Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Interesting Canon interview with Masaya Maedya on C500 future, XC10, mirrorless 4K, future DSLR Log option,

Recommended Posts

At least the last line of the interview confirms what many forums where discussing a few months ago:

the XC10 is positioned for ENG that requiere 4K. Interesting that Canon saw that opportunity with a dedicated hybrid camera.

Maybe they're using us journos as a massive focus group before they make the big leap to mom and dad 4K in the Rebel line or similar?

We normally treat our gear with no respect at all. It gets flung, hit, bashed and cursed practically everyday when out in the cut-through media field.

If it breaks whilst on the job, I expect my employer to provide another copy of the exact same equipment.

Install a strong user-base there and you're home free with less demanding consumers (mom and pop) that will receive "good enough" picture quality.

Just my 2c. 

       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

 

Huge thanks to Ebrahim Saadawi on the EOSHD forum for bringing it to our attention.

Thanks! 

The full text of the interview can be read here, unfortunately I currently have no idea of the source publication (will link to it here when I find out)


Here you go http://www.hdvideopro.com/gear/cameras/cinema-eos-v2-0/page-2

It's in page 2, deep bottom in an old-ish article, on a not so popular blog, under a name not indicative of the interview. So hard to find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Canon simply do not have the technical know-how to create DSLRs that are 4k. Interesting to see them admit this.

I think the problem isn't that they lack the knowhow, but rather that they lack processors of sufficient sophistication to handle the workload. IMO this is the root of most if not all of Canon's perceived sluggishness in adopting the future. The big problem they have is that they lack the capability to develop such processors at the same rate their main competitors in the MILC arena can, so they are always on the back foot when it comes to things like video (unless they use the sledgehammer approach, but that is expensive).

I'm no huge Canon fan. I used to be. Bought the t3i when it was new and loved it. Good times.

But I must say that Canon has always given me the Apple vibe. On paper it looks expensive and without the latest and greatest features. But when using it you sort of get it. The features and hardware it does have work, and work very very well.

A camera I've always been intrigued by but never owned is tha XA20. The little sister of the XF100 but with a longer zoom and slowmo. I thought, "it seems nice but man, that price".

First time I played with it, Ahh now I get it, and want it more than ever.

Same with the C100.

And now the xc10. The dvx200 and xc10 I think will be the two most underrated cameras this year.

Slow lenses, weird features, high prices aside. When Canon does something they might not do it right but they do it well. And Panasonic, they do lots of things but when they finally make a successor to a legend, it will be sweet. 

To me the XC10 thread here and on other places is a pretty good example. Nothing but hate. Everything was wrong, everything. And then it stopped. 

Because the footage looks great and the actual user experiences are positive. 

Any who, don't exactly know the point of this post since I'm a little bit drunk from drinking beer while waiting on Indian food, but those where my thoughts.  

No, the XC10 footage looks like garbage. It isn't 4K, it is more like 2.4K. People aren't talking about it because they have given up and moved on if they are interested in shooting real 4K.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes I wish there was a "dislike" button.

 

Sometimes I wish there was a canon camera that does 4k video on a small body or a decent 1080p that doesn't require me to buy a used one in order to afford it; sometimes we just don't get what we wish for....

Who cares?  We have other manufacturers fulling our needs now.  Burn baby burn!!  If you are related to canon, are a canon rep, canon ambassador, or somehow have a vested interested in canon, etc.; sorry, but you picked the wrong horse.  Time has moved on. Lamenting on how canon can improve is like lamenting on how kodak can increase sales of rolls of iso 400 film.  Few people want them (except for those strange people who still take pictures using film because it's "magical" or has a certain "color style", etc...the same type of people who still buy  vinyl records because vinyl is "superior" to digital).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the GH4 has a quarter sensor size of a 5D, less than quarter when shooting 4K. 

The RX10II, RX100IV, AX100, X70, XC10, FZ1000, LX100 are all a tiny fraction of the sensor size on the 5D.

It just may be the technology hasn't been ready for a small 4K FF camera, in fact nobody does it, (1DC comes closest) and even Sony, still to this day can't do it on the A7s due to heat issues.

So not having internal FF 4K is justifiable (well nobody else does it, as of 2011 to now) but not having good FF 1080p isn't justifiable however (Others do it, well the A7s and D810)

We all know Canon is not going to give the rebel s35 line internal 4K before the FF 5D, so I guess that could very well be the reason for the long delay, is that they are pretty obligated to give it to the 5D before lower end models. 

They better hurry up however as an A7rII with 4K FF is coming soon and that one will make it unjustifiable not have a 4K 5D IV in the same era. 

It has nothing to do with the sensor size, something like the A7s does full sensor reads when shooting video. The heat issues come from the processor demands combined with the form factor for the camera. The A7s can shoot 4K quite comfortably, what it can't do is process that internally and stay cool, so you need to record it externally. Newer Sony processors are more power efficient, so they generate less heat, and that allows internal recording. If the A7s had a body style like a DSLR it probably would have had enough heat sink capability to record internally.

I really doubt they have heat issues.

I think is more of a profit problem, they need the cheapest approach possible to obtain 4k in a smaller body.

Processing power already exists to downscale high megapixels to 4k, high quality and small processors at 20nm or 14nm can be done and they don't overheat, but hey, they cost, canon wants dirt cheap components.

If a mobile phone can do 4k, gh4, samsung nx1, go pro 3, phantom 3 camera, it's kind of obvious Canon wants a 4k camera that costs as little as possible  to make and get sold at absurd Canon premium price.

Man, if it weren't for the lenses, they keep milking the poor people traped in the canon system lenses.

 

Those other products are using IP that Canon doesn't have access to, and since the IP holders are competitors, they are not going to license it either. So Canon has to use old technology instead, and that old tech is not up to scratch when it come to video in general and 4K in particular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, the XC10 footage looks like garbage. It isn't 4K, it is more like 2.4K. People aren't talking about it because they have given up and moved on if they are interested in shooting real 4K.

Now you're just making stuff up again. I didn't say people stopped talking, I said the hate stop. Instead people started commenting on how good it looked. 

And honestly you nor I have the mandate or power to proclaim any camera produces garbage. You have to learn people are different and like different things. Otherwise your eventually gonna have a heart attack.  

There is no "right" or "correct" look.

Let's take our two youtube channels as example. You most likely wouldn't like the footage I produce. I think what you made with the NX1 would make me very disappointed if it came out of my camera.

But guess what, lots of people like the look you got, and many liked mine.

That in itself is absolute 100% proof that you or I can't say camera x footage is garbage. If we did, it means we are insane.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C = Costly (Canon products are not cheap.)

A = Absent Innovation (The 5D Mark II was innovative. It went downhill from there.)

N = Napping (Canon has been caught napping...zzz...)

O = Outdated (They recently have incorporated 1080p 60fps into their DSLR's. Only a few years late.)

N = Nonadaptive (They are too proud to adapt new innovations into their own brand. In-camera stabilization, Sony sensor technology, focus peaking, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good thing when big companies like Canon become more open and honest to their customers for once. Really appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

It has nothing to do with the sensor size, 

Of course it does. recording 4K from 36mm by 24mm sensor, and compress it internally, record it to a memory card, generates a lot of heat, a lot, and a lot of power draw.

Confirmed by Canon having to add a large heat sink behind the sensor block even on the 1D huge body in order to record 4K. 

Confirmed by the Sony a7s not being able to record 4K, and this is in 2015, now. 

No other manufacturer right now, at this moment in 2015 sells a camera that records 4K from a FF sensor in a smaller than DSLR body. It's clearly a challenge to ALL manufacturers. 

Sony, the groundbreaking high tech company, still haven't created a 4K FF, and is doing it in the last end of 2015, which is the same time a 5D MKIV is probably due. 

This is not an excuse to Canon not bringing high video quality, this just ''explains'' marketing-wise why Canon hasn't gone 4K, it's because they will not doing for their smaller sensor-size before the 5D, and giving high quality 4K on a FF sensor without aliasing/moire and a good codec in a small body is something I believe was not in their capability in the past years based on the statements of all companies on why they do not do it, heat and power. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the problem isn't that they lack the knowhow, but rather that they lack processors of sufficient sophistication to handle the workload. IMO this is the root of most if not all of Canon's perceived sluggishness in adopting the future. The big problem they have is that they lack the capability to develop such processors at the same rate their main competitors in the MILC arena can, so they are always on the back foot when it comes to things like video (unless they use the sledgehammer approach, but that is expensive).

The 1dc is three years old and it can handle the workload, along with being one of the 2 or 3 best sports cameras ever produced. They could have put that same tech in a 5dc if they wanted. The new C300mkII does 4k with dual pixel AF. They clearly have the ability. They've chosen to keep it upmarket, catering to pros shooting commericals, TV news, reality TV, rental houses and so on - which by all accounts the Cinema line has been a huge success filling a price point Red was never able to meet.

I've said it before, top video specs clearly aren't driving the market. People on this forum are still a small niche in the overall market. Most of the people buying cameras are casual shooters looking for a "good" camera to shoot kids birthdays and school plays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

wow that's some hardcore hate mail and accusations of fraud I've been receiving since I am the ''apparent' source on EOSHD and Rumor websites,

I don't appreciate hate mail, and never will I engage in replies. Let's just make it clear that:

I am not the source. The source is this Here you go http://www.hdvideopro.com/gear/cameras/cinema-eos-v2-0/page-2

Direct your hate mail to that please. 

Never knew people felt this aggressively about 4K and Log. It's a resolution and a gamma curve, lighten up people!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow that's some hardcore hate mail and accusations of fraud I've been receiving since I am the ''apparent' source on EOSHD and Rumor websites,

I don't appreciate hate mail, and never will I engage in replies. Let's just make it clear that:

I am not the source. The source is this Here you go http://www.hdvideopro.com/gear/cameras/cinema-eos-v2-0/page-2

Direct your hate mail to that please. 

Never knew people felt this aggressively about 4K and Log. It's a resolution and a gamma curve, lighten up people!

Are you serious? Wow that's unbelievable. What are they saying to you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course it does. recording 4K from 36mm by 24mm sensor, and compress it internally, record it to a memory card, generates a lot of heat, a lot, and a lot of power draw.

Confirmed by Canon having to add a large heat sink behind the sensor block even on the 1D huge body in order to record 4K. 

Confirmed by the Sony a7s not being able to record 4K, and this is in 2015, now. 

No other manufacturer right now, at this moment in 2015 sells a camera that records 4K from a FF sensor in a smaller than DSLR body. It's clearly a challenge to ALL manufacturers. 

Sony, the groundbreaking high tech company, still haven't created a 4K FF, and is doing it in the last end of 2015, which is the same time a 5D MKIV is probably due. 

This is not an excuse to Canon not bringing high video quality, this just ''explains'' marketing-wise why Canon hasn't gone 4K, it's because they will not doing for their smaller sensor-size before the 5D, and giving high quality 4K on a FF sensor without aliasing/moire and a good codec in a small body is something I believe was not in their capability in the past years based on the statements of all companies on why they do not do it, heat and power. 

Except that the A7s DOES record 4K, just not to internal storage, since processing is required for that. It isn't the sensor that is generating the heat, it is the processor.

It obviously has nothing to do with the sensor. If the sensor was generating the heat then the camera would not be able to record 4K period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Are you serious? Wow that's unbelievable. What are they saying to you?

Nothing that can be copied here! But put in a nice way:
-I am a fraud 
-I am pathetic lowlife writing this whole interview,
-I work for Canon and this is Canon's way of giving customer promise in the future, through my rumors,
-that I hallucinated the entire thing,
-that I disrespected Masaya Maedya with the wine joke,
-that I am a ''lying scumbag'',

Those are 7 out of the total 36 e-mails, the nicest 7, that make most sense, others are not written in understandable language just name-calling that I can't copy here as young children/women read this public forum and it's disrespectful. It's both funny but also really offending me. I will not reply however. 

Except that the A7s DOES record 4K, just not to internal storage, 

Yes It doesn't record FF 4K internally.

Neither does any other camera as of this moment.

That's the point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1dc is three years old and it can handle the workload, along with being one of the 2 or 3 best sports cameras ever produced. They could have put that same tech in a 5dc if they wanted. The new C300mkII does 4k with dual pixel AF. They clearly have the ability. They've chosen to keep it upmarket, catering to pros shooting commericals, TV news, reality TV, rental houses and so on - which by all accounts the Cinema line has been a huge success filling a price point Red was never able to meet.

I've said it before, top video specs clearly aren't driving the market. People on this forum are still a small niche in the overall market. Most of the people buying cameras are casual shooters looking for a "good" camera to shoot kids birthdays and school plays.

Those cameras have a whole lot of extra logic built in though in the form for multiple processors. They are also very large bodies that can act as heat sinks for the power used to drive the processors. What Canon can't do readily is produce 4K in a reasonably sized camera with a single processor. The XC10 uses one processor, but it is really shooting 2.5K resolution material. The processor is probably not fast enough to deal with an oversampled sensor that would required for full 4K resolution. Therein lies the problem for Canon.

The rest of the 4K players are achieving their results with a single processor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really, most people I know record the entire party. They move throughout the party and hide behind the camera, people wave to the camera and wish the kid happy birthday. They record the entire gift process, the birthday cake, of course you need it on record that the guests are eating the food you shelled out money for or the wife made.

In the US I've never seen anyone record more than a few seconds here and there with a cell phone.  Where I am people laugh at the thought of camcorders the way they laugh at 8 track cassettes.  And I've never seen anyone do hybrid video at a birthday party.  Anyway I stated my preference for myself.  Really one birthday party can be easily summed up in a five minute video.  I don't need to shoot 2+ hrs of tape to come up with five minutes.  And I don't need to bore people with a 2 hr snooze fest.  But that is my preference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that the A7s DOES record 4K, just not to internal storage, since processing is required for that. It isn't the sensor that is generating the heat, it is the processor.

It obviously has nothing to do with the sensor. If the sensor was generating the heat then the camera would not be able to record 4K period.

There is also a A7rii. 

But sensors do generate heat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1dc is three years old and it can handle the workload, along with being one of the 2 or 3 best sports cameras ever produced. They could have put that same tech in a 5dc if they wanted. The new C300mkII does 4k with dual pixel AF. They clearly have the ability. They've chosen to keep it upmarket, catering to pros shooting commericals, TV news, reality TV, rental houses and so on - which by all accounts the Cinema line has been a huge success filling a price point Red was never able to meet.

I've said it before, top video specs clearly aren't driving the market. People on this forum are still a small niche in the overall market. Most of the people buying cameras are casual shooters looking for a "good" camera to shoot kids birthdays and school plays.

 

Clearly Canon wants to be the next Red.  One thing they forgot to notice is that red is a niche company.  There are only so many hollywood movies out there.. There are just so many hollywood production studios requiring "Red" and "Red-like" camera's.  Canon maybe beating Red at that "price point", but they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.  For a consumer electronics company that relies on income from consumers, catering to high end professionals at the expensive of their consumers is stupid.  The revenue generated by high end professionals just isn't there.  Red Digital Cinema Camera Company can only exists because they do not have the employees or the expenses that canon has.  If canon continues, they will also be a niche player which means they will need to have the corporate structure of a niche company.  I.e., they will need to lay people off.  Niche companies do not have a high head count.  How many employees does RED have?  How many does Canon?  16% drop in revenue and falling..

Sony is catering to the consumer and the company is improving financially...  Their prosumer A7s competes directly with their more "professional" camera's.  Sony is a big company and they know they can ill afford to ignore the prosumer market.  Consumer electronics company like sony can not survive by marketing and selling only towards "professionals". They basically have to put the consumer first and the professional second.  Canon for some reason does not understand this.  I'll wait for Canon's next quarter's earnings report :-) hahahahahahah... It going to be bad.  I wonder when "bad" officially turns into "catastrophic", i.e., "bloodbath".. I feel the time is getting close...  and it couldn't happen to a more arrogant company...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The XC10 uses one processor, but it is really shooting 2.5K resolution material.

Haha, where are you from?

XC10 looks pretty soft when shot flat but it has tons of resolution. Actual detail, not sharpening artifacts. Do you go to Reduser.net and complain the the Epic doesn't look 5k because it's soft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the US I've never seen anyone record more than a few seconds here and there with a cell phone.  Where I am people laugh at the thought of camcorders the way they laugh at 8 track cassettes.  And I've never seen anyone do hybrid video at a birthday party.  Anyway I stated my preference for myself.  Really one birthday party can be easily summed up in a five minute video.  I don't need to shoot 2+ hrs of tape to come up with five minutes.  And I don't need to bore people with a 2 hr snooze fest.  But that is my preference.

hey, I don't disagree with you. I'm just relaying my experience, and I'm in the U.S. too, in the northeast. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...