sanveer

On 2/27/2022 at 10:34 AM, Video Hummus said:

On Semi doesn't have any 4/3 sensors listed on their product page. I doubt they are the provider.

That leaves Samsung as a possibility.

Except Sony, most other sensor manufacturers, especially of specialised sensors, don't really disclose sensor details, until much later, if at all. Also, if its a Canon sensor, I doubt Panasonic would wanna disclose it. They are anyway so guarded about sensor details.

I wish Samsung were in the game, again. Though I doubt it. There is some secret code among sensor makers, and most make the same or similar sensors, and development seems almost, secretly, together or similar.

5 hours ago, kye said:

Panasonic DC GH5 is 0% (0.1 mm) wider and 2% (2.2 mm) shorter than Panasonic Lumix GH6.

Panasonic DC GH5 is 12% (12.2 mm) thinner than Panasonic Lumix GH6.

Panasonic DC GH5 [725 g] weights 12% (98 grams) less than Panasonic Lumix GH6 [823 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card).

Interesting, most of the size increase seems to have been due to the new articulating screen and the sturucyursly sturdiness of the frame. 

I don't know if this has been posted before, but this review is very important from a user's perspective (IMHO). Also, he tests a lot of things, especially in comparison to many previous M43 cameras, and also the A1 (for autofocus). 

On 2/22/2022 at 6:45 PM, Django said:

info:

Panasonic is being distinctly tight-lipped about the fabrication process, which strongly suggests the camera isn't using the Stacked CMOS technology that's underpinned the latest generation of high-end cameras. Although we don't have absolute confirmation, we think it's extremely likely to be a BSI design. The GH6's sensor, which we're told is 'not made by the company everyone always assumes we use,' features a dual output gain design. This is not to be confused with the switchabledual gain sensors we've seen in an increasing majority of modern cameras, but instead is closer to the design used in Arri and some Canon cinema cameras. The sensor has two, parallel output paths and at high ISO settings, the output from both paths is combined to give both highlight and shadow detail.

So it isn't a Sony sensor for a change(?). It wouldn't be TowerJazz Semiconductor/ Tower Semi, I am guessing, either. Like someone on some rumours blog suggested (photorumors/ 43rumors?), it's probably an ONSemi sensor. Maybe by not having 14-bit ADC and impressing it for a 16-bit image (having it limited to 12-bit, both ways, meaning recording and delivery), they could substantially reduce sensor costs, and not have a conflict of interest with Arri. Arri has like a few hundred sensors manufactured each year, and Panasonic hopes go have a few thousands, thus leveraging economies of scale and tech specs to (substantially) lower costs.

Sony does dual gain, but that's quite different. Also, I am not sure Canon supplies sensor to Panasonic (they could if they don't see issues with specific markets). I also vaguely remember Panasonic saying it's similar to Arri or something on those lines.

Interestingly, while some testers are mentioning banding lines when pointed towards lights, I though that that's something that's visible for the majority of CMOS sensor. Maybe even super fast sensors like the Z9 or A1 would have it under certain scenarios (the A9 did, I clearly remember). People seem to notice it now, because one guy mentioned it and everyone is pointing it towards flickering LED light sources now.

Maybe having different rates of lights and sensor readout acerbates the problem (use the Synchro Scan feature to figure the right frame rate and shutter speed for you?).

7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Since I am not in the market for one, I have not really watched too many of the GH6 videos, but have they changed the Color Science, that would be my biggest knock if they didn't.

Yes. Caleb mentioned that the new colour science is vastly improved. 

38 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

German test site Slashcam states, that Prores will also be enabled for various 4k and HD modes later via firmware update. Would love that and would love to hear that info from Matt Frazer, who did a great job on representing the GH4 and GH5 back then.

This is a screengrab from the livestream.

P.S. I JUST noticed that @Roger posted it above

4 hours ago, Superka said:

About the streaks on Panasonic GH6. My Sony a7c has the same. Fuji X-T3, 4 also does.

Why Gerals never told about it on those cameras?

Selective bias.

Also, I hope Panasonic release a chart like Blackmagic does for the Shadows and Highlights for the 4k and 6k cameras, helping understand where almost perfect exposure would lay (is allocated) apart from the histogram, across ISOs (especially for extended ISO). 

Waiting for Andrew's review. I believe he got to test the GH6 (for quite a while?). 

5 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I actually didn't watch 99% of the review. I had to run out the door for a twilight photo shoot so I just skipped ahead to the autofocus test.

I will watch the Media Division review tomorrow when I have time. Gotta edit till 2:00 this morning.

As shared by @webrunner5, watch this guy instead

36 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Just started watching Gerald Undone's review.

I thought his review was so exaggerated. He was like "when ypu want the best impossible image, M43 is dead". Whoa, it almost seemed like he was dumped today or yesterday. 

23 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

It seems OM1 has really good internal NR, applied at RAW debayer level:

I noticed that from the pics online too.

The OM-1 seems quite promising, though it could have done with a CfastCF Express Type cards (much higher buffer?), higher video bitrates, 4k at 120fps, a faster mechanical shutter, and a $1999 price tag to capture a larger market(?)

24 minutes ago, hoodlum said:

Here are the full specs. 
 

https://www.scribd.com/document/559418125/Panasonic-Lumix-GH6-MFT-Camera-Full-Specifications

 

"Latitude

Dynamic Range Boost ON: 13+ stops (V-Log) Dynamic Range Boost OFF: 12+ stops (V-Log)Still Image Recording file formatJPEG (DCF, Exif 2.31), RAWAspect ratio4:3 / 3:2 / 16:9 / 1:1File size (Pixels)4:3: 5776x4336(L) / 4096x3072(M) / 2944x2208(S) / 11552x8672(XL) / 8192x6144(LL)3:2: 5776x3848(L) / 4096x2728(M) / 2944x1960(S) / 11552x7696(XL) / 8192x5464(LL)16:9: 5776x3248(L) / 4096x2304(M) / 2944x1656(S) / 11552x6496(XL) / 8192x4608(LL)1:1: 4336x4336(L) / 3072x3072(M) / 2208x2208(S) / 8672x8672(XL) / 6144x6144(LL)Image qualityRAW / RAW+Fine / RAW+Standard / Fine / StandardColor spacesRGB, AdobeRGBMotion Picture Recording file formatMOV: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, H.265/HEVC, Apple ProResMP4: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, H.265/HEVCAudio formatMOV: LPCM (2ch 48kHz/24-bit, 96kHz/24-bit) (4ch 48kHz/24-bit, 96kHz/24-bit)MP4: AAC (2ch 48kHz/16-bit)System frequency59.94Hz / 50.00Hz / 24.00HzImage area of videoFull / Pixel by PixelViewfinder TypeOLED Live View FinderPixelsApprox. 3.68 million dots

Dynamic Range Boost ON / OFF

ISO sensitivityStill image:[Normal]: Auto / 50 (Extended ISO) / 100-25600[V-Log]: Auto / 125 (Extended ISO) / 250-12800Motion picture:[Normal]:Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 100): Auto / 50 (Extended ISO) / 100-12800Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 800): Auto / 800-12800[V-Log]:Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 250): Auto / 125 (Extended ISO) / 250-12800Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 2000): Auto / 2000-12800[Hybrid Log Gamma]:Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 250): Auto / 250-12800Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 2000): Auto / 2000-12800 (Standardoutput sensitivity)"

Curious to know how effective the dynamic range boost would be. 

5 minutes ago, sanveer said:

The accompanying video by the japanese guy outlined a lot of the specs. I don't remember whether it had a frame of the ProRes though. 

I saw the video again. Data rate doesn't seem to be mentioned in English numbers (unless it was in Japanese). At 6:39 or so he shows the ProRes recording option on the menu. 

6 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

It's a leak / rumour / planted item.

Do people think this data rate is correct - 5.7K 30p Apple ProRes 422 HQ 1.9Gbps - seems awful high!

The accompanying video by the japanese guy outlined a lot of the specs. I don't remember whether it had a frame of the ProRes though. 

I didn't realise the full specs were already shared.

Seems quite promising. I am curious about the autofocus, the dynamic range and low light improvements.

17 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

That they offer nothing else new in the GH6 (cough, 8K) this one inclusion of organic sensor technology (re: global shutter, 15–16 stops DR, Variable ND) would be cause for major celebration by this user.

Your be glad to know that 14 stops is the theoretical limitation of a senior's dynamic range, because of the lens flare. So everyone claiming 17 stops, are just gassing. Without exceptional lens coatings on on all lenses of the various lens elements, it is apparently impossible to breach the 14 stops limit. "Camera DR is often limited by flare light, which is stray light in the image, primarily caused by reflections between lens elements."

https://www.imatest.com/2019/07/making-dynamic-range-measurements-robust-against-flare-light/#:~:text=Introduction,by reflections between lens elements.

17 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

He goes on to say, "But this organic sensor technology will be implemented into the cinema and studio camera and even into the consumer including Lumix after the Tokyo Olympic Games." at the 2:35 Mark (above link) back in 2019 at IBC.

That organic sensor was apparently a gas-guzzler/ battery leech, and the advantage of the organic sensor was mostly imaginary BS ala the Emperor's New Clothes. 

If anything the Blackmagic 12k is superb for what it does. It does 12k and 8k, and many other resolutions, many with no crop. If Panasonic did their homework well, they could have picked that sensor and tweak the circuit for improving things, for 8k. They were too busy chasing their imaginary organic sensor (Samsung btw has some interesting paper on an organic sensor, which seemed more promising, though not sure what happened to it). 

2 hours ago, hoodlum said:

This is around the time we would get a spec leak from Nokishita but sadly no more.

Didn't they suspend their Twitter account. Some over-reaction by corporations, who weren't too happy with leaks(?)

On M43 rumours there are murmurs of the OM having the 20MP 120fps sensor with 2 stops improvement in low light, and the GH6 apparently slated for a 25MP sensor (for the 5.7k). 

6 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Mist interesting of all, Sony presented its stacked CMOS image sensor technology with 2-Layer Transistor Pixel, widening Dynamic Range and Reduces Noise by approximately Doubling Saturation Signal Level (since surface area isn't being wasted, because the photo diode pixel transistor are in the same level (so only 50% area is used for the photo diode). Theoretically this should sensor at the same pixel seem much better in detail and dynamic range. The question would be, by how much. 

Because it Theoretically Doubles the Pixel Size via a viz signal strength (actually doubles the pixel area). 

11 hours ago, kye said:

it might have just kept the 5K resolution from the GH5 but have 5k500, 4k750 and 2k1200 fps or something.  

🤣 Unlikely. 

11 hours ago, kye said:

It might have a Dual Gain (not dual ISO) architecture like the Alexa sensor and output 14-bit LOG with huge dynamic range.

Not likely either. Which is sad, cause Samsung and Sony both presented papers on Triple Gain sensors (for smaller sensors, I guess), and if Panasonic wanted they could have made the most of the tech, for a M43 sensors. 

11 hours ago, kye said:

It might pull some other rabbit from the hat.  Who knows.  MFT certainly isn't suited to the resolution race due to the pixel size required, so maybe they'll go huge in some other way?

I thought it was established that the resolution advantage is mostly blurred after a certain point, and better noise, lenses etc mostly blur the lines. Steve Yedlin's and hundreds of other presentation on resolution go into the exaggerated claims and why after a point why it doesn't matter.

Arri's discussion on it seems quite interesting. 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/14/arri-managing-director-franz-kraus-talks-about-resolution-hdr-and-the-arri-65/

Mist interesting of all, Sony presented its stacked CMOS image sensor technology with 2-Layer Transistor Pixel, widening Dynamic Range and Reduces Noise by approximately Doubling Saturation Signal Level (since surface area isn't being wasted, because the photo diode pixel transistor are in the same level (so only 50% area is used for the photo diode). Theoretically this should sensor at the same pixel seem much better in detail and dynamic range. The question would be, by how much. 

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/news/2021/2021121601.html

More than anything else I am curious why nobody feels the Blackmagic 12k Camera No Crop Resolutions is a big deal. Especially for its price point, shooting 12k at 60p  8k and 4k at 120fps, Without Cropping or Changing Your Field of View.

Wonder why nobody seems to have gone that path. 

3 hours ago, kye said:

I think there are really two paths forward, the addition of mind-bending specs or just doing a solid upgrade and rounding out the whole package.  The A7S3 did the latter - it didn't up the resolution or any major features but just became a better all-around package.  I'd be happy with a GH6 that was a GH5 with the weaknesses remedied.  The GH5 was a workhorse with some weaknesses so I guess we'll see.

The GH6 is such a minor upgrade in most ways, that, it's 'a GH5 with the weaknesses remedied'. That's good enough, even if solely improves dynamic range and Autofocus.

I sometimes feel that the GH5 was was 90% already there, and only a few minor improvement would keep it relevant for another half decade.

5.7k should have been complete 6k, at 60p.

4k at 120fps.

Dynamic Range improvements.

Usable video ISO 6400

PDAF comparable to that on Sony and Canon cameras 

Having much better AR coating across all lenses and on the sensor, should help improve dynamic range.

Full Vlog

Make it a Netflix Certified Camera 😎

One last, extra, would be to work with Topaz Labs to have upressing to 8k video and Photos at 40-60MP, purely by software upressing. This should make to compare to the 8k Cameras and the 50+MP Cameras. 

Actually many manufacturers have been wanting to get out of China since the beginning of 2020. The Pandemic and the whole expansionism contributed big time to it. The Japanese Government even paid businesses billions of yen to move out of China (https://www.bloombergquint.com/global-economics/japan-to-pay-at-least-536-million-for-companies-to-leave-china).

I believe many other countries with manufacturing in China did too, and many large ones left are contemplating too. The environment for manufacturing has been losing its advantage for a while now, and the whole friction with its Asian neighbours, was probably the last nail.in the coffin (surprisingly, not Covid or the terrible lockdown so much). 

Apple seems to be one of the few ones, that has been able to retain much (not all) of its advantage. It pays higher wages than before, but their other sweat shop practices, apparently haven't gone. They paid enormous sums apparently including the majority as political money, to continue running their sweat shops.

https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/07/apple-china-iphone-pledge/

Seems quite average. The image seemed way too flary, and the movement is dull. 

19 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I've been testing it here with a few devices... Very interesting user interface, as Spartan as I like it : )

But, the more processing power the better, I don't recommend old slow chips, it doesn't make sense, for the sake of it, the newer and top the better : )

Works like a charm, incredible tool, fairly filmmaking friendly as expected IMO ; )

I just detect a bug so far but if you reboot it you're fine : ))

I only miss faster frame rates other than 24/25/30... but you have slower range for your joy experiments so very eclectic, one of my fav apps so far < 3

@Andrew Reid what about an article about it, pal? :- )

What device did you get to test it on? I hope they list the devices it works best on (stability, more frame rate options etc). 

Btw, I read a rumour that the new Samsung 22 Ultra is going to shoot RAW. If it shoots raw video, that would be superb. It already does 10-bit upressed to 12-bit HDR for photos, so I hope its 12-bit RAW video. Not sure why smartphone makers are already supporting RAW. If their cameras can do 10-bit 4-2-0 already, and 8k (8-bit?), I am sure they have the bandwidth and the processing power. Any even get that rubbish Camera2API on devices, with its limiting features.