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Don Kotlos

Revival of super 8 film ?

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Mattias, I would love to learn more. I have always scoffed at film because it just seemed way out of my price range, but this is looking doable. Any info would be helpful. I'm totally new to this so assume I know nothing of film. 

I am not sure but but I think Mattias made a joke or typing error? (even in the old days when I started filming it was more expensive)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/920144-REG/kodak_1738053_vision3_50d_7203_clr.html

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I am not sure but but I think Mattias made a joke or typing error? (even in the old days when I started filming it was more expensive)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/920144-REG/kodak_1738053_vision3_50d_7203_clr.html

 

No joke or typo. Developing isnt hard or expensive. If its Color negative, reversal or B&W doesnt matter. Easy peasy.

Scanning is trickier for negative.

Reversal can be done with a DIY solution and a digital camera, very cheap.

But if this is something you really want to do, a s8  automatic frame by frame scanner is $1000.

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No joke or typo. Developing isnt hard or expensive. If its Color negative, reversal or B&W doesnt matter. Easy peasy.

Scanning is trickier for negative.

Reversal can be done with a DIY solution and a digital camera, very cheap.

But if this is something you really want to do, a s8  automatic frame by frame scanner is $1000.

you can scan 35mm at 4k for about £20k with that black magic/cintel scanner  - I know people who spend 20k on cars on finance and every day the car loses £100 of its value.  I expect anyone with a good credit rating could get a business loan and start shooting and scanning 35mm at home.  https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/gb/products/cintel

I expect now film is on the up someone already working daily as a commercial cinematographer could start shooting film on a konvas 35mm camera for jobs where the look adds to the production value. 

 

 

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Super 8 never really died to those determined to shoot on it since it was always a comparatively cheap format to shoot even when all the main labs closed and a handful of independent vendors picked up the niche demand. Processing/DIY scanning at home can be fine if you are dealing with 50ft at a time - but can quickly become impractical. Kodak's new camera however seems to be several steps back to make film aquasition appeal to filmmakers as an alternative to digital. No single frame or interchangeable lenses? The new camera from Kodak is fine for a soft introduction to shooting film, but not much else. What Kodak should do is collaborate with Arri on a hybrid S16 and 2perf 35mm camera, using a similar concept to the new S8 ...

The Dream:

S16 camera would cost around £5-7k, form factor similar to an A-minima (200ft internal - 400ft external mag).

2perf 35mm camera - Arri 2c form factor...name your price.

simultaneous HD video/audio recording via reflex (effectively a glorified video tap recording to SSD) - SDI/HDMI out - XLR in etc etc.

Stock cost from Kodak could include Telecine service...user can edit or select takes from the HD proxy video that is then sent to Kodak via cloud. User can send EDL/ text file or the edited proxy video to Kodak who then TK only your selected takes to 2-4K resolution as .dng sequence or prores with synced audio - then they send you the master files via download link or physical drive. A collaboration with Resolve could make the software side really sing - also allowing LUT to be loaded onto the video assist on the camera to show how your selected stock will look when processed. Since you'd also have your processed camera negative, you would also have a physical master of your rushes.

I hope this Super 8 buzz starts some kind of revival, film can look amazing when selected for the appropriate project. But I fear that unless a professional range of hybrid cameras get released as a follow up, film will remain an increasing rarity for the average Joe to contemplate shooting on for anything other than short form projects. The simple fact of the matter is - no new film cameras are being made anymore, Aaton, Arri and Panavision silently stopped making them a few years ago.

If Kodak collaborated with Arri on a 2perf 35mm, I'd expect many people would want to buy or rent. Below is a reminder of 2perf loveliness - a hybrid camera could deliver this quality, in a more 'digitally friendly' workflow that a younger generation of crew have only experienced working with. It would at least give an additional option for celluloid capture....and if embraced enough may be able to be made as a cost effective rival to modest budget productions.

 

 

 

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Crazy thing is that 35mm's are often cheaper than S16 kits now - as its more economical to shoot the smaller gauge. I knew that the film camera business had officially died when I saw a 435 sell on eBay than less than a new 5Dmk3 :(

 

image.jpeg

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Mattias here is a film from Dagie Brundert shot in Stockholm. Dagie is a stunning artist. Her work is very interesting, inspiring and experimental. There is so much you can do with film (during process, mishandling,creating installations with projectors and loops). Most of the people just don't get what film is all about. I recently had an argument with a documentary filmmaker: She used such a Super-8 plugin and said: 'looks like  super 8'... It's pathetic! 

https://vimeo.com/143934570

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 'looks like  super 8'... It's pathetic!

I think people who say that have never shot S8 and had it properly scanned… 

A huge factor is the awesome par focal lens and the frame shutter. I love it when people play up the whip pans, soft focus, etc. This seriously has a home movie feel that would be hard to replicate something else. 

They definitely do 4k scans now that would be better than this, but the content is cool.

 

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I think people who say that have never shot S8 and had it properly scanned… 

Yes definitely one of the factors for the low quality S8 stuff out there. Another being inexperience of the user :) 

A huge factor is the awesome par focal lens and the frame shutter. I love it when people play up the whip pans, soft focus, etc. This seriously has a home movie feel that would be hard to replicate something else. 

@Ed David tried to replicated the S8 look with some old camera here:

Global shutter, noise, punchy color, aspect ratio, deep DoF, no stabilization, crashed blacks and whites, can be used to get close to the S8 look with digital cameras. I will try give it a try with my A7rii and see how close I can get it. In 720p crop it has a 4ms rolling shutter and coupled with a c-mount lens can give interesting old style results.

 

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the 8mm film stock has the same colour and highlight rolloff as the film stock used for interstellar, hateful 8, and the master.

Using a given film stock and standard processing, there is less color depth in 8mm as there is in 65/70mm, due to 8mm's lower resolution.  Although the latitude (film's capture "dynamic range") will be the same between 8mm and larger formats, the highlight "rolloff" in 8mm will have fewer shades/colors due to its reduced color depth/resolution.

 

By the way, note that with film we have color depth but no bit depth.

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