change to the levels to provide the blacks and whites, then finally a midtone adjustment.  a flat rec709 profile just needs less adjustment than a log profile.
 
Anyway, I'm done with this thread.  go use your nikon if it makes things easier. 
 
 

Right, so I downloaded my original file from vimeo (a 1gb file lasting 7mins, so you do the bitrate mathematics - lots of the original 50mbs xavc-s data lost in the original export).  
The original file had seen no adjustments at all.  just an interpret from 50p to 25p.  - as we all know the 50p mode on the a7s isn;t as good as the 25p mode, so the sony was at a disadvantage in bitrate terms from the moment i pressed record.
Camera was set to auto exposure, and auto white balance.  s-log was disabled.  i was using neutral creative style with contrast and sharpening dialled down to -3.
 
I just put the vimeo downloaded file into premiere and applied a contrast and saturation boost using 'ProcAmp'.  
- this provides a 32bit workspace adjustment of brightness -24, contrast +146, and saturation +140.  
No grading was applied.  if this was shot in s-log all I;d have to do to get the same contrast is to adjust contrast and brightness in procamp more strongly.  
 
The biggest problem with users is that they overcomplicate things.  if accuracy is important an image doesn't need ANY colour correction if the wb is set correctly at the start.  all it needs is a change to the levels to provide the blacks and whites, then finally a midtone adjustment.  a flat rec709 profile just needs less adjustment than a log profile.
 
Anyway, I'm done with this thread.  go use your nikon if it makes things easier. 
 
 

Some people will never have the drive to persevere and succeed with things.  You find it's often these people who blame the equipment rather than finding a way to make it work and yield the best from something.  I just think it's madness to go to a vastly inferior camera (if only the fact that the lens mount is limited, let alone the poorer overall image quality) just because it has a picture profile that gives a desired result without any effort.

Please share some material of yours that backs up the counterargument to the one I'm making.  and also read the video description before coming to conclusions.   if you can see blacks and whites in uncorrected flat material then it's serious under or over exposed.  This is correctly exposed, with a overcast sunlight so contrast is naturally low anyway. so there are no whites or blacks   Download the original file and apply a contrast adjustment and the colour looks right.  We're not talking about contrast, blacks or white.  we're discussing colour accuracy.   
this was shot auto white balance with no adjustments.  If you can;t get a good image from this original file It's your fault not the camera. 
 

I expect there are lots of finished pieces shot on Sony Alpha series where colour is to your liking, but not everyone lists the camera they used in the description.  And usually the best work never has the camera listed because it's the last thing they think to include.  I think if I ever find myself in a position where I have the time to shoot material for myself rather than to show a specific lens character (for business purposes) I'd also not include the camera used - as a result the views obtained will be for the quality of the work rather than for consumers and forum users to use for reference before making a purchase.  It so happens that if i list the camera in my descriptions it brings more hits from those looking for samples of a camera, and sells more lenses to those not aware how much impact the lens has on the image.
 
 I keep putting this up as an example.  But to me I see ZERO problems with colour here.  We have proper light, good, clear and healthy skin, and a naturally pleasing lens for skintones.  If i gave this footage to any colourist worth talking to they'd have no complaints about the image.  This sample footage is exactly why so many colourists and post experts seem to be interested in the dso lenses.  if it chimes well with real colourists then it's good enough for forum chumps like us.
 
Anyway, I'd like to see some of the so called bad footage from the thread starter before I make any more comments.  Let's see the image he got from the a7rii and the image he gets from the d750.  I know for a fact that the flaws he left the camera because of were user error and nothing to do with the camera.
 

Please share some material of yours that backs up the counterargument to the one I'm making.  and also read the video description before coming to conclusions.   if you can see blacks and whites in uncorrected flat material then it's serious under or over exposed.  This is correctly exposed, with a overcast sunlight so contrast is naturally low anyway. so there are no whites or blacks   Download the original file and apply a contrast adjustment and the colour looks right.  We're not talking about contrast, blacks or white.  we're discussing colour accuracy.   
this was shot auto white balance with no adjustments.  If you can;t get a good image from this original file It's your fault not the camera. 
 

I expect there are lots of finished pieces shot on Sony Alpha series where colour is to your liking, but not everyone lists the camera they used in the description.  And usually the best work never has the camera listed because it's the last thing they think to include.  I think if I ever find myself in a position where I have the time to shoot material for myself rather than to show a specific lens character (for business purposes) I'd also not include the camera used - as a result the views obtained will be for the quality of the work rather than for consumers and forum users to use for reference before making a purchase.  It so happens that if i list the camera in my descriptions it brings more hits from those looking for samples of a camera, and sells more lenses to those not aware how much impact the lens has on the image.
 
 I keep putting this up as an example.  But to me I see ZERO problems with colour here.  We have proper light, good, clear and healthy skin, and a naturally pleasing lens for skintones.  If i gave this footage to any colourist worth talking to they'd have no complaints about the image.  This sample footage is exactly why so many colourists and post experts seem to be interested in the dso lenses.  if it chimes well with real colourists then it's good enough for forum chumps like us.
 
Anyway, I'd like to see some of the so called bad footage from the thread starter before I make any more comments.  Let's see the image he got from the a7rii and the image he gets from the d750.  I know for a fact that the flaws he left the camera because of were user error and nothing to do with the camera.
 

Please share some material of yours that backs up the counterargument to the one I'm making.  and also read the video description before coming to conclusions.   if you can see blacks and whites in uncorrected flat material then it's serious under or over exposed.  This is correctly exposed, with a overcast sunlight so contrast is naturally low anyway. so there are no whites or blacks   Download the original file and apply a contrast adjustment and the colour looks right.  We're not talking about contrast, blacks or white.  we're discussing colour accuracy.   
this was shot auto white balance with no adjustments.  If you can;t get a good image from this original file It's your fault not the camera. 
 

Please share some material of yours that backs up the counterargument to the one I'm making.  and also read the video description before coming to conclusions.   if you can see blacks and whites in uncorrected flat material then it's serious under or over exposed.  This is correctly exposed, with a overcast sunlight so contrast is naturally low anyway. so there are no whites or blacks   Download the original file and apply a contrast adjustment and the colour looks right.  We're not talking about contrast, blacks or white.  we're discussing colour accuracy.   
this was shot auto white balance with no adjustments.  If you can;t get a good image from this original file It's your fault not the camera. 
 

Brandon Li can do it, but it does seem awfully rare.

I understand people have preferences but there are some things that should be stated correctly. 
1. HD FF resolution is better on the A7rII than the D750

2. Rolling shutter is also faster on the A7rII with FF HD than the D750.
A7rII HD ~ 13ms
D750 HD ~ 20ms (similar to the 5DMIII as shown here)
3. As others have mentioned, while motion cadence can be influenced by the codec and the camera most of the cases it is other things such as shutter angle that cause problems. Personally I have not experienced the issues that you mentioned and in a comparisson here with the A7s and GH4 I cannot see a difference:
 4. Color science just  means correct white balance + some custom color profile. I am going to agree with the point that some cameras such as D750 or the Canons have better color out of the box. But that is very different from saying the Sony cannot produce nice colors. Anyone that is serious about video should calibrate the camera colors to their preferences (Sony allows you to)  and do a proper white balance before each shot. For example using S-log3/S-gammut for everything with some random LUTs and AWB, will most definitely lead to bad colors. 
Again it is fine not to like a camera but we should separate personal preferences from the usefulness of the camera. At the end, cameras are just tools and we should find ways to make the best out of them. 
 

Camera 2 is the Fuji X Pro 2.

six 19w 90+CRI LED heads.  With CREE XT 4000k diodes.  each on a flash tripod, and each with 10meters of cable.  3 of the heads are 30 degree spots and 3 are 140 degree floods.  works out at under 120watts for the whole setup, but I recon this kicks out the same usable light as 2 or 3 500w halogen worklamps.
 
Worked out at just under £400 for the entire setup.  so way more expensive than halogen floods but I recon I;d get 2hrs run time off a 18hole sealed lead acid golf battery.
 
 

Very rarely do the colours in hollywood films represent exactly how the scene looked.  Unless you have been to that exact forest, at the exact time he shot the film you can't make judgement on the accuracy of the colour.  I simply posted that sample to show that both pleasing colours and motion can be achieved by a skilled camera person and careful grading.  Most dslrs would fall apart if you tried to pull images around as much as he has done to get this look.
 
  

The a7rii doesnt have bad colour science.  it's just different to canon and nikon, which are different to red which is different to arri, black magic, etc.  subjective.  There is nothing that careful rgb curves can't sort out.  If specific colour is important it's probably best to learn how to set and use white balance bias, tweek profiles, and learn rgb curves rather than discard a superb imaging machine with such potential for glass.  Glass is way more important than the camera. - being able to select from any type of lens is worth the effort of learning how to get the required results from a camera in my book.
'awful' motion is subjective but assuming you are getting unsatisfying motion and rolling shutter you're probably not rigging the camera properly.  fitting a cage to add weight to the camera and learning how to shoot with it to avoid micro wobble is a very good way to remove rolling shutter - as is the ibis.  
perfect example of a piece of work by someone who got to grips with how to get the most from the a7rii.  lots of hand held stuff..  no motion issues.  lots of colours, no colour issues.
 
 

forbes70 is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
alex jones said it was a hot topic at the last bilderberg meeting... theyre obsessed with anything they cant control

The a7rii doesnt have bad colour science.  it's just different to canon and nikon, which are different to red which is different to arri, black magic, etc.  subjective.  There is nothing that careful rgb curves can't sort out.  If specific colour is important it's probably best to learn how to set and use white balance bias, tweek profiles, and learn rgb curves rather than discard a superb imaging machine with such potential for glass.  Glass is way more important than the camera. - being able to select from any type of lens is worth the effort of learning how to get the required results from a camera in my book.
'awful' motion is subjective but assuming you are getting unsatisfying motion and rolling shutter you're probably not rigging the camera properly.  fitting a cage to add weight to the camera and learning how to shoot with it to avoid micro wobble is a very good way to remove rolling shutter - as is the ibis.  
perfect example of a piece of work by someone who got to grips with how to get the most from the a7rii.  lots of hand held stuff..  no motion issues.  lots of colours, no colour issues.
 
 

It's a little more complicated than that.  

The a7rii doesnt have bad colour science.  it's just different to canon and nikon, which are different to red which is different to arri, black magic, etc.  subjective.  There is nothing that careful rgb curves can't sort out.  If specific colour is important it's probably best to learn how to set and use white balance bias, tweek profiles, and learn rgb curves rather than discard a superb imaging machine with such potential for glass.  Glass is way more important than the camera. - being able to select from any type of lens is worth the effort of learning how to get the required results from a camera in my book.
'awful' motion is subjective but assuming you are getting unsatisfying motion and rolling shutter you're probably not rigging the camera properly.  fitting a cage to add weight to the camera and learning how to shoot with it to avoid micro wobble is a very good way to remove rolling shutter - as is the ibis.  
perfect example of a piece of work by someone who got to grips with how to get the most from the a7rii.  lots of hand held stuff..  no motion issues.  lots of colours, no colour issues.
 
 

The a7rii doesnt have bad colour science.  it's just different to canon and nikon, which are different to red which is different to arri, black magic, etc.  subjective.  There is nothing that careful rgb curves can't sort out.  If specific colour is important it's probably best to learn how to set and use white balance bias, tweek profiles, and learn rgb curves rather than discard a superb imaging machine with such potential for glass.  Glass is way more important than the camera. - being able to select from any type of lens is worth the effort of learning how to get the required results from a camera in my book.
'awful' motion is subjective but assuming you are getting unsatisfying motion and rolling shutter you're probably not rigging the camera properly.  fitting a cage to add weight to the camera and learning how to shoot with it to avoid micro wobble is a very good way to remove rolling shutter - as is the ibis.  
perfect example of a piece of work by someone who got to grips with how to get the most from the a7rii.  lots of hand held stuff..  no motion issues.  lots of colours, no colour issues.
 
 

It's flexible and good enough to get the job done.  Go shoot something!

A Nikon D750 could outperform an Alexa but it's still limited by the Nikon lens mount and focus direction.  A nikon dslr has about 1/10th of the optics selection that the 5dmk3 has at its disposal and around 1/100th of the selection that the a7rii has.
Go to a almost any video rental house and there aint no Nikons to be seen - all because of the lens mount!  
 
I'd take the ability to run any cinema or stills lenses (and I mean any lens) on the a7rii in exchange for the quirks and more often the learning curve faced by most who jumped on (and jumped off too quickly) the a7 bandwagon without taking the care to learn how to get the best from it.  
 
  

A Nikon D750 could outperform an Alexa but it's still limited by the Nikon lens mount and focus direction.  A nikon dslr has about 1/10th of the optics selection that the 5dmk3 has at its disposal and around 1/100th of the selection that the a7rii has.
Go to a almost any video rental house and there aint no Nikons to be seen - all because of the lens mount!  
 
I'd take the ability to run any cinema or stills lenses (and I mean any lens) on the a7rii in exchange for the quirks and more often the learning curve faced by most who jumped on (and jumped off too quickly) the a7 bandwagon without taking the care to learn how to get the best from it.  
 
  

I believe when it comes to colour, S-Log was way better implemented on their Cinealta range than on the Alpha range.  ie. the implementation of S-Log on the f3, f35 and f65 was more carefully undergone and delivers more trustworthy results.  I expect @Ed David could shed some insight on the Cinealta range from the era of the F3.
Looking at the F3, I can't see a reason not to go for it at the current price.  as long as you can budget for an aftermarket fz mount adaptor or PL mount glass, as well as rigging and the external recorder for 4;4;4 you'll likely not find a more powerful camera.  I'd take 4;4;4 1080p from the F3 over any 4k dslr.

Most of the options on the lower end sony stuff are there to fulfil the needs of forum consumers who hanker for such options then never have a need for them.  There are a handful of people who delve into the menus and understand what everything does based on their experiences with the higher end gear, being colourists, etc.  Most of the advanced stuff in the alpha range is there for creative people who might wish to make use of the options and are also willing to experiment and learn for themselves.  As a general rule, those who need step by step guides with stuff relating to creativity, self learning etc won;t ever really take advantage of such features or functions anyway.  It's a bit like a motherboard manufacturer.  the instructions you get with a motherboard/ram/prosessors are basic.  the true potential from a motherboard and the rest of the components are only attained by those who seek to delve deep.  Most people pay through the nose for a squeaky clean apple macbook pro which costs twice the price and is capable of half the processing power of a tuned desktop made by a 17yr old geek.  since they are unwilling/unable to understand the more complex aspects of cumputer technology and simply have no need for the added performance.   I like to think of it as a quality control thing.  If it were easy, everyone would be a dop/colourist.
 
when it comes to acoustic instruments i expect your online guides are serving as a buying guide rather than a user guide - so people know which to buy based on their particular playing style, personal preference to the sound, etc.  usually those who invest in a musical instrument do so for a different reason than most who buy a camera.  a musical instrument like a clarinet is not a consumer/throw away purchase in the same was a sony alpha camera usually is.       With a purchase of a clarinet comes dedication, investment in professional music lessons, etc - things that can;t be learned from youtube tutorials.