I'd Really Like This Audio Gear

[fuzzynormal]

I'd Really Like This Audio Gear:

A wireless mic receiver that records to a miniSD card, has a line output, and has a headphone jack for monitoring audio in real time. 

I've been using my Sen. ew100 system with a Zoom recorder for-eva', and it's useful, but, man, it would be so much more convenient if the receiver was a recorder unto itself with monitoring and output ability.

I went out looking for such on the interwebs, but no go.  Seems like this sort of thing would be ideal for 1-man-band folks with a DSLR.  Does it exists?

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I'd Really Like This Audio Gear:

A wireless mic receiver that records to a miniSD card, has a line output, and has a headphone jack for monitoring audio in real time. 

Zaxcom lawyers say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Anaconda_]

This isn't too far off from what you're already doing, but in my opinion is more flexible because of the connector type and 48v phantom power. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1349307-REG/saramonic_sr_vrm1_compact_liner_pcm_recorder.html

I tend to use it the other way around to how I picture your setup. Have a lav going into this, and record local. Then plug it into a Rode Wireless go which sends the audio to my camera for monitoring and recording backup audio.

What this offers that no other device this size does is Phantom Power 48v, so you can also use this setup for wireless boom, reporter mics and a few other applications, it works very well and means you always have backup audio.

[sanveer]

Maybe the Deity BP-TRX if you're outside the United States. 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

I tend to use it the other way around to how I picture your setup. Have a lav going into this, and record local. Then plug it into a Rode Wireless go which sends the audio to my camera for monitoring and recording backup audio.

Even better would be to pick up a couple of Tentacle Sync E, one for each of your recorder (unnecessary though if you have a Zoom F Series, or better) and your camera. 

  

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Maybe the Deity BP-TRX if you're outside the United States. 

Yes. Also the Tascam DR10CS is worth a look at too if you're outside of the USA.

[fuzzynormal]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Zaxcom lawyers

What are they?  Patent trolls?

[sanveer]

36 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

What are they?  Patent trolls?

The United States apparently produces quite a few of IP Troll lawyers and companies (Zaxxcom and RED are the biggest IP trolls). 

[fuzzynormal]

7 hours ago, sanveer said:

Zaxxcom and RED are the biggest IP trolls). 

From what I saw bopping around online, they have a patent for a transmitter with audio recorder.  Seems like if the recorder was on the receiver, that would avoid the patent nonsense?  

I don't know. 

What I do know is that it would be nice if I could simply get a wireless audio signal into a receiver mounted on the hot show of my camera and listen to what it's getting...so many of these audio options (like, say, mounting a lav mic w/recorder on the subject like theTascam DR-10L) can't offer any outboard monitoring.

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

What are they?  Patent trolls?

Technically they're not patent trolls, because Zaxcom is a real and significant business in operation in this industry. 
(Zaxcom is #2 in pro field recorders after Sound Devices, and Zaxcom is #2 in pro wireless after Lectrosonics)

 

9 hours ago, sanveer said:

The United States apparently produces quite a few of IP Troll lawyers and companies (Zaxxcom and RED are the biggest IP trolls). 

Yes, Zaxcom is "not a patent troll" in the same logic that RED is also not one. 

Zaxcom is the RED of the Sound Department. 

Depends on your perspective as to if that is the biggest complement, or the biggest slur. 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

From what I saw bopping around online, they have a patent for a transmitter with audio recorder.  Seems like if the recorder was on the receiver, that would avoid the patent nonsense?  

I don't know. 

Oh, good point, sorry, did skim read your post too fast before replying!

But still, my initial answer before is still relevant.... maybe? As I do wonder if Zaxcom might hold a patent related to this, but I don't recall this ever being mentioned as a specific feature that Zaxcom blocks from happening. And I've in the past browsed through the patents Zaxcom holds, and I don't recall seeing something like this.

However, Zaxcom is the only company to make a recorder (the Zaxcom Nova) with receivers integrated inside it. I wouldn't be shocked if they hold a patent for it. 

Other companies have done tight recorder/receiver integration, but they're still kept external to each other. Such as a Sound Devices 833 / SL-2 (that's what I'll get one day for my 833!) or a Sound Devices 688 / SL-6. 
 

 

1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

What I do know is that it would be nice if I could simply get a wireless audio signal into a receiver mounted on the hot show of my camera and listen to what it's getting...so many of these audio options (like, say, mounting a lav mic w/recorder on the subject like theTascam DR-10L) can't offer any outboard monitoring.

That's a very good use case, especially as so many entry level mirrorless/DSLRs lack a headphone jack (or even a mic input in the first place!).  I've asked in the Deity Usergroup as to if this is a feature, and if not, could it be included in a firmware update. Have got a Deity BP-TRX on its way to me, I'll let you know. 

[newfoundmass]

Didn't Tascam release something like this, but overseas, with the American version lacking the recording function, because of patents? 

[Thomas Hill]

I read something a couple weeks ago about the Zaxcom patent but it was all about transmitters that record. If I remember correctly, Tascam tried to get around it by having two units that connected together, Deity does it but not in the US and running afoul of Zaxcom's patent put JuicedLink out of business.

The only one I'm aware of that records at the receiver end is the Zaxcom that @IronFilm mentioned. And it's a weeee bit pricey.

[IronFilm]

On 7/17/2020 at 2:43 PM, newfoundmass said:

Didn't Tascam release something like this, but overseas, with the American version lacking the recording function, because of patents? 

You're referring to the Tascam DR10L/DR10CS

But it is not a receiver. (or even a transmitter)

[newfoundmass]

I think I confused it with the Deity that @Thomas Hill mentioned! 

[Thomas Hill]

That whole patent thing appears to have been solved back in April:

Firmware V2.0:

1. New micro SD card menu which includes formatting and card checks card capacity.

2. New USB menu which allows the user to connect it to a PC/Mac/iOS/Android and transfer files from the micro SD card.

3. New USB Sound Card option. Merely plug the HD-TX into your PC/Mac/iOS/Android device and it will appear in your sound preferences as a USB audio input device. The headphone port on the HD-TX still only monitors audio directly off the pre-amp of the HD-TX.

4. You can now transmit and record at the same time in the USA when you have selected both the XLR input and enabled +48V phantom power.

http://www.deitymic.com/firmware-USA/

 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

That whole patent thing appears to have been solved back in April:

Nope. Zaxcom lawyers are still a bothersome nuisance. 

Note that this was referencing the HD-TX, that a bulky plugin transmitter, not what you'd use on talent.

The BP-TRX Bodypack Transmitter still has this limitation in the USA.

[sanveer]

On 7/17/2020 at 5:33 AM, fuzzynormal said:

Seems like if the recorder was on the receiver, that would avoid the patent nonsense?

But that may also lower the quality and but depth of the audio(?). Plus RF interferences, transmission drops and other issues. Since the recorder is a good quality backup and the one transmitted is more of a reference sound. 

[Thomas Hill]

13 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Nope. Zaxcom lawyers are still a bothersome nuisance. 

Note that this was referencing the HD-TX, that a bulky plugin transmitter, not what you'd use on talent.

The BP-TRX Bodypack Transmitter still has this limitation in the USA.

It's a yep for the piece that I was talking about when I mentioned Deity being able to transmit and record. I didn't know that they had a second transmitter with recording capability. But it said that firmware 2.0 is coming for it in Q3 so it COULD soon be exactly what @fuzzynormal is looking for since it is a transmitter and single channel receiver.

Personally, the HD-TX sounds great to me... Recording at the mic plus a wireless signal and only use XLR cables when the situation calls for them.

5 hours ago, sanveer said:

But that may also lower the quality and but depth of the audio(?). 

I can let you know in a week or so.

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

I can let you know in a week or so.

Ok. That would be interesting. Maybe a comparison with internal and over wireless. 

[fuzzynormal]

9 hours ago, sanveer said:

But [recording on the receiver] may also lower the quality .... RF interferences, transmission drops and other issues.

Well, to be clear, recording the audio signal from the receiver is what I do now (using the Senheiser wireless ew100 system and a portable recorder)

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the audio recorded/monitored absolutely has to be from the receiver.  

Operators need to know what's actually making it to "tape."  This need to be done at the end of the chain.  You can't really effectively monitor a signal coming from some dude wearing a mic transmitter a long distance away.  Not that it's impossible, it's just too risky.  For instance, if you're just monitoring the transmitter and that monitor signal drops out of range, you'd be left wondering if you're just losing the reference signal you're monitoring --or if you're losing the actual audio signal that's making it to the receiver; not knowing what's what is a really bad situation.

Anyway, back to square one.  It seems there's literally no professional or semi-pro product that has a recorder built into the receiver?