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Jonesy Jones

URSA Mini vs Raven (Updated with Raven 4.5K)

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Agree with most of that except for the name part.

A client who knows of the name RED will very likely also know that there is Epic/Weapon and Scarlet/Raven.

As alot of early Scarlet adopters quickly found out, just owing a RED was not enough... It had to be the top end RED to get the next level of bookings. Obviously it shouldn't be like that, but that is life if you want to chase clients who might be swayed by brands and names.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I find the opposite. Those who specifically want a ''RED'' instead of anything else are usually unaware of what a camera actually is. 

Sure, there's both types of clients and depends on the area you work, and then on each specific client. But I am sure having a Red Raven is going to have much more client appeal vs an FS7/FS5/C100II/C300/URSA. It's a red body. 

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Possibly, I certainly know alot of people who hoped for that with Scarlet though. Clients weren't asking for RED, they were asking for Epic.

As you say though, that can be country/region and industry specific.

The vast majority were actually asking for Alexa or C300 though, so I wouldn't rule out the pull of Canon. In fact, I assume the Raven is a direct response to the C300 II.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

The C300 is indeed the highest demanded camera for broadcast and news and documentary, if you have one you'll get work, period, while the Reds are more requested for films/studio/music videos, that's what I find here. 

 

I predict the C300II to eat into the later market too aside from only the former. 

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The C300 is indeed the highest demanded camera for broadcast and news and documentary, if you have one you'll get work, period, while the Reds are more requested for films/studio/music videos, that's what I find here. 

 

I predict the C300II to eat into the later market too aside from only the former. 

Thanks for the great write up. 

I could imagine the C300 II being the right purchase for owner/operators who does a lot of documentary/corporate where there is demand for the camera... but for us independents putting fingers in all sorts of pies, the C300 II is hard to justify.  

On the RED Raven, that 1.87 crop on EF lenses is a major issue and a possible deal breaker. Hopefully an MFT mount later? Just tomorrow to find out more. I'm in the market so very eager for answers!

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If hire prices are decent I may use it at some point. I shan't buy it though, it's too much responsibility and the accessories cost a fortune.

a bit like a sausage dog.

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Its online ! http://www.red.com/red-raven#intro

 

Sensor8.8 Megapixel RED DRAGON®
PIXEL ARRAY4096 (h) x 2160 (v)
DYNAMIC RANGE16.5+ stops
RECORDING FRAME RATES4K (4096 x 2160) up to 120 fps 
2K (2048 x 1080) up to 240 fps
TYPICAL MAX RECORDING TIME USING RED MINI-MAG 120GB4K (4096 x 2160) and 24 fps at 11:1 REDCODE: 64 minutes 
2K (2048 x 1080) and 24 fps at 11:1 REDCODE: 254 minutes 
2K (2048 x 1080) and 24 fps with Apple ProRes 422: 110 minutes
APPLE PRORESApple ProRes 422, 422 HQ, 422 LT at up to 2K (2048 x 1080) and up to 60 fps
VIDEO EDITING SOFTWARE COMPATIBILITYAdobe® Premier® Pro, Avid® Media Composer®, DaVinci Resolve®, Edius Pro®, Final Cut Pro®, Vegas Pro®, and RED's free REDCINE-X PRO®
WEIGHT3.5 lbs (BRAIN with Media Bay and Canon Lens Mount)

DESIGNED FOR YOUR VISION.

Design a custom kit around the RED RAVEN camera or select a complete package that best meets your needs. RED’s modular design empowers you to choose the ideal setup for your shooting style.

Raven_package_names-05

Create your optimal rig—starting with the RED RAVEN camera BRAIN. Designed with modularity in mind, RED RAVEN configures easily into your shooting style.

$5,950 / DEPOSIT $500

Shop Now

Raven_package_names-07

The RED RAVEN JETPACK Package unlocks all-new creative possibilities. Designed for use with handheld gimbals, drones, jibs, and cranes—you can take your shooting to new heights.

$9,750 / DEPOSIT $1000

Shop Now

Raven_package_names-06

Versatile enough for documentaries, online, and television—the RED RAVEN Base I/O Package gives you everything you need to take your vision to the next level of image quality.

$9,950 / DEPOSIT $1000

Shop Now

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I'm very torn on it.... I came pretty close to pre-ordering, but will wait for the dust to settle.

There are ALOT of plus points (2K/60p ProRes is a great addition), but two pretty major negatives too:

The fixed Canon mount is just a strange, strange choice, especially with a smaller sensor. I really don't get that decision at all.

The 13:1 compression at 4K/120fps is gonna see the image fall apart a bit.

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I'm very torn on it.... I came pretty close to pre-ordering, but will wait for the dust to settle.

There are ALOT of plus points (2K/60p ProRes is a great addition), but two pretty major negatives too:

The fixed Canon mount is just a strange, strange choice, especially with a smaller sensor. I really don't get that decision at all.

The 13:1 compression at 4K/120fps is gonna see the image fall apart a bit.

Agreed - its a weird crop for a 10k "cinema" camera :/ 

Can't wait to see how it compares to the Ursa mini... this is going to be very interesting. 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

It's most likely the same quote ''16 stops DR of the dragon'' or less, so FS5/FS7/Ursa of 13-14 stops. 

I don't see any mention of a 1.9x sensor. Only saying the dragon sensor.

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Yeah, it's the accessories that are the killer.  $6000 gets your attention as perhaps being attainable, but then its an extra $4000 for a 120gb ssd, a touch screen and a handle.  They are taking the piss!   This is the first time I've ever paid red any real attention. Do you have to use their ssd? or could you just get the 'brain' and provide everything else yourself?

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Yeah, it's the accessories that are the killer.  $6000 gets your attention as perhaps being attainable, but then its an extra $4000 for a 120gb ssd, a touch screen and a handle.  They are taking the piss!   This is the first time I've ever paid red any real attention. Do you have to use their ssd? or could you just get the 'brain' and provide everything else yourself?

You have to get their SSD, back in Red ONE days if you use non-red cf card you are restricted to 2K and up to 60fps, no 4K instead of 120fps in 2k and 4k.

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You have to use their SSDs. I might be wrong, but I think you also need to have a module for HDMI, so although you can use 3rd party monitors, you will need the module.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Yeah, it's the accessories that are the killer.  $6000 gets your attention as perhaps being attainable, but then its an extra $4000 for a 120gb ssd, a touch screen and a handle.  They are taking the piss!   This is the first time I've ever paid red any real attention. Do you have to use their ssd? or could you just get the 'brain' and provide everything else yourself?

You can't. The Raven is a 10.000$ now on preorder and 11.500$ later. 

So chip size is 20.48mm x 10.8mm

Can anyone measure the exact crop factor/difference vs 135mm format? 10mm seems quite severe vertically, M43 is 10mm while super35 is 14-16mm. 

Red is actually saying (Approximately equivalent to Academy 35mm formats)

A reminder the standard super 35mm is 24.89 mm × 18.66 mm. Strange how such a large deviation could still be claimed as s35 these days. 

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To be fair, it was 4K4All

It was a daft hashtag though, $10k is not "for all" ... Not sure if they ever explained themselves on that one... Maybe "for all terrain" or some nonsense.

The way I see it, with RED..... Take the specs with a pinch of salt... Don't get too carried away with the marketing or the crazy forum... Turn your eyes away from the military designs... You are then just left with a great camera.

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