LUMIX L10 - announced

[kye]

Well, they just launched the Canon R6V, so I hope Panasonic enjoyed their 20 hours of PR!

[kye]

28 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Turns out I didn’t dream it.

https://www.shutterdial.com
 

However, what I did dream )or maybe they’ve removed the function) was that you could search by specific camera on addition to the focal length/aperture.

I searched for "LX100" instead of "Landscape" and it seemed to work, with most shots meeting the criteria...

[Sebastien]

Any chance they're putting this out with a lens mount (and a little more affordable)?

[kye]

18 minutes ago, Sebastien said:

Any chance they're putting this out with a lens mount (and a little more affordable)?

I'm optimistic about it, but there are no guarantees.  Also, if it has an MFT mount it might be more expensive rather than cheaper, you never know.

[Sebastien]

2 minutes ago, kye said:

Also, if it has an MFT mount it might be more expensive rather than cheaper, you never know.

It won't feature Ibis, probably, if they are about to keep the size. I could live with that. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Turns out I didn’t dream it.

https://www.shutterdial.com
 

However, what I did dream )or maybe they’ve removed the function) was that you could search by specific camera on addition to the focal length/aperture.

Yeah, some pretty nice looking images from that lens.  Realistically, on a consumer camera without RAW or Prores, the codecs are potentially going to be the limiting factor more often than the lens.  I'm easy to please though, as my aesthetic leans towards the analog and emotive rather than the person building a personal database of all image sharpening techniques ever created.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, kye said:

Well, they just launched the Canon R6V, so I hope Panasonic enjoyed their 20 hours of PR!

Another stroke of Lumix’s marketing genius.

They were hoping for a full 24 hours of limelight, but the intern responsible for product launches only had 10 fingers and 10 toes to count with.

 

[kye]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Another stroke of Lumix’s marketing genius.

They were hoping for a full 24 hours of limelight, but the intern responsible for product launches only had 10 fingers and 10 toes to count with.

Well, that intern got Panasonic 20 hours of clear air, but the intern from Canon that chose when to announce the R6V only managed to get about an hour before Sony released the A7R VI, so I guess everything is relative!

Still, they're all for different audiences and at different price points etc.  A $1500 P&S vs a $2500 FF camera vs a $4500 67MP beast.  I doubt many people went "oh no, I preordered the L10 but the Sony has higher resolution - pre-order cancelled!" 

[eatstoomuchjam]

I now think that calling it the L10 was also a mistake.  I watched the Micro Four Nerds video about it earlier anud the camera looked very big in the presenter's hands.  I looked it up the Panasonic L10 on cameradecision and compared it to some other cameras and was outraged by how much bigger it was than the LX100.  Then I noticed something about 10 megapixels and realized that the Panasonic L10 was a 10 megapixel Micro 4/3 camera from 2007.  The Panasonic Lumix L10, on the other hand, is quite small.

Was L10 such a great name that they couldn't change it after somebody pointed out that they already had a camera called the L10 and there would be some confusion from people who looked it up?

[MrSMW]

Same intern that is currently doing their marketing is also in charge of product naming.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, kye said:  I doubt many people went "oh no, I preordered the L10 but the Sony has higher resolution - pre-order cancelled!" 

I suspect there is at least one person out there who is currently debating which one of yesterday’s 3 cameras to get or a fancy tropical fish tank.

[kye]

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I now think that calling it the L10 was also a mistake.  I watched the Micro Four Nerds video about it earlier anud the camera looked very big in the presenter's hands.  I looked it up the Panasonic L10 on cameradecision and compared it to some other cameras and was outraged by how much bigger it was than the LX100.  Then I noticed something about 10 megapixels and realized that the Panasonic L10 was a 10 megapixel Micro 4/3 camera from 2007.  The Panasonic Lumix L10, on the other hand, is quite small.

Was L10 such a great name that they couldn't change it after somebody pointed out that they already had a camera called the L10 and there would be some confusion from people who looked it up?

Perhaps the biggest mistake was inviting a bunch of influencers with tiny hands to come to Japan and make it look enormous by comparison.

They could have just had someone the size of Shaq in the lobby holding one and posing and every video would have started with a very different tone!

3 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I suspect there is at least one person out there who is currently debating which one of yesterday’s 3 cameras to get or a fancy tropical fish tank.

Sounds pretty normal to me, but my household has a rather eclectic purchase history, so I might be an outlier!

[Yannick Willox]

They should have called it the L1. Now THAT was a nice camera, iI still have it with the 14-50 mm lens. It still works, all 7 megapixels, and the batteries too !

At least it was fourthirds, so using the same name for a microfourthirds cam would be less confusing ?

I must admit, this new L10 looks like a really nice camera. It is too expensive though.

[Andrew - EOSHD]

[Andrew - EOSHD]

With the lens not covering the full sensor and battery is the absolute unit from the GH7, I think Panasonic are missing a trick here

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8679910436/panasonic-lumix-dc-l10-four-thirds-enthusiast-compact

They should make a version with a prime lens, a slim pancake on the front and reduce the body size a bit towards the Ricoh Gr series, then it would open up a world of sales Panasonic's marketing team never knew existed.

Have they ever heard of the Fuji X100 VI!?

They have all the capabilities to make a killer competitor to that too.

[ac6000cw]

As an LX100 successor, I think Panasonic have got it about right and it'll sell well.

It's larger and about 100g heavier than the LX100, as it's using the basic S9 bodyshell - the width and height are basically identical, as are the positions of many of the controls and the battery is the same. Probably a fair exchange for a better sensor, a considerable upgrade to the video specs and better battery life (the LX100 battery life when recording video was poor - I used to own one).

But at the moment, the S9 + 18-40 kit lens is cheaper, has IBIS and is not that much larger and heavier - is that a better deal for a primarily video user?

As it doesn't have IBIS, I don't think I'll be buying an L10, but a (GX10?) M43 version of it with IBIS, paired with the 14-140 zoom would make a superb travel cam (and a nice compact wildlife camera paired with the 100-300).

So an S9 mk2 (S10?) with EVF or a GX10 next from Panasonic? (I think an S9 mk2 is more likely - a GX10 would undermine sales of the L10 too much, I think).

[John Matthews]

This looks like a really cool set-up.

One thing I would definitely be worried about is the lens though design. Optically, from everything I've seen it looks great, but it has been well-known to have issues with dust getting trapped inside and that was the reason I never really went after the LX100(I or II). However, it's the same problem with almost all POS cameras.

Did Lumix say anything about this?

[kye]

12 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

It's larger and about 100g heavier than the LX100, as it's using the basic S9 bodyshell - the width and height are basically identical, as are the positions of many of the controls and the battery is the same. Probably a fair exchange for a better sensor, a considerable upgrade to the video specs and better battery life (the LX100 battery life when recording video was poor - I used to own one).

But at the moment, the S9 + 18-40 kit lens is cheaper, has IBIS and is not that much larger and heavier - is that a better deal for a primarily video user?

Size is a funny thing as there are two different comparisons to be made - one is with it switched off (and lens retracted) and the other with it on and lens extended.

I've noticed that people often only care about one of these and don't give a hoot about the other.  The EDC crowd only care if it's pocketable (while off and lens retracted) so they can take it everywhere and others (like me) only really care about it when it's being used.  

From the perspective of what it's like when it's on and extended, especially if you use the sci-fi looking triangle door lens cap thing which will attract all kinds of "WTF is that thing?" attention:

It never ceases to amaze me how different we all are from each other, even when literally talking about the same piece of equipment!

[kye]

12 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

It's larger and about 100g heavier than the LX100, as it's using the basic S9 bodyshell - the width and height are basically identical, as are the positions of many of the controls and the battery is the same. Probably a fair exchange for a better sensor, a considerable upgrade to the video specs and better battery life (the LX100 battery life when recording video was poor - I used to own one).

But at the moment, the S9 + 18-40 kit lens is cheaper, has IBIS and is not that much larger and heavier - is that a better deal for a primarily video user?

As it doesn't have IBIS, I don't think I'll be buying an L10, but a (GX10?) M43 version of it with IBIS, paired with the 14-140 zoom would make a superb travel cam (and a nice compact wildlife camera paired with the 100-300).

So an S9 mk2 (S10?) with EVF or a GX10 next from Panasonic? (I think an S9 mk2 is more likely - a GX10 would undermine sales of the L10 too much, I think).

I missed your point about it being in the S9 chassis, but that makes total sense and gives a lot of hope for a GX10, as if they can fit a FF IBIS sensor assembly in there they should be able to fit a MFT IBIS sensor assembly in there too.

If they announced one of those I'd be very tempted to pre-order one.  I'm super happy with the images from my GH7 but the size is cumbersome for a lot of things, and my GX85 still softly calls to me because of the form-factor.  Once you add a large lens to it the difference becomes less significant of course, but there are lots of small lenses.

This is the GX85 vs the GH7 (they haven't put the L10 in yet) but it shows my general point:

Looking at the size this way really does show the genius of the LX100 and L10.  

This is the LX100 vs the GX85, but the GX85 has the 12-35mm F2.8 lens, which not only is MUCH larger than the LX100 (open and closed), but the lens is 1.5 stops SLOWER at the wide end than the one in the LX100 and L10!!

In order to get an MFT camera to match / surpass the LX100 / L10 lens, you need to go to the 10-25mm F1.7 lens, which isn't a fair test as it's wider and constant F1.7, but the size difference is....  stunning.

The more I think about it, the more I realise the F1.7-2.8 lens and GH7 sensor combo really an 80% combo, where with its speed and aperture and the GH7s ISO performance, for general travel / family / hobby / creator / vlogging / etc stuff you'll only really miss the odd situation here or there where you'd wish for something more.
This is absolutely in contrast to the other little cameras I've looked at (the Sony ZV-1 comes to mind) where as soon as you go inside or after the sun sets the image turns to mush with the poor ISO performance, plus the DR of the GH7 sensor will seriously embarrass lots of the alternative options too.  This is because most of them are just old, but that seems to be the state of the market for these smallest options.

I'm not really sure what the current alternatives are for the L10, but happy to hear if someone wants to make a list...