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Sony has gone internal-4K crazy: A7RII, RX1004, RX10II


utsira
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There is no such guarantee. Nikon still doesn't have 12 MP sensor from A7s, and it took 3 years to get RX100 sensor in J5. 

​Nikon has the D4x/DF 16mp sensor, which performs as well or better than the A7s on the stills side.

http://www.soundimageplus.com/soundimageplus/2014/11/21/sony-a7s-compared-to-nikon-df-iso-performance

Don't see why they couldn't do a lowlight monster with that sensor if so inclined.

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Guess Sony going 4k with these cameras means that the rumored upcoming A6xx / A7xx model will also feature internal 4k. Keeping my hopes up for some high frame rate modes for that one as well...

​If Sony ever decides to release another APS-c camera, that's probably a pretty safe bet given 4k in the new RX cameras.

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For the record I don't think Sony has gone 4k crazy. I think that having 4k in all the new cameras is perfectly sane. The question is, why in 2015 are other manufacturers still charging top dollar for cameras that can only do 1080p? Now thats crazy.

If there is anything groundbreaking about Sony's new lineup it's simply this... it's a clear message that any camera released from this point on, sans 4k will be a certain failure. 

To all the naysayers who said 4k isn't necessary... well at least you have the option to record it 1080p if you so choose.

Now here's hoping that A7Rii turns out to be as great as we all want. Honestly, while the crazy low light performance of the A7S is impressive, it's more than most people need. The A7Rii could provide a perfect balance between usable still and video capture. We will soon see how it stacks up.

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If Sony colours are for you, I fully recommend this camera. If you go back to my original post I said "My only concern" ... I don;t hugely like the Sony colours.... Sensors are not equal.... It is personal preference.

​This is kind of idiotic statement as digital sensors don't have colors. Look it up. The color comes after processing data from bayer filter, which isn't a sensor but thin glass on top of sensor), color is mostly interpretation. by software. 

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-sensors.htm

Digital Sensors don't have colors. It's not a film

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​We hear this time and again, but... for now.. the 1DC is still the best lightweight 4K camera on the market, in terms of image.. imho.

There is talk of the 1D mk 5 and 5D mk 4 using the same dual sensor readout as the C300 mk 2, giving 15 stops in stills mode, which could equate to a very nice video image with C-log. They might be slow to the party, but still have potential to make the best image.

​I think now days by the time your project is all done.  Its been shot, graded and exported.  Image quality may be better in a camera you spend $8k - to $13K more money for, but I'd suggest the differences are way more incremental then fundamental these days.  In a few more years the gap will be even more narrow.  Ergonomics and physical features and build quality you get for $10,000 is not debatable.  "image alone" -  camera geeks are great are picking apart aspects of the image, but to the viewing public .......... in three years, footage from a $1,600 or $16,000 camera body, they'll never ever notice.  We're 90% there already. :-)

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​Alright, I'm going to be a little biased having within the last week switched over from Canon to some Nikon gear, but I don't think Nikon is out of the hybrid stills/video game yet.  They're keeping a grasp with the D750 (which I think most agree is a very nice image, even if only 1080p). And if they keep to Sony sensors, and put a modified A7RII sensor into a D8xx body,  Nikon could easily hang with the pack come next cycle.
I'll agree, Canon is falling behind, at least in the small video/photo hybrid systems category. They need to really blow some minds with the 5D MkIV, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of expectation that they will. It's probably going to be tried and true, will not impress on the stats, but will still be a hell of a workhorse for those who rely on canon for pro Photography.    

I loved my Panasonic GH4 and FZ1000, and from a usability standpoint they do a lot right. A LOT. But with that weak DR (please, please release VLOG), and weak lowlight performance, they've got their work cut out for them on the GH5. I can't get my hopes too high about a m4/3 sensor, but if anyone can pull some magic it's Panasonic. 

Sony has an impressive beast mode camera with this announcement. It'll be great to see some reviews and hands on performance, especially pertaining to lowlight. That picetag though is, well, steep. You can pick up a used a7S and an external recorder for around $2700USD right now if, like me, good lowlight and DR is the interest. And I don't think it's got me replacing my Samsung NX1 just yet, but the thought definitely crossed my mind. 


​Patric did you see this?  ----- http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/panasonic-avvcam/nab-15-from-the-panasonic-private-suite.html

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Wait the a7rii doesn't do 120fps at 1080p? Surely it's possible with being able to write fast enough for 4k, that's absurd

​The A7S will do 120fps at 1080p. 

A7S will have 4K internal without pixel binning in full frame, and 120fps at 1080p so it will still be better than AR II in video of course. 
Question is will they keep the 12mpx or be able to fit a 16mpx sensor (with same noise control). 12mpx is really low for photography (landscapes..). 

As I do 50% photo / 50% video, I will go A7RII if A7SII is 12mpx and/or especially if they also increase the price at 3000+$. If price remains 2500 for A7SII vs 3200 for A7RII, I might go A7SII anyway even with 12mpx only. 

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http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/panasonic-avvcam/nab-15-from-the-panasonic-private-suite.html

That's an interesting look into the planned moves by Panasonic, and I know many are waiting with bated breath for VLOG-L. I regretted getting rid of my GH4 when I started seeing buzz about this. With so many great options getting released in the coming months however, I think I might hold back before picking up another Pana. 

I think your early comment to Jimmy is spot on, though. We are 90% there, and soon enough IQ differences in different brands and models are going to be very, very slight.  That is, until 8k becomes the next big thing. (Damn you Neumannfilms and youtube, can't I have another year of 4k? https://youtu.be/sLprVF6d7Ug)

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So I am assuming I can use the Sigma 18-35mm for canon with an adapter and be able to record in the Super 35 mode just fine.

Does Super 35 mm​ mode (that is oversampled 4K without pixel binning) mean it uses a sensor area that is directly equivalent to a Sony APS-C body? In which case all of the E mount APS-C lenses could be used?

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Andrew thanks for a more insightful post than just specs. You bring up a very relevant point about cameras having soul over specs in the "arms race". I did a two camera shoot for a big client and we shot A camera on an Epic Dragon. The B camera was a BMCPC with an old Nikon 70-200. Guess what made most the cut? The little camera with a great piece of glass. 

Anyway, do you have any insight about the body size? Is is the same as the A7s? I have an A7s and would hate to have to give up some custom fit accessories as well as the small form. Little cameras are making the biggest waves right now. Also, do you know the highest frame rate in 4k Full Frame and 4k APS-C?

Thanks

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At this point I am 99% convinced the a7s will do 4K at 60fps. Hear me out. The sensor will be kept at 12mpx, since 8K is still some years off and doing 5K, 6K, 7K is just a middle-step that can benefit software panning or image stabilisation. If they create a 12mpx BSI sensor, the high ISO is going to improve some (don't know by how much) and the data throughput is going to be crazy fast. The Bionz processor can now handle 4K downsampling, so at a full pixel readout with no downsampling, 4K60p should be doable in the bigger body with IBIS (heat dissipation and all). Now the biggest challenge in this whole configuration would be the speed of the memory card ... wouls a top of the line SD card be capable of recording so much data? I am also wondering if they are going to reuse the IBIS body again or will they try to innovate with some video-centric ergonomic features.

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Just want to throw in my two cents. I am happy to see some great improvements in Sony cameras this year(codec,Slog). And while I appreciate they do 4K, I am still wondering why everybody thinks this is most important technical aspect.

When I show documentaries or short films to friends and relatives I will make sure they watch it on their a big tv(mostly still 1080p) in the living room. Some watch it on they Smartphones maybe. But who except us will watch footage on a 4K Monitor sitting 15 inches away and gawking at the details? Its convinient since we are probabaly checking out the forum and editing our own footage at that moment, but thats not the way film is meant to be watched....and surely most people(our audience included) still dont watch it like that.

I tend to watch youtube on my bigger 1080p tv in the living room and remember clearly when someone compared his new GH4 to his blackmagic pocket (same framing and equally well exposed) and thought the GH4 footage to be so much better looking. All I was thinking at that moment: what the &%$ are you smoking?!

Not saying I dont like 4K (its the future, I am aware of it), but our enthusiasm about it at this point still wont necessarily translate to an enhanced viewing experience for our audience.

 

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Just want to throw in my two cents. I am happy to see some great improvements in Sony cameras this year(codec,Slog). And while I appreciate they do 4K, I am still wondering why everybody thinks this is most important technical aspect.

When I show documentaries or short films to friends and relatives I will make sure they watch it on their a big tv(mostly still 1080p) in the living room. Some watch it on they Smartphones maybe. But who except us will watch footage on a 4K Monitor sitting 15 inches away and gawking at the details? Its convinient since we are probabaly checking out the forum and editing our own footage at that moment, but thats not the way film is meant to be watched....and surely most people(our audience included) still dont watch it like that.

I tend to watch youtube on my bigger 1080p tv in the living room and remember clearly when someone compared his new GH4 to his blackmagic pocket (same framing and equally well exposed) and thought the GH4 footage to be so much better looking. All I was thinking at that moment: what the &%$ are you smoking?!

Not saying I dont like 4K (its the future, I am aware of it), but our enthusiasm about it at this point still wont necessarily translate to an enhanced viewing experience for our audience.

 

4k content will drive sales of 4k TVs, monitors, mobile devices. Do Sony, Samsung and Panasonic make any of this hardware? If so it makes perfect sense to drive sales by providing content creators with affordable ways to produce content. 

Elementary my dear Watson.

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4k content will drive sales of 4k TVs, monitors, mobile devices. Do Sony, Samsung and Panasonic make any of this hardware? If so it makes perfect sense to drive sales by providing content creators with affordable ways to produce content. 

Elementary my dear Watson.

​Well, I was only talking about the viewing experience, nothing more. Thought we as film makers here have that as a priority. From an economic point of view of course it makes sense for them to push 4K....heck...to push any technical developement..usefull or not (hello 3D,2000 Hz tv). As long as you are not affiliated with Sony, Samsung and Panasonic and you collect your fair share from their sales is 4K it really helping your movie-making capabilities? Did anybody of your viewers say, two years ago your movies sucked, but now, since they are in 4k they are marvelous?

Other then that we have to keep up buying new gear so clients for professional work won't think you are too oldschool and start paying less I still do not quite understand the excitement about 4K when it comes to film making. But maybe I am too oldschool:)

 

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