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saltflyer

Run'n gun at night

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Hello

So: Shooting a fishing show on a large trailer boat. Only me, so a busy man! 2 host's with lavalier mic's, + ambient audio on Rode X (waves, motor, birds, wind and so on)

Shooting with 5Diii (not ML) with on-camera light and Rode stereo mic X on top + Tascam running Sennheiser G3 lavelier's in my belt.

Problems: For a lot of the fishing i'm not allowed too much light, so try to stay at ISO2500 at F4 if i can. Sometimes i need to go to ISO5000 when they need more darkness not to spook the fish. 5000 is really pushing it for broadcast though and my editor is not overly exited about ISO5000.

Focussing on the 5Diii with Zacuto: never 100% sure i'm in focus. I do the same as everyone else, i just turn the focus ring a bit, only to find out that i was in focus:) so all/most clips have got these small focus in/out's that makes it look very "unpro" I have tried focus peaking on ML, but it's really bad in the dark. I just hate the feeling of never being 100% sure that i'm in perfect focus.

Obviously ended up looking at the A7S which on paper and by tests sounds amazing. I read about bad placement of the record button, but how bad can it be..! Real bad!! Pretty much a deal breaker for me at this stage. You need to grow a small and thin extra finger between your thumb and index finger unless you throw the camera over in your left hand and then find the button with your right index finger. What a complete and utter f-up. Only solution i can see is to buy/build a cage for it so you have an extra handle to the right hand side so you can push the rec button with your index finger. This will work i think, but in the dark i still need to be able to find that recessed rec button. Im thinking of contact glueing on a small plastic button on top of the rec button, otherwise i'll be fumbling around after it constantly.

I understand you can't assign another button for start stop recording?  What about the battery grip, no record button on there either?

Has the A7S that horrible AGC that Canon serves up? 

Is there another solution for me out there that i haven't looked at?

And last, How high ISO would you think i can go to for broadcast TV on A7S?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

The record button is not a deal breaker. You could be happy with ISO 25,600 or higher- you'll want to test with Neat Video to see what's good for you. A7S is the best low light camera right now.

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Wow shooting in that dark sounds like a mess. I shot for a fishing show a long time ago with NASCAR drivers fishing and telling racing story's as they fish. It never made it to tv in any big way the host and the money guy argued all the time and they did not pay people i had to hold the tapes from them till i got paid. We shot all day and i was sunburned so bad. I would tell them if they want a good show you have to use light i can not see some light running off the fish i think it is the other way around fish attract to light..

Is this for a local area show?

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Wow shooting in that dark sounds like a mess. I shot for a fishing show a long time ago with NASCAR drivers fishing and telling racing story's as they fish. It never made it to tv in any big way the host and the money guy argued all the time and they did not pay people i had to hold the tapes from them till i got paid. We shot all day and i was sunburned so bad. I would tell them if they want a good show you have to use light i can not see some light running off the fish i think it is the other way around fish attract to light..

Is this for a local area show?

​season 4 of National TV show on air in NZ and AUS. This season we are doing a fair bit of night fishing, hence my problem..

Thanks

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Hello

So: Shooting a fishing show on a large trailer boat. Only me, so a busy man! 2 host's with lavalier mic's, + ambient audio on Rode X (waves, motor, birds, wind and so on)

Shooting with 5Diii (not ML) with on-camera light and Rode stereo mic X on top + Tascam running Sennheiser G3 lavelier's in my belt.

Problems: For a lot of the fishing i'm not allowed too much light, so try to stay at ISO2500 at F4 if i can. Sometimes i need to go to ISO5000 when they need more darkness not to spook the fish. 5000 is really pushing it for broadcast though and my editor is not overly exited about ISO5000.

Focussing on the 5Diii with Zacuto: never 100% sure i'm in focus. I do the same as everyone else, i just turn the focus ring a bit, only to find out that i was in focus:) so all/most clips have got these small focus in/out's that makes it look very "unpro" I have tried focus peaking on ML, but it's really bad in the dark. I just hate the feeling of never being 100% sure that i'm in perfect focus.

Obviously ended up looking at the A7S which on paper and by tests sounds amazing. I read about bad placement of the record button, but how bad can it be..! Real bad!! Pretty much a deal breaker for me at this stage. You need to grow a small and thin extra finger between your thumb and index finger unless you throw the camera over in your left hand and then find the button with your right index finger. What a complete and utter f-up. Only solution i can see is to buy/build a cage for it so you have an extra handle to the right hand side so you can push the rec button with your index finger. This will work i think, but in the dark i still need to be able to find that recessed rec button. Im thinking of contact glueing on a small plastic button on top of the rec button, otherwise i'll be fumbling around after it constantly.

I understand you can't assign another button for start stop recording?  What about the battery grip, no record button on there either?

Has the A7S that horrible AGC that Canon serves up? 

Is there another solution for me out there that i haven't looked at?

And last, How high ISO would you think i can go to for broadcast TV on A7S?

​Rent a 4k recorder for your A7s and shoot in 4K (No high frame rates though). Sony A7s is simply the best camera in the world in low light, bar none. You can push the Iso levels  pretty extreme, 5000 iso is like shooting very low iso on a 5D (I would guess around 640 mark) The base for Log is 3200 iso. I shot some pretty insane footage at 200K iso that was still pretty usable. To be safe I wouldn't go over 100K (generally stay up to 50k iso for excellent image quality). I've shot iso 5000 and had a perfect image as long as you have some kind of light.

 

If you're able to bring a couple of battery powered lights and set them on stands you'd be amazed what you can do with a Sony A7s, I still can't believe it myself. The benefit of 4k would be to deliver in 1080p ProRes for a cleaner image and better color.

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Thanks for that.. 

20000 looks pretty impressive...is that the sweet spot for high iso?

Like 5Diii native iso's 160-320-640-1250-2500 and so on, has the A7S got similar or just the 3200 for s-log2?

How long before NAB 2015 do they release the news on new gear? anyone expecting something new FF wise?

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Am I the only who has lost several shots because of the record button placement? I shoot a lot of run&gun and almost every shoot some shot is fucked up as I tend to press that record button with my hand somehow. A7s seems to also have this weird bug where sometimes you press record, you get the 0:00 sign and think it's recording, only to look at the screen a bit later and realize it isn't. Anyone else bumped into it?

High ISO max for me is 25,600 on the A7s as on the 5d it's 6400. So the A7s is about two, two and a half stops better in lowlight. It seems to do noise reduction internally, but atleast that saves me from doing it later myself. Works great for stuff that you just hand over. Also it goes crazy high for those silly situations where you need more (we actually lit an object from an iphone that was 3 meters away at 25,600 so it's pretty crazy)

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hmcindie- I don't think it's a bug, I think what happens is the button is pressed twice really fast (effectively). This happened once, and after that I always watch to make sure it's running. Yell 'camera speed!' or 'action' on set after finger is off the button and the counter is going.

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I agree that the record button placement on the A7s is horrible and I'd be fairly upset if I missed important shots because of that. 

One user on here showed a picture of his cage and he actually used the Sony remote control attached to the right side of his cage instead of hitting the record button. Not ideal either but it looked far more practical than hitting that tiny button. Might be worth looking into. 

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No doubt for sure here that I'd go with an A7s if on a tight budget and filming at night! There is nothing quite like that.

Sure, the record button is in a slightly odd place, but after a bit of practice you'll be able to reach for it like second nature.

Also, I suggest strapping a small LED light to your wrist, so you can just tap it and then see your way around. Is very handy having this for night filming in pitch black.

For filming on a boat as a one man crew, I doubt I'd use a Shogun with the A7s. At least not until you've got plenty of experience with it on the land first.

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Don't know about AGC(from the description on wikipedia sounds like it works like a compressor) on the a7s but I think there is a limiter when sending audio through the mini jack port.

I have started ditching my Zoom h6 on shoots for faster set-up and just use my Art Pre 2 channel preamp straight to camera. Works for what I'm doing, clean and noiseless.

 

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I have auto ISO set to either 25600 or 51200 with the A7s for stills and video.

Probably 25600 max might be the best for a TV series except for maybe some shorter bits.   I am just an amateur stills shooter who dabbles in video though.

I think I know the series.....

Good luck with it!

EDIT    Actually it would be interesting to know what ISOs people do/have used a A7s at for television.

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I have auto ISO set to either 25600 or 51200 with the A7s for stills and video.

Probably 25600 max might be the best for a TV series except for maybe some shorter bits.   I am just an amateur stills shooter who dabbles in video though.

I think I know the series.....

Good luck with it!

EDIT    Actually it would be interesting to know what ISOs people do/have used a A7s at for television.

​Thank you Noone..

Can't find anyone who has shot at super high ISO's for TV. We have borrowed one for some tests and i think we can get away with 20000. That will give us the DOP required to shoot some action out in the salty brine..

With the A7S not having much in terms of weather sealing, we are wondering how long it will take us to kill one. Our GH4's have been taking saltwater waves over them a few times now and they run without issues after a hose and dry down. The only thing that speaks for the A7S (in my case) is the low light performance unfortunately. A GH camera with FF would be fantastic..

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