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The impact of 5D Mark III raw and what does Vincent Laforet think of it?

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5d-mark-iii-raw-rig-2

This was a great week. It is the first time we've seen this kind of moving image from a full frame sized sensor in raw. A pristine 2K 14bit image that's like a 24fps digital film negative or a digital scan of Super 35mm. It's also a breakthrough for accessibility bringing raw video to many talents for the first time, when the only other accessible raw shooting cameras out there have been in extremely limited supply.

[url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10407/the-impact-of-5d-mark-iii-raw-and-what-does-vincent-laforet-think-of-it]Read the full article here[/url]
earnesync likes this

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Best use of a Blackmagic cage to date!

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Haha. Well had to fill the empty space!

 

That is the Wooden Camera Cage. ReWo cage is superb but obvious by design does not fit the 5D Mark III. I have their 5D Mark II cage, will try that.

 

When the Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT model does finally arrive, I'll keep it but I don't need the EF version any more now I have the 5D Mark III. Raw and image quality was the only reason I bought one.

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"Vincent: " – and can the body TRULY survive doing this over time (heat/damage?)""

 

1. I bet it runs a trace cooler if anything.

2. Even if it did eventually do something (and I don't see how it would anymore than using Liveview a lot would) look at the price of it!

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None of those guys will embrace this.  The only one I haven't heard from is Hurlbut and I'd imagine he'll be negative about it too... but secretly wishing this had happened around Act of Valor. 

 

It may be a hack, but these guys release versions so reliable they label them "Alpha".. and working professionals rely on them.  I'm happy with my C100 - Ninja combo, but 2 months ago I had a Mark 3.  These results are speaking for themselves.

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The people with the guarded response to the raw file developments with the EOS cameras likely get some compensation from equipment manufacturers that they won't get from free software for the EOS bodies.

 

If you go to cinematography forums, you don't always hear and see so much talk about cameras, because there is so much more to filmmaking. The common equipment bloggers are not so well known in those forums and in many cases derided as receiving some compensation for their constant equipment promoting or just not really having the experience as long time cinematographers. A photo of someone standing next to a camera they don't even use was one example of this that was discussed.

 

So is a lot of the equipment they tend to promote.

 

This firmware is in its infant stage. Every day more improvements in workflow and programming happen.

Truly an independent labor of love free from the commercialism that in many cases stifles true innovation.

 

Canon would likely benefit by embracing this effort. I recently purchased 2 eos bodies and 4 lenses so I could benefit from the magic lantern firmware. It's not likely that I will ever buy a C500 or any other camera that will be worth about 1/2 of the retail cost 2 years from its original availability, magic lantern or not.

 

However, if they ever manage to hack the C-300 in the same way I might consider buying a used one.

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"Vincent: " – and can the body TRULY survive doing this over time (heat/damage?)""

 

The camera has a thermometer inside and Magic Lantern displays the temperature on the LCD with global draw. I haven't noticed any heat problems yet, and with people doing 12hr continuous card tests for raw, I think we can safely say the electronics can handle it.

 

Raw takes less CPU power as it requires less processing.

 

When copying a huge file from a USB drive, does your MacBook overheat? No.

 

People don't understand the inner workings when they say damage will occur due to a software process.

 

One of the most obvious attempts to protect vested interests was from Michael Sutton earlier this week on Twitter where he claimed to have 'insider NDA knowledge' from a Canon engineer that the raw recording would damage the sensor.

 

Actually the sensor is constantly outputting raw when in live view mode with or without Magic Lantern. It is designed to do it, and to do so until the battery goes flat.

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Who cares what Vincent Laforet thinks? What matters is what you think. May I ask, why do so many websites put Vincent Laforet on a pedestal? Why? Just curious, I'm not meaning for that to sound negative.

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"C Series and other cameras are what people should be focusing on"

 

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a man sponsored by Canon who's main focus in the last 6 months has been to convince the public that the C series is where it's at would speak against the mother of all hacks that completely undercuts the value of the C series of cameras. 

Halycon, Julian, Germy1979 and 2 others like this

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I like the image so much that I have decided to adjust my strategy for the cameras I shoot with.

 

Out goes the Sony FS100. That was my main low light tool but now the 5D Mark III with raw is that.

 

Blackmagic EF mount version will also be sold. I have the Pocket Cinema Camera and 4K AND MFT versions pre-ordered!! I don't need all of them and can use my EF glass on the 5D. I am heavily invested in Micro Four Thirds glass so will likely keep the MFT Blackmagic for a while. 4K and global shutter will be interesting on the Production Camera.

 

I need to clear out some of my other DSLRs. Nikon V2 don't need, got it for raw bursts! Amazing sensor technology, nice as a stills camera too (very good AF, very light, very compact, lots of other cool stuff) but now the Sony RX1 is by far my most compelling stills cam and it wasn't cheap.

 

Nikon D5200 can go too. Nice bargain but it's no longer competitive with the image on the 5D Mark III.

 

Canon don't deserve this, what a crazy situation.

Ernesto Mántaras and Julian like this

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Huge respect for this site, but I have to say 'the blogger' section in this post left something of a sour taste. Surely there's room for both cautious and enthusiastic approaches to this development. We're all different after all.  

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Does it leave a sour taste because I am being sour, or does it leave a sour taste because I criticised someone you like?

 

I suspect the latter.

 

Really, it is time for a more open and honest debate on the merits of our DSLR community leaders I think.

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Surely there's room for both cautious and enthusiastic approaches to this development. We're all different after all.  

 

Absolutely. Never implied otherwise. For some, raw isn't suitable.

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The truth hurts at times.  I trust what my eyes see.  I trust the test footage that has been uploaded by others.  The images coming out of the Mark III make me giddy with each and every shot I capture.

 

I too am selling my Epic and going to roll with the hacked Mark III and the Pocket Cinema Cam.  

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Ha, that Michael Sutton guy runs a site where the rental prices are exorbitantly high, at least in comparison to lensrentals. 150 a day for a bmcc vs 275 for 6 days  :rolleyes: 

 

makes a little more sense why hes so keen to say magic lantern will melt your camera.

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Ha, that Michael Sutton guy runs a site where the rental prices are exorbitantly high, at least in comparison to lensrentals. 150 a day for a bmcc vs 275 for 6 days  :rolleyes: 

 

makes a little more sense why hes so keen to say magic lantern will melt your camera.

 

It's funny because it's true.

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Excellent summary and update. I do share Vince's skepticism with regard to heat damage over a long period of time. Heat & Dust are the arch enemies of Digital Video and we know that 4K processing in a small container is going to result in parts decay eventually. Then again, this update is really for the installed base. I wouldn't run out and buy this camera just for 4K ( knowing that in the horse race, first out the gate, only sets the pace). No doubt, Nikon ( last out the gate) and the others are looking closely.
I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.

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Thanks Andrew for such a great article.  It felt almost way to personal. 

 

 

Had to post this, too funny not to

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAsL9hA4Hg

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I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.


Hopefully hell wont freeze over before July.

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Excellent summary and update. I do share Vince's skepticism with regard to heat damage over a long period of time. Heat & Dust are the arch enemies of Digital Video and we know that 4K processing in a small container is going to result in parts decay eventually. Then again, this update is really for the installed base. I wouldn't run out and buy this camera just for 4K ( knowing that in the horse race, first out the gate, only sets the pace). No doubt, Nikon ( last out the gate) and the others are looking closely.
I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.

 

Heat occurs when you have heavy processing intensive tasks.

 

Copying data from RAM to a relatively slow compact flash is NOT processor intensive. It just isn't. Likely the buffer isn't even stressed, because it is running at less than a 7th of it's maximum transfer rate whilst it waits for the card to finish writing.

 

4k raw and 10bit... BM Production Camera. Hell may not freeze over after all, as long as there's no dirty glass over the sensor!!

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@Zephyrnoid  Despite a statement direct from the ML developers, it seems those sponsored by Canon are successfully sowing the seeds of doubt about heat damage.  Let me say it again as clearly as I can: raw = no processing.  That is what the word means.  Raw.  Unprocessed.  Uncooked.  Not compressed.  Not sent to an image processor.  That means LESS HEAT!

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The Canon sponsored people are doing a great job of misunderstanding the technical aspects. Whether they do so on purpose or not, who knows? But it sure as hell is annoying.

 

Sensor

Live view is powered by the CMOS sensor. The camera buffer contains raw data from the sensor. The CMOS constantly reads out this data to supply a moving live view image on the LCD. Video came about on DSLRs as the camera could also compress this raw video stream and save it to a card. Since the sensor is already doing raw video during normal live view operation with the factory Canon firmware, there's no extra heat or stress penalty on the sensor for raw video with Magic Lantern.

 

Buffer

I think I read this is 512MB RAM at 700MB/s. RAM is also present in your laptop. It is constantly churching read / write cycles as you use the computer. RAM is designed to work constantly. It doesn't die through exhaustion like a mechanical part or the unfortunate Chinese worker who was tasked with making it in the first place.

 

DIGIC and card controller

Digic is designed for complex tasks like compressing the shit out of our lovely raw video stream. Now it can sit back and do something else, because with raw, there's no complex computation going on at all as TC pointed out above. The card controller is a simple off the shelf chip designed to write to the card like your $10 SD card reader. It won't blow up. It doesn't have the brains to get too hot!!

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....512gb of ram ?

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