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New Sony sensor has 21 stops dynamic range, 5120 native ISO - and destined for a video device NOT a smartphone!


Andrew Reid
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It's all starting to make sense.  These cameras will be gobbled up by sports and wild-life photographs as quickly as wedding photographers/videographers are bringing the A7Ss online.   I was just out with my A7 and a6000, with vintage glass.  Sony SO gets it :)  Thanks for keeping me up to date with these stories Andrew!

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I don't get it. I can understand this sensor being used for scientific instruments, but what use is 36000fps for cinema? You might as well just put a still image up on the screen! And as Andrew points out, it obviously isn't going to be a stills camera ...

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it'll have been funded by a partner (probably in the scientific/space/aero industry) and then the tech will filter into the rest of the markets in due course - likel ya year after it;s initially used on a camera system costing millions.  This is why the high sensitivity and very fast shutter is probably a design criteria.  Sony are rather clever.  People (including me) said we didnt need 36mpx on a full frame sensor and then sony developed a 36mpx sensor for the d800 - probably largely funded by nikon.  then they offer the same sensor for 1/3rd the price in the a7r a year later!  I woudlnt shoot with anything lower than 36mpx for landscapes since using the a7r.

 

This sensor is gonna be wild and i cant wait to see this tech getting down to us lowly peasants 

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I doubt that 36,000FPS is even able to captured through practical means.

 

It probably won't be outside of a scientific device but I expect Sony will sell this sensor to the science market as well. Anyway, the number is just a measurement. The take-away is that its a damned fast sensor. Let's not get caught up in the exact figures. 240fps in 6K is much more usable and a sensor this fast can do that....great.

 

Also it might be that at the very high speed modes, they are black and white & designed for science. It is the active pixel color sampling modes that are of most interest to me.

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This is absolutely INSANE

 

This is my absolute dream camera. 

Put that with the new rumored Sony A9 (pro still machine, with upgraded A6000 AF, weather sealing, 50+ mpx) and you get the best cameras in the world for stills and video. 

 

I just hope such a camera will be 1500-3000 (thanks to low sensor size..) and not 25 000 USD ...

 

Let's pray. Great time ahead of us, thanks to Sony, Panasonic and so on. Fuck you Canon. Just sold my 5DIII by the way...

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slow motion?

 

But 36000fps isn't slow motion, it's 'practically inert' motion. 

 

The Phantom Flex only shoots up to 2000fps in FHD. 

 

36000fps conformed to 24fps = 25minutes per one-second of real life action! 

 

So a 10-second shot within a film would (I think) represent 1/15th of a second real life action. What happens on a human scale in that sort of unit of time that won't just look like a still photograph? Unless the camera body itself is moving at extraordinarily high speeds as it shoots, I can't imagine much more than novelty macro shots.

 

This is just academic though. I get now that 36000 won't be used for cinema!

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But 36000fps isn't slow motion, it's 'practically inert' motion.

 

So what's your point Matt, is it that 36000fps is useless?

 

I can tell you it isn't. In science it has tons of applications. And it isn't "inert" if you have an exploding missile shell in front of the lens.

 

It will capture motion so fast that it would otherwise be invisible to the naked eye.

 

That's why I think the sensor has two markets. Cinema at 6k, 240fps, 20 stop DR and the scientific market in a high speed camera. And who knows the 1" sensor might even enable clear low light pictures on a smartphone one day.

 

Good job Sony is pushing the boundaries, because Canon are not.

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This sensor is such that if it's cheap to produce Sony can basically produce many generations of products with this same sensor. Think it like Canon 18Mpix sensor in 1 zillion product generations :lol:

 

Naturally the video cameras that are built around it are limited by the ammount of CPU/ RAM (buffer) + storage implementation.

 

Even tho ram beeing very cheap it's a shame that we will likely see a slow progression in the use of this sensor.

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Look beyond the specs, impressive though they are,

 

...and it'll start making sense. As usual.

 

 

Put that with the new rumored Sony A9 (pro still machine, with upgraded A6000 AF, weather sealing, 50+ mpx) and you get the best cameras in the world for stills and video. 

 

I actually hope that the rumoured A9, which is supposed to be the top of the line photo/video model, will not be like a pimped up A7s with a full frame sensor. Or at least I hope such a camera wouldn't have the new sensor tech, yet. As nice as the A7s may be, I don't think that a FF sensor behind the existing E-mount is an ideal long-term solution for pro (or prosumer) models. 

 

I wish Sony had the balls to come up with a new lens mount solution soon. The introduction of such new tech would be a nice excuse to do just that.

I wish they either re-purposed their existing A-mount and came up with newly designed set of cine lenses for it, or came up with an all new lens mount. Slightly larger and more rugged than the E-mount, and with a flange distance close to Leica M or thereabouts. The existing E-mount would be just fine for the existing APS-C consumer and serious amateur photo/video line. Well, maybe for the existing S35 pro video cameras, too. I doubt that this leaked sensor tech will be introduced in the rumoured A9 around Q1 2014, though.

 

I just hope such a camera will be 1500-3000 (thanks to low sensor size..) and not 25 000 USD ...

 

Suppose the logical step for Sony would be to come up with a model above the new FS7 first, something to replace the existing F5 and F55 models, wouldn't it. Start from the top of the line pro video cameras, and then let the new tech flow down to the more prosumer oriented hybrids.

But we'll see. Wouldn't mind a reasonably priced (for a mere mortal) model with those kinds of specs, either. But so far this is all just wishful thinking.

Premature GAS, perhaps?  :P

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So what's your point Matt, is it that 36000fps is useless?

 

I can tell you it isn't. In science it has tons of applications. And it isn't "inert" if you have an exploding missile shell in front of the lens.

 

It will capture motion so fast that it would otherwise be invisible to the naked eye.

 

That's why I think the sensor has two markets. Cinema at 6k, 240fps, 20 stop DR and the scientific market in a high speed camera. And who knows the 1" sensor might even enable clear low light pictures on a smartphone one day.

 

Good job Sony is pushing the boundaries, because Canon are not.

 

 

If you read my original post  - the one my comment you took against follows on from - I say "I can understand this sensor being used for scientific instruments, but what use is 36000fps for cinema".  Not to get petty about it, but I was in fact the first person on this thread to suggest such high frame rates would actually only be useful for scientific applications. You certainly didn't do so in your review. You just said 36000fps doesn't make sense for smartphones. As if it does for cinema!!!

 

You always take my posts as being antagonistic Andrew. If you have to do so and feel the need to comment on them, please at least make the effort to read them in the context in which they were written.

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I am selling my A7s. Its an ergonomic nightmare. And its AF is terrible. The Canon, other than its dynamic range IS A PERFECT CAMERA.

 

"Ergonomic nightmare" is a bit rough.  But I agree Canon has the best ergonomics of any camera.  That said, you can't get through the viewfinder focus peaking/zoom in the Canons (except EOS-M of course).   What I love about the Sony A7 line is it is SMALL (again, Canon 5Ds, love them, but they're big) and the EVF has a lot of benefits in eyeballing exposure and again, vintage glass use.  If money and space are no object I don't understand why any pro wouldn't have an a7 and (Canon or NIkon). For my old eyes, Sony is a Godsend.

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