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BrorSvensson

1dx mark ii, 4k 60fps?

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Below, full picture is 1D X Mark II at 20MP

Largest white box is entire frame of 1D C at 18MP

Smallest white box is DCI 4K.

It's a shame the still can't do a full pixel readout at 5.5K or 6.5K like Samsung have been able to do on the NX1.

I am sure the 1D X Mark II sensor could do 5.5K if they let it!

1d-x-ii-crop-vs-1d-c.thumb.jpg.d3b7440bf

Yeah it's crazy and I really dislike this kind of 'marketing'. They may have lost a few sales here.

Very hard to go back to standard picture profiles after you have spent so much time and effort on your own looks / LUTs.

Canon need to re-consider this...

What exactly would they cannibalise by adding just one Cinema EOS feature to their non Cinema EOS camera!? And it isn't as if the 1D X Mark II is exactly cheap.

Andrew, have you managed to play with any other uploaded profiles on your 1DC? Surely someone can unlock a lovely LOG setting, or even snatch C-log from the 1DC. Possible? 

Move seen a few "EOS Movie" vids on YouTube - as standard seems to look like much clearer and detailed 5D mk III footage with a bit better dynamic range. Definitely needs a proper lovely profile for us cinematic nuts! 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Below, full picture is 1D X Mark II at 20MP

Largest white box is entire frame of 1D C at 18MP

Smallest white box is DCI 4K.

It's a shame the still can't do a full pixel readout at 5.5K or 6.5K like Samsung have been able to do on the NX1.

I am sure the 1D X Mark II sensor could do 5.5K if they let it!

1d-x-ii-crop-vs-1d-c.thumb.jpg.d3b7440bf

Yeah it's crazy and I really dislike this kind of 'marketing'. They may have lost a few sales here.

Very hard to go back to standard picture profiles after you have spent so much time and effort on your own looks / LUTs.

Canon need to re-consider this...

What exactly would they cannibalise by adding just one Cinema EOS feature to their non Cinema EOS camera!? And it isn't as if the 1D X Mark II is exactly cheap.

It probably can do a full pixel read out, but not process all the data generated. So there is a compromise.

I have used the focus peaking feature on an external monitor. And, to be honest, on a run and gun situation.... I would use it over the old method of magnifying and checking focus, but the new PDAF.... It's just simple... I would definitely use it over peaking any day. If you haven't used it... Trust me... You are missing out. Borrow, Rent a 70D... Also, get yourself a 50/1.2. Play around with the touch screen for day... And it will definitely change your opinion of peaking versus PDAF.

I don't doubt that it can get focus quickly with PDAF, what I am more concerned about is the field of focus and exactly where that is. If you want to control what is in the image, instead of hoping the camera gets it right, you need tools to help you with that.

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It probably can do a full pixel read out, but not process all the data generated. So there is a compromise.

4K at 60fps is a lot of data.

5K at 24p is less than half of that.

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If you want to control what is in the image, instead of hoping the camera gets it right, you need tools to help you with that.

See, as confident as you think you are in using focus peaking, that's how confident that I am that PDAF nails focus.

The beauty of it is that its all touch screen. You want something in focus, you touch it and its in focus no matter the thickness of DOF. If PDAF isn't nailing focus, send it back in for repair.

 

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Andrew, have you managed to play with any other uploaded profiles on your 1DC? Surely someone can unlock a lovely LOG setting, or even snatch C-log from the 1DC. Possible? 

Move seen a few "EOS Movie" vids on YouTube - as standard seems to look like much clearer and detailed 5D mk III footage with a bit better dynamic range. Definitely needs a proper lovely profile for us cinematic nuts! 

+1

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DPAF is a game changer. The technology is amazing- it allows fast, accurate focus with no hunting. Someday we'll be able to see DPAF pixels on screen to help with manual focus, much better than peaking. Here's how the hardware works: https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/articles/Canon_Developers_Interview_nonfacing_pressquality.pdf

(Sony has this too, for example, on the A7R II).

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DPAF is a game changer. The technology is amazing- it allows fast, accurate focus with no hunting. Someday we'll be able to see DPAF pixels on screen to help with manual focus, much better than peaking. Here's how the hardware works: https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/articles/Canon_Developers_Interview_nonfacing_pressquality.pdf

(Sony has this too, for example, on the A7R II).

You know what though...

Chances are, it won't work with MF, FD or other legacy lenses. So I guess focus peaking is a miss...

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I thought peaking would be great. Until I used it myself with the A7s and it usually was a bit off.

But the ML enabled sharpening of the output image (instead of peaking) is great! It shows where the focus actually is way better than some white or red lines. I usually take out the focus peaking so having it or not won't affect my shooting style. But I will miss the magic lantern sharpening for focus.

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I thought peaking would be great. Until I used it myself with the A7s and it usually was a bit off.

But the ML enabled sharpening of the output image (instead of peaking) is great! It shows where the focus actually is way better than some white or red lines. I usually take out the focus peaking so having it or not won't affect my shooting style. But I will miss the magic lantern sharpening for focus.

Right, ML screen sharpening does wonders, much better than their own peaking and the one i have seen in a7sII (a7sII in real life has lower screen quality than 5d3, checked them side by side. Additionally peaking dots was making a lot of mess).

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Right, ML screen sharpening does wonders, much better than their own peaking and the one i have seen in a7sII (a7sII in real life has lower screen quality than 5d3, checked them side by side. Additionally peaking dots was making a lot of mess).

Yup. I was shocked by how bad the lcd was on the A7s compared straight to the 5d3. Just in image quality. Even the LCD on the goddamn Amira is worse! I shot with that thing in the snow and it was ghosting like craaaazy. The 5d was chugging along, no problem. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n423v8w64khndhs/_BK_8220_small.jpg?dl=0

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On 1/2/2016 at 7:44 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Speaking from my 1D C experience...

MJPEG is 500Mbit/s so the data rate for the CPU to handle is insane. Editing off an SSD or RAID 0 like I do the drives aren't a bottle neck, it's the CPU.

What compounds the problem is that MJPEG doesn't seem to be well supported with hardware acceleration.

The Mercury Engine in Premiere for instance seems to revert to software rather than hardware accelerated by Open CL or CUDA when it comes to MJPEG.

H.264 and H.265 may be more complex with the clever compression but it is hardware accelerated.

You will effectivly be editing MJPEG 4K 60fps at 800Mbit/s in software mode, on the CPU only. The effects will take ages to render too.

1D C 4K 24p is 500Mbit/s (same on 1D X Mark II)... this is tough enough, you really need to transcode to ProRes.

Again speaking from direct experience with the files, the H.264 4K from the GH4 and A7S II can be edited natively on my machine in Premiere with smooth playback especially at 1/2 res in the timeline monitor. MJPEG doesn't even play back smoothly when I reduce the playback res, which again points to the lack of proper support of such an old dated codec in a modern NLE.

Canon have made a mistake.

I'll mos def buy a 1DXmk2 when it comes out, and I'm trying to figure out which hardware should I buy to set up a RAID 0, which seems way cheaper than SSD drives to work with the 4K MJPEG files. Could you please, Andrew, share what hard drives and RAID are you using? Thanks in advance.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Since it looks we'll be shooting Technicolour Cinestyle on the 1DXII if we want a LOG workflow, 

This is trying Cinestyle on 1DC.

 

-sharpness off, contrast off, saturation -2, colour tone 0. (default Technicolor settings) 

-6400 ISO,

-horrible domestic florescent lights,

-high shutter to get sharp frames (hence 6400). 

-24-105mm F/4 L @ 105mm f/4. & 85mm f/4

1DCC_000000.thumb.jpeg.b4ba62ae03e3fd537

1DCCC_000000.thumb.jpeg.9fb561e813126a02

Surprised me the cleanness at 6400 since I've been shooting on a Nikon D5300 lately and 6400 looks like a noise festival with colour bands as guests. This damn clean. 

 

Do you think Technicolour Cinestyle will be usable for Log worflows? (the posted images are at least 90% representative of the native MJPEG file grabs) so you can try grading and see if it fits LOG grading workflows.

 

What I love about the 1DC? 

1- It's SOFT. Like Red/Alexa. When I say sharpening off, it turns sharpening off. Simple ha? No, ALL the cheaper new 4K cameras I've tried and bought stillnhave sharpening at zero. It seems like a very easy firmware fix but they don't do it for some reason = inherent Video look.

2- The body size and weight. It makes me feel like a big man, probably to compensate for an inner psychological issue, or physical :) 

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13 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Since it looks we'll be shooting Technicolour Cinestyle on the 1DXII if we want a LOG workflow, 

This is trying Cinestyle on 1DC.

 

-sharpness off, contrast off, saturation -2, colour tone 0. (default Technicolor settings) 

-6400 ISO,

-horrible domestic florescent lights,

-high shutter to get sharp frames (hence 6400). 

-24-105mm F/4 L @ 105mm f/4. & 85mm f/4

1DCC_000000.thumb.jpeg.b4ba62ae03e3fd537

1DCCC_000000.thumb.jpeg.9fb561e813126a02

Surprised me the cleanness at 6400 since I've been shooting on a Nikon D5300 lately and 6400 looks like a noise festival with colour bands as guests. This damn clean. 

 

Do you think Technicolour Cinestyle will be usable for Log worflows? (the posted images are at least 90% representative of the native MJPEG file grabs) so you can try grading and see if it fits LOG grading workflows.

 

What I love about the 1DC? 

1- It's SOFT. Like Red/Alexa. When I say sharpening off, it turns sharpening off. Simple ha? No, ALL the cheaper new 4K cameras I've tried and bought stillnhave sharpening at zero. It seems like a very easy firmware fix but they don't do it for some reason = inherent Video look.

2- The body size and weight. It makes me feel like a big man, probably to compensate for an inner psychological issue, or physical :) 

 

I had a tiny little go at this - a bit rushed but not too bad.

The jpeg doesn't have much information in it but it's not a bad flat image from the 1DC. Would really need to use proper footage. 

The 1DX II is on my rental to-do list when it's released, so I hope something works! (LOG based). 

 

 

ebrahim1dc.jpg

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi
1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

 

 

 

Skin is horrible here and very low quality. you have to click on the image then click ''full size'' on the lower left to get the full 4K image.

 

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30 minutes ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Skin is horrible here and very low quality. you have to click on the image then click ''full size'' on the lower left to get the full 4K image.

 

Probably missed a trick then!

Yes skin is rubbish due to highly compressed jpeg, if I've got a min I'll follow your instructions and give it another whirl. 

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52 minutes ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Skin is horrible here and very low quality. you have to click on the image then click ''full size'' on the lower left to get the full 4K image.

 

Quality is much better from the full size 4k image I didn't know about. 

Quick 2 minute job in FCPX. 

Again would need house proper footage and see what it looks like in motion. :)

ebrahim1dc3.jpg

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I'm getting eye cancer ^^, the problem might be bad fluorescent light with wrong WB.

This is how I imagine it looked in RL, the second is correcting for overexposure and colorshift

cinestyle.jpg

cinestyle2.jpg

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi
10 minutes ago, araucaria said:

I'm getting eye cancer ^^,

So am I.

It might be Cinestyle isn't good with the 1DC (and hence probably 1DXII) because under the same conditions Portrait looked lovely.  In real life it wasn't that it had much more pink/red that Cinestyle turned to gray.

Nonetheless I could get this from it (cinestyle). 

 

Image9.jpg

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