Canon USA drops new teaser (FX30 competitor?)

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

Why do you think an R5ii would be more at risk, when they cater for completely different market. The R5ii gives you a premium photo camera experience, while this one would be more for videographers that might occasionally shoot some photos. 

The new camera is coming out at a similar price point to the R5 II and I know several people who bought R5 series cameras primarily for video work.  I'd be glad to be wrong about this one, of course.

And as Django pointed out, they might go e-shutter only which would be likely to turn off a lot of photographers.  Of course, if RS is <10ms, that might un-turn off some of them.

Speaking for myself, the biggest question is whether it would have DGO.  I would take 33 megapixels with 2 extra stops thanks to DGO over 45 megapixels.

OLPF might also be a thing that would push it more to the strictly video side of things, but if it had one and between DGO and OLPF, it had an image like the C70, but in a smaller body with better low-light performance and more reliable AF, it might be in the rare category of cameras that I'd be excited enough to buy new as opposed to waiting 6-12 months for them to get a 10% price drop on the used market...

[Ty Harper]

I'd agree with @eatstoomuchjam as this seems to be marketed as a hybrid cinema/photo cam so totally catering to the R5 MKIIs video/photo demo. As someone who has owned an R5 and currently has two R5Cs - personally, I was hoping the C50 would be the best of both pro cinema video and pro photo worlds with a footprint smaller than the R5Cs (closer to the R50V) - bcuz then it could also become my everyday walk around cam. But if it isn't I'd prob just bite the bullet and pick up a used R50V which are finally starting to show up on FB marketplace and kijiji.

[Django]

How is this marketed as a hybrid when its C line and the teaser today show it on sticks with a top handle on a film set? For all we know this won't even do stills like all the other Cxx/Cxxx. That would be ultimate cripple hammer lol.

This is clearly an FX3 competitor and the FX3 isn't much of a hybrid. It can take stills but it's cumbersome compared to the A7Siii. The absence of an EVF and possibly mech shutter will damper most serious photogs. Another thing to consider is the absence of IBIS, that would be a big mistake imo but Canon took it off the R5C and no C line camera has it. 

Also just saw the teaser on Instagram, it adds "Open your World" another hint towards open gate!

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

14 minutes ago, Django said:

How is this marketed as a hybrid when its C line and the teaser today show it on sticks with a top handle on a film set? For all we know this won't even do stills like all the other Cxx/Cxxx. That would be ultimate cripple hammer lol.

This is clearly an FX3 competitor and the FX3 isn't much of a hybrid. It can take stills but it's cumbersome compared to the A7Siii.

Sure, but if it's not at all hybrid, it's kind of a weird decision to put in a 7K sensor and downsample from it vs just using a native 6K sensor.  It's not to say that they wouldn't, just that it'd be a little weird.

Similarly, the A7SIII/FX3 are both 12 megapixel stills cameras.  While you can find some stills photographers who don't mind 24, a lot more who are OK with 33, and the vast majority are OK with 45.  You're really not going to find many who will accept 12.

[Django]

8 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Sure, but if it's not at all hybrid, it's kind of a weird decision to put in a 7K sensor and downsample from it vs just using a native 6K sensor.  It's not to say that they wouldn't, just that it'd be a little weird.

Similarly, the A7SIII/FX3 are both 12 megapixel stills cameras.  While you can find some stills photographers who don't mind 24, a lot more who are OK with 33, and the vast majority are OK with 45.  You're really not going to find many who will accept 12.

Don't forget the A7SIII/FX3 is actually a 48MP quad-bayer sensor binned to 12MP for increased low light and low rolling shutter. Canon could be up to a similar trick here.

[Ty Harper]

37 minutes ago, Django said:

How is this marketed as a hybrid when its C line and the teaser today show it on sticks with a top handle on a film set? For all we know this won't even do stills like all the other Cxx/Cxxx. That would be ultimate cripple hammer lol.

Well bcuz it would join the R5C as being the only two cams in Canon's cinema line to offer video and photo features - which is basically what a cam needs to offer to be considered hybrid, no? But also, as someone who has two R5Cs I wouldn't be interested in it if it didn't offer video/photo capabilities. 

[Django]

2 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Well bcuz it would join the R5C as being the only two cams in Canon's cinema line to offer video and photo features - which is basically what a cam needs to offer to be considered hybrid, no? But also, as someone who has two R5Cs I wouldn't be interested in it if it didn't offer video/photo capabilities. 

R5C as its name and form factor suggest is a true hybrid. Not sure C50 is. Could be wrong of course but I have a feeling the stills side is going to be very limited, not to cannibalise R line.. or they could go the FX2 route which definitely cannibalises A7IV. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Django said:

Don't forget the A7SIII/FX3 is actually a 48MP quad-bayer sensor binned to 12MP for increased low light and low rolling shutter. Canon could be up to a similar trick here.

Anything is possible, of course, and I have absolutely no insight beyond rumors, but it still seems a little weird to me.  It should be a lot less computationally expensive to handle QB readout (I think this might even be done by circuitry in the sensor itself) than to take a 7K image and downsample it to 6K at high quality.  Seems like it'd be a pretty big hit on battery life and heat.  Good thing it's rumored to have a fan!

Although wasn't there recently a camera that came out and still overheated, even though it had a fan?  Maybe Canon's management saw that and got upset that somebody invented a hammer that they never even imagined and they instantly put their best people on it.  😉

[ntblowz]

I wonder will the optional EVF work on the R50V too?

[Ty Harper]

2 hours ago, Django said:

R5C as its name and form factor suggest is a true hybrid. Not sure C50 is. Could be wrong of course but I have a feeling the stills side is going to be very limited, not to cannibalise R line.. or they could go the FX2 route which definitely cannibalises A7IV. 

Yeah I can see that but for me - a shooter with two R5Cs - I don't need it to be robust on the photo side, just the basics, like an R50V. Either way, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the R50V is all I really need right now, but open gate would be kinda nice to have still!

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Although wasn't there recently a camera that came out and still overheated, even though it had a fan?

Lumix S1RII and it’s identical twin, S1II glare sullenly in your direction.

IMO, if it’s ‘cinema’ camera, it either can’t shoot stills at all, or it’s at least a bit crap in that department whereas if it’s ‘hybrid’, it should be able to do both equally as well.

Perhaps not video as well as a dedicated cinema camera and perhaps not stills as well as a dedicated camera, but at least both comparable to each other.

By its C designation, I would not expect this new Canon to be that great for stills so most likely, will be that smaller more dedicated cinema camera. But where will the hammer strike?

I came close to building a hybrid system around R3’s which despite their size are surprisingly light and I think are a really great balance for stills and video.

The only thing that put me off was the price and last year these were still commanding 5-6k on the used market but can now be had for around 3k so if I was looking today, they would be very strong contenders. Good stills, great video spec.

 

[Django]

9 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Anything is possible, of course, and I have absolutely no insight beyond rumors, but it still seems a little weird to me.  It should be a lot less computationally expensive to handle QB readout (I think this might even be done by circuitry in the sensor itself) than to take a 7K image and downsample it to 6K at high quality.  Seems like it'd be a pretty big hit on battery life and heat.  Good thing it's rumored to have a fan!

Although wasn't there recently a camera that came out and still overheated, even though it had a fan?  Maybe Canon's management saw that and got upset that somebody invented a hammer that they never even imagined and they instantly put their best people on it.  😉

Downsampling 7K to 6K isn’t crazy just a bit more pixels than 6K itself, easily handled by a modern DIGIC processor plus cooling. The FX2 does 7K to 4K downsampling in similar form factor and has like 13 hours of recording time. Canon doesn’t mess around with their cinema line; that’s the whole point of going that route vs their hybrid cameras. I doubt heat management will be an issue. Battery life wise I'd assume it uses the new R5ii batteries that pretty much remedied the R5C battery life issues.

[ND64]

Now they say there is no IBIS. 

[Simon Young]

10 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Now they say there is no IBIS. 

Thank god for that. I presume Canon will put a decent OLPF in it like they normally do, so my biggest concern now is read out speed.

[ND64]

36 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

Thank god for that

There is no drawback to have IBIS and not using it. 

[ntblowz]

39 minutes ago, ND64 said:

There is no drawback to have IBIS and not using it. 

There is, car wobble, and thermal won't be as good as sensor sticking directly to thermal plate.

[ND64]

20 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

There is, car wobble, and thermal won't be as good as sensor sticking directly to thermal plate.

Car wobble can be prevented by IBIS lock. Most of the heat comes from CPU and CFe cards, not sensor. 

[ArashM]

3 hours ago, ND64 said:

Now they say there is no IBIS. 

sigh!!!!

[Ty Harper]

3 hours ago, ND64 said:

Now they say there is no IBIS. 

Honestly, I tried IBIS with the R5 and was underwhelmed. I ended up buying a second R5C and the Digital IS along with lens IS is perfect for my needs. But also, has Canon ever put IBIS in any of their C-line cams?

[ND64]

4 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

But also, has Canon ever put IBIS in any of their C-line cams?

No, but Canon isn't competing with itself.