Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
docmoore

Color is so overrated

Recommended Posts

EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Really nice. I love B&W. My favorite part of my NX500 is 4K downscaled to 1080p black and white. Without a doubt it looks better than any other "look."

Is the 1080p downscaled from a 4K or 6k sensor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it is a FF mono sensor without a Bayer array ... in the M Type 246 a CMOS 24 mp sensor ... no HDMI on camera so internal

capture to SD card. Much better than I hoped for ... internal mono mic but very sensitive ... you can add a stereo mic to the hotshoe

but I will probably run an external recorder and sync when it is critical.

My next test will be with Zeiss Oti lenses on adapters .

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really handles the contrast well. The shot of your formal living room/ parlor was breathtaking. I felt like I was watching an old movie. Would love to see a Hitchcockian scene/film shot with that camera.

Please, keep us updated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a world where we have so much horrible light in our environment (low quality led lights, nasty discharge bulbs, energy saving, neon etc), monochrome is a escape from it all.  I think with the way available light night time scenes look nowadays, I'd probably discard the colour vision from my eyes during night time all together.  it looks better in b+w imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I am thinking of shooting a b&w project next. Any tips? 

(Normal bayer cameras, will just remove colour in-camera or in-post) 

Somethig I always find a mistake in B&W shooting is low contrast. Instead of black and white, there's only gray. Which makes it all look dull. There should be black and should be white. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amen! In black & white footage there should be black & white!

I'd probably shoot in color, for a bit more post-processing flexibility converting to black & white. The E-M1 actually has a nifty feature where you can actually dial in how the black & white should react to the colors which is quite interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO FilmConvert B&W stocks are quite nice so for me there is no need to shoot B&W in camera... if I remember correctly there are 5 film stocks from low to very high contrast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am thinking of shooting a b&w project next. Any tips? 

(Normal bayer cameras, will just remove colour in-camera or in-post) 

Somethig I always find a mistake in B&W shooting is low contrast. Instead of black and white, there's only gray. Which makes it all look dull. There should be black and should be white. 

Black and white needs proper exposure and focusing, errors will stand out more than in Color. By errors I mean that if you nail it, it looks great, if you don't it looks "only gray".

In fact, not only exposure and focusing errors will stand out, but also every single aspect of the image. If you shoot something without contrast, there will be only gray, in color you have colors, maybe the face is warmer the rest is blue and it will pass as a low contrast image, in black in white it will be just gray. When you have a lot of white, it also looks crap,etc...

When we talk about that cinematic comes from proper lighting, composing,etc... and not so much the gear it's because in color these differences between poor and good carft don't stand out that much (if they would stand out that much we wouldn't be talking about it and take it for granted), in black and white it's more obvious. You need to have a wide range of tonalities, proper lighting, proper blacks, highlights in the right place, faces have to be in the very right spot of exposure and eyes need the white specular point, if they don't have it people will look dead (this is true always, but repeating it again, in black and white it's obligatory).

 

If you have a true monocrome sensor you can use color filters, they will be part of the "lighting".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem the Lieca M solves is getting a full-spectrum brightness at each pixel, in contrast to the bayer sensor which samples either R,G,B at each pxiel.  However, when a bayer downsamples 4 pixels, it has the same information as 1 pixel in the M.  Therefore, the real advantage of the M is getting HIGH RESOLUTION black and white images without spectrum distortions, essentially.  Using the M as a video camera, which must sample down to 2K, gives it no real advantages.  Indeed, the footage shot looks very soft to me.  

Taking photos and putting them into a film would have given much better results. Video compression favors motion over single image IQ.  

You might do another video where you compile it from photso taken.  I'd love to see it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

When we talk about that cinematic comes from proper lighting, composing,etc... and not so much the gear it's because in color these differences between poor and good carft don't stand out that much (if they would stand out that much we wouldn't be talking about it and take it for granted), in black and white it's more obvious. You need to have a wide range of tonalities, proper lighting, proper blacks, highlights in the right place, faces have to be in the very right spot of exposure and eyes need the white specular point, if they don't have it people will look dead (this is true always, but repeating it again, in black and white it's obligatory).

 

If you have a true monocrome sensor you can use color filters, they will be part of the "lighting".

I shot the video with a B&W MRC Yellow Filter to give a bit more separation and contrast.

 

Bob

 

The problem the Lieca M solves is getting a full-spectrum brightness at each pixel, in contrast to the bayer sensor which samples either R,G,B at each pxiel.  However, when a bayer downsamples 4 pixels, it has the same information as 1 pixel in the M.  Therefore, the real advantage of the M is getting HIGH RESOLUTION black and white images without spectrum distortions, essentially.  Using the M as a video camera, which must sample down to 2K, gives it no real advantages.  Indeed, the footage shot looks very soft to me.  

Taking photos and putting them into a film would have given much better results. Video compression favors motion over single image IQ.  

You might do another video where you compile it from photso taken.  I'd love to see it!

The lens ... VC 35 1.4 SC is an older design with single coating on the element to give it a fairly low contrast look .... the video was shot at F4 and a lot of the softness is due to the restricted DOF with the FF sensor. Yes the sensor is stellar for single photos and loses a bit as video but the dynamic range persists. I added no sharpening in post as I thought that the look seemed fairly organic and did not border on the brittle look that reflects oversharp artifacts. 

This was a 10 minute deal after 3 straight days of constant rain and just a trial of the camera in video mode. 

I hope to put my Wooden Camera cage on it in order to mount it to my video tripod and use a few different lenses ... 55 and 85 Otus and Rich's DSO FF 38 58 88 for sharpness and flare effects. I am a bit disappointed that I do not have a HDMI out on the camera although I was surprised at how sensitive the internal mic is.

I may get a chance to try single shot photos into film and am sure that the native resolution of the sensor will be better seen there.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am thinking of shooting a b&w project next. Any tips? 

(Normal bayer cameras, will just remove colour in-camera or in-post) 

Here are two bayer camera conversions to mono .... one platinum one BW

 

https://vimeo.com/126310967

 

https://vimeo.com/123793047

 

Both Password : daysend

 

Bob

So a couple of stills to demonstrate the resolution of the camera....

 

IMG_20151123_0214-FrameShop.thumb.jpg.8b

 

IMG_20151110_0100-Edit-FrameShop.thumb.j

 

IMG_20151113_0169-FrameShop.thumb.jpg.26

 

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amen! In black & white footage there should be black & white!

I'd probably shoot in color, for a bit more post-processing flexibility converting to black & white. The E-M1 actually has a nifty feature where you can actually dial in how the black & white should react to the colors which is quite interesting.

Correct, to create an appealing B&W result you have to manipulate contrast in order to bring out the important parts of the image. If you don't then it appears "flat and lifeless". Color mixer inside camera or in post can get there much easier than with a true B&W camera that you *will* have to use physical filters and adjust contrast in post. 

The nice thing about setting B&W in camera versus post processing is that it is easier for the codec and you get much much better results like that. I had no problem pushing the E-M1 to the max iso (3200) like that, whereas with color you would get really bad resolution and macroblocking. 

Here is an interesting review of the MM from Ming Thein. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Color may be overrated, but I'm afraid I don't see anything compelling about the black and white images you've posted - they seem soft and grey and lack any interest for me. I did however just finish watching a fabulous film that uses B&W creatively, A Woman Walks Home Alone at Night, but not once did I think while watching this marvelous vampire movie that color was somehow made redundant. I like color and I like B&W, and I often like the two together. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't be afraid to crush your blacks, but don't clip your highlights. Film, especially black and white, has real 100% black, but an incredible highlight tail. This will produce the most a natural image with striking contrast. Depending on the project, try and use shadows as graphic elements in your frame. And don't be afraid of subtlety. Not every shot has to be a melodramatic Sin City still frame--low contrast B&W can be as immersive and powerful as high-contrast. Just remember, even in a low-contrast scene, to include one very bright element and one very dark element to give the viewer a sense of relative contrast within the other tones. If you do a straight desaturation, you're working with luminance information only, which makes your lighting absolutely critical. You'll probably want to use harder light than you're used to, or the image will feel a little "undefined." 

Let me know if I can offer any other pointers. B&W is something of a passion for me. As usual, the best research is to go watch some great B&W movies and steal like an artist. :d

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...