herein2020

2024 is upon us and I have decided to look back before looking forward. How did everyone else's year turn out?

Work

2023 has been the busiest year I have ever had, I have shot an even wider variety of events than before as well as small projects such as photoshoots, social media content for clients, etc. This year even logging into this site was a luxury I rarely had. Next year looks like it will be the same as I continue to build a repeat client base across a wider spectrum of project types.

Gear

Each year my goal is to buy nothing and of course it did not work out that way for me. My biggest purchase this year was to build a new editing workstation. I was having real problems editing the H.265 10bit 422 footage that the R7 and R5 produce and time is money as they say; with so many jobs my workstation became the limiting factor. I ended up building a custom workstation with a Core i9 CPU, 24 cores, 128GB of memory, NVME drives, and RTX 4080 GPU. Most importantly I made sure that the CPU I selected supported QuickSync which can hardware accelerate H.265 10bit 422 footage. This setup with Davinci Resolve finally fixed my Fusion and footage lags once and for all.

I also now have access to AV1 with the new CPU which produces almost lossless footage quality. I thought it was going to be a great new codec to use; until I found out Vimeo does not support it even though they say they do (my first AV1 upload to Vimeo stuttered horribly and was unwatchable), and on YouTube the user has to specifically enable it in their profile to enable AV1 playback. I will still probably always upload to my personal YT channel using AV1 but for clients I will need to stick with H.265 or H.264.

As many of you already know, my setup is now 100% Canon; R7 (Photo/Video), R5 (Photos), C70(Video) and I use them in that order from a frequency standpoint. The R7 has exceeded my expectations in every way (battery life, Image Quality, reliability, photos, video, rigging options). The R5 is a bit of a disappointment, 95% photos, sometimes a B cam for the R7, or a C cam for the R7 and C70. I probably would be better off with two R7's and the C70 but it is too late now.

C70 

The C70 is great when locked down on a tripod and especially for long form with XLR audio as an A cam. I am far from a pixel peeper, but for me when looking at the footage after a shoot, its always a bit of a disappointment. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it always seems flatter and duller than the R7 or R5 even though they are all set to CLOG3.  I personally think it is a combination of the Canon speedbooster and the Canon EF 24-105 F4 lens that lives on it as well as the fact that I have little or no control over the lighting for most of the events that I shoot. The 24-105mm is underwhelming in all areas, but I just can't seem to find a better lens for the C70; something like the Tamron 35-150mm F2-2.8 I think would be a better lens for the C70 but that's not an option in EF mount.

I think the 24-105mm combined with the speedbooster does something to the contrast and saturation that is hard to recover in post. Also, the slightest bit of direct light and the image washes out very quickly due to the speedbooster; and when I say direct light I don't mean direct sunlight, I'm talking even shooting concerts and music videos the image washes out terribly from DJ or music video lights. Needless to say, my setup is not doing the C70 any favors, but as a OMB my setup times are already long as it is. I am thinking about switching to a native RF lens for the C70 but that would be an expensive endeavor. The Canon RF 24-105mm F2.8 is $3K....insanity, it would probably greatly improve the C70's IQ but do nothing for its reach.

R5

The 30min recording limit pretty much kills it for anything long form which eliminates it as ever being an A cam even if overheating weren't a concern (which it still is to me). I do shoot b roll clips in a pinch with it or go with the C70 and R7 locked down and shoot the R5 handheld but its rare that I need all 3. The EVF has so much latency that I still miss my 5D4 for photography action shots. Other than the EVF lag, it is great for photography.

R7

I've said enough praises about it, but I do find myself thinking a lot about FF equivalency these days when picking up the R7 (more on that in a moment). To my eyes; the IQ out of the R7 and R5 are identical until the R5's second native ISO kicks in, but if the ISO needs to be that high I am in trouble anyway. These days I use an F7 panel light and pretty much never have to go above ISO800 with the R7 combined with the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 EF-S lens.

Stability

I shoot almost exclusively handheld now. Many projects I don't even bring the gimbal and the few times that I do, I hate everything about it and either don't use it or only use it for one or two shots (long form speedramps mostly). The R7's IS is great, and I no longer try to emulate fancy YT camera movements, I let the action do the moving and just slightly follow it with the camera work. For very short walks (backwards or forwards) I am stable enough combined with IS and sometimes DR warp stabilization that I can pull it off, but needing to walk really isn't as common as you would think for the projects that I shoot.

vND Meike Adapter

My favorite accessory of all time for the R7 and pretty much any camera I have ever owned has become the vND Meike adapter. No more fiddling with lens ND filters, it is nothing short of amazing. It does add a slight green cast to the footage but it is an even cast, no dreaded X pattern or variable cast. In post I just add 20 to the magenta slider in Davinci Resolve and its fixed. Sometimes the green is complimentary, and IMO gives it a higher end look so depending on the situation I will leave it. 

My only complaint with the filter is it does not go to zero stops of ND so if you are running back and forth from inside to outside for an event you have to accommodate the 2 stops when you are indoors by raising the ISO. It is also very easy to bump the little wheel and there are no numbers or steps on it to set it precisely to where it was before.

FF Equivalency

Over the course of this past year I have spent more time than I would like thinking about FF equivalency but not in the way most people do. I personally think the FF "look" is a myth, I have no clue when looking at a shot if it was a FF sensor or not.

When I personally think about FF equivalency it is from a lighting perspective. Before arriving at a new venue for a project I always worry that there won't be enough light available and all of my F2.8 FF lenses are no longer F2.8 on the R7 and the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 usually isn't long enough for back of the room type of long form content (dance recitals, corporate events, holiday shows, etc.) so I usually use the RF 70-200mm F2.8 on the R7 for B cam work. The R7 also does not have a second native ISO so it gets noisy pretty quickly after 1600ISO.

Those situations and the fact that 60FPS is line skipped (in both the R7 and the R5) sometimes makes me wonder if the R6 II would be as good of a fit for me as the R7. So far the R7 has delivered on every project and my concerns about lighting were overblown, but I feel like its the one thing that adds stress to my day when arriving at a new venue for a new project where I have no control over the lighting.

2024 Demo Reel

I also created a new Demo Reel for 2024. This was shot across many years, projects, and camera eco systems. No matter how busy you are, you still need to keep those new customers coming in so I decided to start off the year with a demo reel.

Below are all of the cameras that I think I used for the footage in this video. I also uploaded this video using AV1 to YT.

Cameras - Canon R7, R5, C70, S5, GH5, C200, R6, GoPro 8

Drones: DJI P4, Mavic Pro, Autel EVO II

9 hours ago, kye said:

Ah, I'm with you.

When I read your previous post I thought somehow that you were using both cameras simultaneously on the same head, and that other heads weren't up to having two cameras mounted at the same time.  It makes more sense if you have them mounted separately.  

I occasionally would like to capture multiple FOVs simultaneously from the same setup, but it's not something easily done or rigged up.

With long form content they kind of expect it, I also added Tentacle Sync to my multi-cam workflow because Davinci Resolve isn't very good at aligning tracks based on audio waveform. In this regards I feel like Premier did a better job. TC is awesome though, one click and perfect alignment across dozens of clips instantly. It makes multi-cam so easy that I have been thinking about picking up another R7 for a locked down mid shot but then I would have to rig it, more batteries, another tripod, etc.....not worth it.

4 hours ago, ntblowz said:

R7 is the underappreciated camera of the year.

I sold my R7 earlier then bought it back again cause it is the only one in the price range that offer long 4k recording without worrying about overheating and offer 32MP stills which is perfect for hybrid setup, when paired with Sigma 18-35 1.8 the image is quite nice.

 

That's the exact reason why I feel comfortable pairing it with the C70, no overheating concerns. I also use that same Sigma 18-35 1.8 religiously. Before the R7 came along I literally forgot I owned it and discovered that I already had it when I was re-arranging my camera gear. Now it lives on my R7 for any lowlight hybrid event work. For daylight hybrid work I typically use the Canon EF 24-105mm and the Meike vND RF adapter.  That combination is perfect for daylight hybrid work.

I have also changed my workflow so that my images are all shot at ISO800 even in the daylight when shooting hybrid. It was just too much hassle to fiddle with the ND filter and ISO for fast events since ISO800 is native for CLOG3. The R7's images are clean at ISO800 day or night so it lives at that ISO. Also the Meike vND does not have numbered markings so you have to watch the histogram each time to properly expose....way too much fiddling in the middle of an event.

I've had to run the R7 for 3hrs straight with one 30s battery change and it had no problems. I will caveat that with the fact that it will start to overheat after about an hour in 4k Fine (7K oversampled) mode, so it needs to be line skipped but my clients can't tell the difference.

24 minutes ago, kye said:

Why use dual cameras?  One wider angle and one tighter angle?  What types of shots would you use this for?

Yes, I typically have the C70 as my A camera locked down with XLR input from the mixer and the Canon EF 24-105mm on it with a speed booster and the R7 is my B camera with the RF 70-200mm F2.8 on it. I track the peak action with the R7 and discovered none of my current tripod heads are smooth enough when punched in at 300mm+ to smoothly track moving objects so I had to get a better fluid head. The Sachtler Ace XL Fluid Head did the trick after buying and sending back two other brands. I have shot everything from opera performances to music videos to dance recitals this year with that setup. 

I really have no plans for 2024, this year has been a steady stream of a wide variety of jobs, possibly one of my busiest yet as repeat customers keep repeating and new customers keep showing up. 

As far as gear goes, I never thought I would like a crop sensor so much but every camera that I own other than the R7 is gathering dust right now. I would say 80% of the jobs this year were hybrid photo video jobs and nothing in my kit is better at that than the R7. Social media is really prioritizing video these days and my setup is perfect for social media content as well as editorial and some light commercial work.

I still love the C70 but its useless for hybrid jobs and so is the R5. I did pick up two Tascam DR-10L Pros for 32 bit float audio recording and a new tripod with a Sachtler head because I shot a lot of dual camera projects and needed a better video head for tracking the talent but that's it.

So for next year I plan on no new kit whatsoever and really just keep focusing on keeping my current customers happy while occasionally taking on new work where it makes sense. 

5 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Canon R6 II has micro hdmi.😂 Didn´t know that. If PDAF is mandatory and if happy with Open Gate 6K, Full Frame 4K 24-30p and S35 4K 50/60p, one might just as well buy a Lumix S5 used for 800 EUR. 🙂

Even the R3 is micro HDMI, hard to believe but its true.

5 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Yes it can, I been doing in camera recording multi cam livestream with Canon many times on R7, R5 and now R8 beside C70 and R5C.

 

Don't choose the camera +hdmi option period if u need recording in camera 

 

 

You are right, it does work if you select external monitor only. For me only the R5 and C70 work the way that I think it "should" work, but at the end of the day you can livestream and record internally with the R7 with a clean HDMI feed  and it probably works the same way for the R6II.

So for me, its back to the original cripple hammer problem which is the micro HDMI port, just the two times I plugged in the HDMI cable to test this feature felt like I was going to break the port. I can kind of understand no full HDMI port on the R7, but the R6II and R5? Really Canon? My Canon Rebel has a better HDMI port than the R5.

Very interesting find, I tested with my R7 and it does the same thing, if anything is connected to the HDMI port it disables internal recording. I then tested with the R5 and it will record internally while the HDMI cable is connected but it has that ridiculous 30 min time limit. The C70 of course has neither of these limitations.

I don't use an external monitor with the R7 so I had no idea it has this limitation. Canon really knows how to screw you in strange and mysterious ways. The only way that I can think of to do what you want to do is with an external recorder that is also a monitor but IMO that is a PITA with the micro-HDMI port since it is so flimsy.

I have been shooting more long form content lately and I was actually considering using an external monitor with the R7 when it is locked down on a tripod to see the screen better, but I decided against it due to the micro HDMI port, now I realize it won't work at all due to the Canon cripple hammer.

For streaming, there is no way to use the WiFi to do it? I don't ever turn on the WiFi so I am not familiar with its capabilities but I thought there was a way with a laptop to connect directly to the camera and have the video stream sent to the laptop.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

It is very important to know your place and understand your concept completely, in the pro world.

That is number one.

I recently did a documentary series with young directors (one director each 25minutes episodes), almost all of them did more than 5 hours interviews! that was too much for the project, the concept behind it, and the budget.

As of the technical stuff. When I was doing such work I always shot 50p (more is just too much) and used whatever technique I considered appropriate. A few timelapses and hyperlapses were good transition tricks also. Speedramp also. Whatever..

I think that is the biggest first lesson to learn when shooting for someone other than yourself is; don't fall in love with your own footage. We have all shot a shot that looks so perfect we want to show the world the whole thing so we let it run a little bit too long; but the reality is no one else cares about that shot except you and by letting it run too long you start to lose your audience. I still find myself doing it occasionally and I have to remind myself to stay aligned with what the customer wants, not what I like the best.

Ground hyperlapses is one thing I have never done. I've done simulated ones where I shoot 6/7K images then keyframe camera motion, but a true hyperlapse where the camera is moving I have never done. I think it looks really impressive and would look good in events but it just seems like it would take so much time and the other problem would be all the people upset that you are not talking to them or taking their picture while trying to stick to the hyperlapse path.

14 hours ago, kye said:

While we're talking about event shooting... 

What are people's attitudes towards slow-motion and speeding things up (timelapses)?  I'm curious from the point-of-view of the edit, rather than just the logistics of shooting them.  

@herein2020 already talked about shooting 60p in case you need to stretch footage in post, which is an obvious use of this and makes total sense in the context of social-media event hype trailer style videos.  This could be sort-of an "invisible" use where it's not so obvious (or visible at all), but things like 120p conformed to 24p or time-lapses are a lot more obvious.

Do you find they have a place in your edits?

I'm asking because I'm contemplating what place they have, if any, in my edits, and looking for opinions....

I sometimes use time lapses or hyper lapses to help tell the story. I mainly only use hyperlapses with drone work and occasionally timelapses to show a setup, or for dramatic effect such as to show the sky rolling across the horizon.

I have a dedicated Canon Rebel T6s that I use just for timelapses, it has incredible battery life with the dual grip handle (over 2,000 images in one timelapse once and it still had over 50% battery life remaining), plus I don't want that high shutter count on one of my more expensive cameras, additionally I like to set up my timelapse camera somewhere and leave it while I go shoot other content so there's the theft concern as well. Lastly, it is blazing hot here in the summer and it has never once overheated during a timelapse so its a great little timelapse camera.

Many times I have lugged the timelapse camera with me planning on setting up a quick 15min timelapse to use as the opening or closing for the video and many times it's just a not a good fit, either there's no place I feel is safe enough to leave it while I do other things, or the sky is completely cloudless so it would be a wasted effort, etc. 

As far as where in the edit I tend to find them the most useful, for me its usually the very beginning opening sequence or the closing i.e. a timelapsed sunset is a nice closing shot especially in places where I cannot use the drone. But without the right conditions (cloudy skies, progressive changes, etc.) timelapses aren't worth the time or effort to me.

When editing 60FPS on a 30FPS timeline I do occasionally only slow down say the last few seconds of a longer 5 or 10s clip, just enough to stretch it to the jump point which keeps the rest of the clip real time while getting it to the logical jump point, also sometimes I combine 60FPS with optical flow to drop all the way down to 25% to simulate 120FPS without actually shooting 120FPS if I want truly slow motion; this effect followed by a speedramp can be quite dramatic.  I know purists may say optical flow isn't "pure" enough slow motion, but in DR with the right settings it does a really good job depending on the content being slowed down.

13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Well I used to shoot all my events at 50p so I had the option of real time at up to 50% slow motion and my productions were typically 1/5th real time and 4/5th slo mo.

That’s all changing from next week as I’m switching to shooting 30p + 60p despite being in a PAL region.

30 is my new go to after research and testing with 60 being my option and productions will now be approx:

1/5th in real time + 1/5th at 40% + 3/5ths at 80% + probably squeezing in a flowing timelapse or two + some slow shutter drag stuff from late on.

Throwing the kitchen sink at it?

I decided years ago to stick to 30FPS and 60FPS for all of my work unless the client specified 24FPS, or PAL....for me it eliminates all of the conformance issues and reduces the problems with pans, eliminates the jittery look, etc. etc. I figured out long ago I will never be a Hollywood feature film videographer so the 30FPS delivery framerate looks the best with the least amount of work to me.

On 5/12/2023 at 10:10 AM, Django said:

Not really talking of sneaking in but there are places like churches, cathedrals, museums here in Europe where walking in like you stepped out of the Terminator set just isn't an option no matter who your client is. Certain countries while running & gunning may also require discretion or extra permits. Obviously a whole different thing if your covering Coachella!

It's actually great you bring up geography/terrain because I feel that's really the key difference of your lens setup and preference vs others like mine. I live and work in Paris, France. Corporate, art, retail, fashion & music. Venues/locations are usually quite small. I work in tight spaces most of the time, I also like to blend in and move around so the more light/discrete the better. That's I guess why primes and wide to medium zooms work for me. No real need for big tele. 

Yes you are right, the same goes for here, certain churches don't allow flashes during weddings, many events/venues don't let you bring anything even resembling a professional camera on their property or in their venue unless you get approval first which of course is nearly impossible to get. For places that are that bad, I just tell my client that I refuse to film there. These days I don't really do the tourist thing anymore but if I did even the R7 would probably be too big for venues like that. 

I didn't even think about the smaller size of the venues there. I have been to Europe a few times and each time, the smaller size of everything was the first thing I had to get used to. By comparison most things in America seem large to the point of being wastefully excessive. Events are the same way, most events are in huge venues with large crowds and the zoom lenses really help close those gaps. I think with smaller venues I would be more likely to consider primes or something like the 24-70 F2.8. I guess that's why it was hard for me to even imagine some of the lens choices that people were making here when I was thinking about the amount of space I need to cover in my typical event. I have even used the 70-200 on occasion because things were just so far away or so high up that the 105 wasn't long enough for me to capture the level of detail that I wanted. BTW the 70-200 RF F2.8 is incredibly stable handheld even at 200mm way more so than the EF version ever was.

On 5/14/2023 at 2:12 PM, mercer said:

Point being... there are always compromises with run and gun. 

Its funny, I don't look at them as compromises at all as long as you deliver something the client is willing to pay for. At the end of the day it is just photos and video footage, to me it's only a compromise if you compare it to something else you could have done or some other equipment you could have used, but if the client is pleased with the final product then I consider that as having picked the right equipment for the job even if that client happens to be yourself.

Sure you could have picked a sharper lens, shot with a higher resolution camera, used a gimbal instead of handheld, etc. etc. but none of those things mattered in the end so I don't consider not using those things to be a compromise.

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Agree with everything, just add to this my experience.

For me, even the 105 is sometimes limiting, that is why I prefer the 18-135 EF-S for Canon S35 (or APSC) run and gun, and that is why usually I go with the Olympus 12-100mm 4f..

I do cover the whole spectrum of moving images (from mainstream drama, to indie documentaries) so I understand what everyone says.

My last jobs were a feature film (I did sound) that we used just cine primes, a documentary with Pocket 4K cameras and the 12-100, Alexa TV ad (did sound), another one with 4K/6K cameras (did sound) and Sigma EF (18-35, 50-150), TV show with GH6 and 12-100mm, a theater/music performance (GH5+BlackMagic cameras with Olympus lenses), Canon C300mkIII + C70, a couple projects with Sony cameras, e.t.c...

I agree, the 105 can fall a bit short at times but that's the power of APS-C, I can double that 105 end to 300mm with the R7 + crop mod; it really was a genius addition by Canon and I am not sure that any other APS-C camera offers an almost 3x crop like the R7. 

I couldn't deal with the 18-135 EF-S lens, I hate variable focal length lenses, for me they are way too unpredictable for event use, I would spend too much time fiddling with the vND filter to keep everything properly exposed and the background compression would be harder to do at F5.6.

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

There is no ONE style of preferred setup. Depending the job and the project you have to adapt. It is a lot different to work on a scripted short, a verite documentary, a TV ad on Alexa, a live performance..

If you cover something, is more important to have the right moments than have just a few of them with great style..in the end, the content is more important than the form.

Of course you try to have a great balance of those, but first be sure you cover the basics and then add some artistic style if you can.

That is definitely true, I think this particular thread was focused more on event work since the OP asked about shooting an event. I do not cover as wide of a spectrum as you do, maybe if you include all of the photography work that I do as well but not video; but I definitely have a variety of setups depending on the projects requirements (photo only - R5, Photo/Video R7, Video only C70 or R7, etc, etc.) along with the different lens setups depending on what is needed along with audio, lighting, effects, props, etc. 

55 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Well try and get your heads around this one…

Given the choice of my 28-70 f2.8 or my 24-105 f4, I’ll take the 28-70 every time.

Why? 

Size, weight, minimal extension of zoom but perhaps more importantly, actual focal lengths.

24 is a bit wide for me as a medium wide and I prefer 28 or 35 but in recent years, I have settled on 28 as it’s about the sweet spot for not making stuff look out of proportion.

I get why some folks like 50mm but personally find it a bit too ordinary/boring so prefer 65/70.

105 is a bit ‘meh’ to me either being not much longer than 90 (which is my other principal lens/focal length) but well short of 150+ which is what I’d ideally need for longer stuff.

So 28-70 used only at 28 or 70 is about 85% of my (stills) work these days with the other 15% split approx <5% 16mm and 10% 90.

For video, simples, as above x1.5…although having said that, I am going to be trialling 6k 30p ‘open gate’ in a couple of weeks, as long as I can control/get around any flicker/banding.

Why not just go with PAL standard 25p? No option for slow mo…which I am moving away from a little by going for a milder 80% instead of 50% ie, 30 on a 24 timeline.

And having said all of that, my ideal focal length lens would be that Tamron 35-150 which would combine 2 bodies down to one, but that would mean switching systems to Sony or Nikon. And I’ve looked, but not!

In the end, we’re all different and have different needs and tastes 😬

All very true, for me 24mm on the R7 is actually around 35mm so we are on the same page there, but for me I use the 105mm end (around 155mm) FF equiv for background compression for detail shots and also for reach at the long end. I would say that I spend maybe 50% of my time below 70 but the full 50% of the rest of the time I am above 70, that's just how often I need take detail shots which is where I use background compression since F4 isn't particularily fast, and also where I am far enough away from the action to the point that I need the longer focal lengths for a quick shot or I want to punch in and fill the frame with some activity.

At the type of events that I shoot, the clients expect a full compliment of detail shots of the vendor's wares and that's when I use the long end for background compression. To me the 24-105 at 105 looks better when taking detail shots vs the 24-70 at 70. 

I also shoot almost exclusively handheld these days and the Canon 24-70 does not have IS where as the Canon 24-105 does so that's another plus.

42 minutes ago, Django said:

Fun thread, always neat reading other peoples perspectives when it comes to tools for certain jobs! I don't specialise in event coverage but I do have a few lined up this summer so interesting to get seasoned pros weighing in while I'm in active prep mode.

I agree, its great to hear other people's perspectives even when sometimes I don't understand them like the whole focal length matching what your eyes see thing 🤣. I totally get the math, and I get the logic, but I don't get the point. Background compression, composition, and lens speed is the only thing I consider when selecting a particular lens for a job but that's just me.

42 minutes ago, Django said:

Now obviously everyone has their own particular preferences when it comes to gear and lens choice in particular. I don't think there is a right/wrong way to do it just use what you're most comfortable with to get the job done. Zoom lenses seem most popular for event shooters for obvious reasons, I'm just not a big fan of them, especially wide range ones like the popular 24-105mm F4. While I understand the versatility of such lenses they are often big, heavy, slow & optically inferior. All concessions I'm usually not ready to make no matter the convenience. The 24-70mm f2.8 is imo a much better compromise but hey to each his own.

You are right, its all about personal preference, but I can tell you first hand, that I will take the 24-105 F4 literally any day over the 24-70 F2.8 for events unless light is an issue. On paper they may seem similar but when shooting events you have no idea what the subject to camera distance will be; sure you can crop for photos but if you are shooting photos and video cropping is not an option. So many times the peak action at an event is in the middle of a crowd, or up on a stage, or where I live across some body of water and you are too far away for a 24-70.

Yes the 24-105mm F4 is big, its slow, and its not particularly sharp, but it is absolutely fantastic in every other way specifically for events, especially the Canon EF version since it also has lens IS. Modern cameras with crop mode options make it even more useful. On my R7 that lens turns into an approximately 35mm - 160mm FF equivalent and with the crop mode enabled that stretches all the way to 300mm and yes at some events I have needed every bit of it. 

My clients typically give me a shot list that is many times multiple pages and they expect wide, medium, and closeups of most of it or at least I do. There's no way to predict ahead of time how many people, obstacles, or even geography will be in the way until the time comes.  I mention geography because where I live water is literally everywhere both manmade and natural, its not uncommon for me to have to shoot over a small body of water or around water fountains, etc. 

In the old days the standard setup for event photographers was two bodies one with a 24-70 and the other with a 70-200, I can now cover 35-300mm with a single body. Sure its F4, but most events that I cover are in the daylight anyway, night/lowlight events are more intimate anyway so a faster but shorter range is not unreasonable for night events.

As far as primes go, I literally can't imagine shooting an event with primes, any event for that matter. When working one on one it is easy to just backup or get closer to get proper framing, with a fast or even slow moving event you just don't know how crowded it will be, how much space there will be to move around, exactly where the action will be, etc. In many situations you simply don't have the time or space to properly compose a shot with a prime or at least that's my experience. Sure I could do it, but it would definitely lower my content rate; anything that I know will lower my hourly photo or video rate I stay away from. In my proposals I write in my minimum hourly capture rate for photos based on the video requirements, type of event, etc. so anything that will make that capture rate harder to hit I stay away from. 

1 hour ago, Django said:

Also flash photography was mentioned and there is nothing wrong with that either, it can be quite creative other than having a functional purpose.

Flash is another thing that I always use at events unless the sun goes down and after that I always use a panel light even if there is enough ambient light to not need it. I approach my flashes like I do my lens choice, I never know what the lighting conditions will be or when the subject will be backlit and need fill lighting so I never shoot without a flash in the daytime. The vND filter greatly helps here, since my video is set to ISO800 for CLOG3 I typically set the photo side to ISO640 and the fill flash to 1/8 then dial in the vND so that the video is properly exposed; switching over to photos the subject is perfectly exposed via the fill flash while ensuring the flash becomes the key light by slightly under exposing the ambient which removes color casts and makes the subject "pop" a bit. Totally different from how I shoot in the studio.

For lowlight events I switch over to the fastest zoom that I have and use a panel light for fill. The biggest problem with uncontrollable low light that no one seems to talk about isn't the noise, it is the color casts from the ambient light sources; every possible shade of white lighting as well as non-white sources such as purple, green, blue, etc, these all affect skin tones terribly so I use my panel light and sync my WB with my panel light's Kelvin temp and have perfect skin tones every time because my panel light becomes the key light. Of course it also lets me keep my ISO at the native video ISO, but I care more about ugly color casts on the subject's skin more so than noise since any modern camera is great in the noise department.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

That's my point. You get stuck at the back of a cathedral with permission to shoot from there and only there and your only lens is a 28mm...

A word beginning with F and rhyming with duck comes to mind 🤪

Absolutely, or any scenario where you get stuck too far from the subject to compose the shot the way you want to. With zoom lenses plus the extra crop reach I don't really have this problem these days.  I have noticed a trend though where I seem to get farther and farther away from the action for one reason or the other; it feels like post COVID events are bigger and more crowded making it more challenging to get as close as I would like.

9 minutes ago, Django said:

Oh for sure although generally speaking one could argue that an inconspicuous compact rangefinder setup like this..

just might grant you closer access in certain situations than coming in loaded like this:

Not really an option I know as a wedding photog but sometimes less is more! 😉 

🤣 Actually these days in the LOOK AT ME EVERYONE AND SEE HOW MUCH FUN I AM HAVING world, at events people love the bigger cameras, they love posing and showing off to show the rest of the world how much fun they are having. but yes, I have been rigged up like the second picture many times but thanks to modern bodies I feel like those days are mostly past. One body, a good zoom, a speedlight or panel light (daylight vs lowlight), a small sling bag for batteries and I am all set for nearly anything these days. 

Now if you are trying to sneak into an event and film candidly then yes, my rig would not be optimal.

On 5/10/2023 at 8:50 PM, kye said:

You've clearly never run a site or a business!

If you've never run a site then you'll have no idea how much effort goes into running it and maintaining it in the background.

Sites require constant maintenance as they are constantly under siege from spammers, hackers, new user requests etc.  Even if you disable comments and logins and all the Web 2.0 functionality you still need to update the software regularly or hackers will pWn your site and turn it into an ad for viagra or to support Putin.

That's the site, but to keep paying for it you need to have an active bank account and need to keep putting money in it.  That bank account was probably under a business name, and to keep that active you need to keep the business name active, which means filing tax returns and dealing with whatever other accounting and government tasks are required.

Did your business have anything else associated with it?  Offices, parking, permits?  You'll need to manage those things too.

The list is truly endless.  There's a good reason that social media sites like Medium or Wordpress or Facebook or YouTube are so popular - because maintaining your own platform is literally a full-time job.

@Chxfgb I agree 100% with @kye, I maintain my own website and some weeks I spend more time on it than actually shooting content. It needs updates nearly weekly, frequently the update will break something or change the look of something so I have to troubleshoot, Google changes their SEO algos so I have to try to keep up with that, the website needs to be backed up, backups need to be monitored to ensure they were successful, you have to monitor and renew your domain name before it expires, you have to monitor and renew your hosting plan before it expires, if you make one penny of revenue then state, local and feds govs all want to split that penny into non-equal parts while making sure that you get the smallest part of that parted penny, etc. etc. 

My site is relatively small, I can only imagine how much additional work would be needed for much larger sites. Also, the longer the site ran without new content the fewer visitors it would receive until it reached the point where the only ones viewing the content were the admins. Behind the scenes it was probably already close to being there anyway; the hardcore photography enthusiast demographic is exponentially shrinking and as it does sites like those will appeal less and less to whoever is left.

6 hours ago, kye said:

Yeah, marketing is tricky.  I suspect that these days all products are priced so that the "join today with the link below and get 10% off!" is actually the real price and by having every sales channel being careful to use their unique code you are basically adding traceability to your sales funnels.

You could recommend to the event organisers that each post they make in the marketing campaign feeds a unique ID to their sales funnel, that way they'd be able to get at least some sense of how many people saw the hype edit and then bought tickets.  Of course, lots would see the reel, then go to the main site later, or buy tickets through some other channel.

Do you deliver one edit, or a few?  I'm not sure how the economics goes, but maybe there's an opportunity for you to deliver one edit like you currently do, plus a few shorter teasers?  Once you've edited the normal edit you do, the other ones could all be based on a single shorter audio sequence (maybe just a single build up / release, and maybe only having 6-15 shots in total) and would all just include shots that were already in your normal edit.  You could feature only one sponsor in each of these teasers, and just edit these in bulk, replacing the sponsor on each one and replacing the crowd shots for identical but different shots.  If the sponsors were included in multiple videos (the main one and their own teaser) maybe the event organisers can do a better deal with the sponsors perhaps..  just a thought.

I don't recommend to organizers anything at all about how to actually use the videos/photos unless they ask. I learned years ago that they are nice enough people but most tend to take offense if you in any way try to tell them how to do any other area of their job. They are typically handling $1M+ worth of vendors, getting venue permits, managing sponsors, obtaining equipment, transportation, food, supplies, etc. etc; basically managing a massive project which is the event; they don't take kindly to advice from their photographer/videographer. if they hired me that's enough for me, how they run their business is their business unless they ask me for advice. Unsolicited advice is a quick way to not get re-hired the following year.

As far as multiple edits, it depends on what was in the proposal. I offer add-ons to every project such as social media orientation, multiple videos/edits, etc. but it all depends on their budget and what they are willing to pay for. A video per sponsor though wouldn't be feasible; that would take way too much time away from the rest of the event with minimal added value. Sponsors that want that typically pay for their own dedicated photographer/videographer or bring their own social media expert to provide 24/7 coverage of their participation in the event. As I mentioned earlier, content is king, there is no way you would get enough content to create a dedicated sponsor video when you are shooting a big event with hundreds of sponsors multiple buildings/tents to cover, speaking engagements, ticket sales coverage, etc. etc. I would rather create nothing, than something mediocre which would alienate the sponsors and would probably result in something they wouldn't even use all the while taking time away from your actual client who hired you to cover the whole event. 

Plenty of times smaller vendors/sponsors have complained if their setup didn't make it into the video and I tell them then hire me to cover your participation in the event and I will be your dedicated photographer/videographer.....to date not a single one has been willing to pay for their dedicated coverage. So at the end of the day they can complain but if they aren't a paying client then my focus will always be on making my paying client happy.

6 hours ago, kye said:

Social media people who are live posting images also have the potential to sell this years event by posting images from this years event, rather than a hype reel from last years event.  It's difficult to do that with video - have you seen the "same day edit" thing that some wedding videographers do where they show an edit of the wedding at the reception?  That's film-making at it's most extreme!

I have seen that, I don't think it would be that difficult to do if you had two people and a fast editing laptop; you would just hand off your media cards to your assistant, have an audio track ready to go in advance, probably just a basic ambient audio track and throw together some key moments from the grand entrance, ceremony, and venue shots. With a slow enough audio track you could easily stretch each clip to 12s or more which makes the edit much easier and since weddings are slow anyway it would all look natural. But the common theme here is always the budget; the budget would have to be healthy enough to pay for that assistant and that editing laptop. I could throw together a 5min edit like that in less than 30min as long as the laptop was fast enough to not have to wait for proxy media/import/export delays.

7 hours ago, kye said:

The other challenge that I have that you probably don't have is the size of the camera rig.  For example, if I'm using the GH5 out in public then it gets far more attention than the GX85.  Even the GX85 is less noticeable when it's got the 14mm pancake lens on it vs the 12-35/2.8.  In that sense, knowing how good the 2x digital zoom is matters because I'm pushing the equipment right to its limits because I can't just rig up more without creating issues in post (like people in the shot staring at me because they've noticed I'm filming).

That is true, I don't do any candid filming so to me the camera size doesn't matter. I only shoot candid videos when I first get a camera to test it out and for those situations I go to public places and use longer lenses to film far away people/crowds/subject matter or there's a few tourist spots nearby where everyone is filming everything so I will go there where it is no big deal.

7 hours ago, kye said:

60p would be great in that instance, but considering that most of my footage is normal speed, how would you suggest I conform the 60p onto a 24p timeline?  It would result in a 3:2 cadence, which I don't really like the idea of.  Plus my bitrate would be stretched significantly.  I'd contemplate shooting 48p but none of my cameras have that, which is unfortunate.  I'm also shooting on iPhone, GX85, and GH5, so they'd all have to have it.

I only deliver at 30FPS so for me 60FPS just gives me more options without conformance issues. I like to have the extra frames and not need them then need them and not have them but I don't deliver them I just shoot them. There are ways to conform 60fps to a 24p timeline but they are not as elegant as 60fps on a 30fps timeline.

7 hours ago, kye said:

I've also moved away from movement in my shots because I didn't really know what I was doing in the edit with them and they tended to restrict my options.  Now I mostly just try and hold the camera as steady as I can (considering it's so small).  I often have to add stabilisation in post and sometimes get frustrated with how much movement there was, but then I remember that I was freezing cold and the wind was howling and I was holding the camera at full arms-length, so there were reasons.  I've chased better stabilisation for years but have concluded now that anything I can do will make the camera larger (so the footage suffers in other ways) and whatever camera shake there is after the IBIS and my best efforts to hold it still is actually a reflection of what happened and so has a place in the final edit.  A nice smooth slider footage of an arctic base being blown away in a snowstorm wouldn't be the best aesthetic to convey the experience!

I have actually gone in the opposite direction, with the R7 the stabilization is so good that it does not feel realistic so I deliberately add slight camera movement just to give it more first person realism. I have also noticed how the IBIS actually gets in the way sometimes; I will add deliberate slight camera shake or movement and there will be a delay while the IBIS tries to smooth out the movement then it will suddenly catch up and the movement looks less natural than I intended. But yes, that level of stability is only obtained with a larger body, 3 points of stability and the side handle.

52 minutes ago, kye said:

I've developed the habit of hitting record on the camera prior to composing and focusing so that I can maximise the number of recorded usable frames that are available for the edit.

My process is typically:

• Carry camera around in hand, with wrist-strap for safety/security
• If I'm in an interesting spot, camera is on and kept awake (half-pressing the shutter every so often prevents it sleeping)
• When I see something I start to raise the camera from by my side, and I hit record on the way up
• I compose and focus as quickly as possible
• Record the shot

I find that even with this method I often end up with clips that have 1s of usable video in them once the focus and composition have been achieved, which are hard to use in an edit and had I been just 1s quicker I could have had a 2s clip and it would have been profoundly more useful in the edit.   I sometimes reframe in post slightly so I can use earlier frames if the camera was still moving a bit.  

Literally 1s matters.

A very easy trick to stretch that 1s to 2s is to simply shoot at 60FPS. I still use that trick to this day for some events because I won't know when I will need to stretch a clip to the proper audio breakpoint, of course not all footage lends itself to being slowed down but you would be amazed at how much useable footage you can get out of such a simple trick. 

Also another simple trick is I never use a wrist strap and only use a full shoulder strap, this lets me bring the camera up and immediately have 3 points of contact with the camera for added stability (left hand, right hand, camera strap) which when combined with IBIS helps increase useable content as well. There are also a lot of tricks you can do with a camera strap to mimic gimbal movements without a gimbal (crane, truck, etc.) for the few seconds that you need.

Last but not least, I always have a side handle and cage on my hybrid rig. This helps keep the horizon more stable and gives me mounting points for HW without using the camera's hotshoe which also gets me into a stable shooting position faster.

21 hours ago, kye said:

I can tell you, being someone who has never shot for a client, my "style" would likely involve not keeping the client happy, and based on some of the amateurish coverage I've seen online I think lots of working "pros" are also falling hugely short of hitting it out of the park, so if you're really delivering what the client wants then that's a big statement about your style right there 🙂 

I think a lot of what you see online these days looks the way that it does especially for events due to budget. It is very easy to find events to cover, it is even moderately easy to find events that will pay you to cover them; it is much harder to find event organizers that value the coverage enough to pay what it takes to hire someone who takes pride in their craft.  Many organizers want to pay next to nothing because the money they spend on the photographer/videographer comes directly out of their profits. Another challenge is the impact of the event footage is hard to measure from a marketing standpoint; did the event footage gain you those 800 extra attendees the following year or just word of mouth?

I also frequently refer back to cell phones because they are my number one competitor. Since event organizers typically want to pay next to nothing, it is far cheaper for them to just hire a "social media expert" than a real photographer/videographer. "Social media expert" these days is code words for someone with a cell phone who will post mediocre photos and videos throughout the event for barely more than the current minimal wage.

21 hours ago, kye said:

How close do you think the low-light performance of modern FF cameras are to letting you use a single lens (maybe a 24-70/2.8) for all (sensible) lighting conditions?

I still think its not quite there yet.  Of course, we first have to agree on just how dark lowlight really is, but IMO without a panel light no lens works well after the sun goes down unless there's practically enough lights to turn night into day. With my Falcon F7 panel light on full power and with the R5 at its second native ISO of 3200 I might be able to use the 24-70/F2.8 but I have never tried it.  I would rather have a faster lens that I can then stop down a bit with the panel light than to have a setup at the very edge of what it can handle lighting wise.

21 hours ago, kye said:

There's a critical distinction between "feeling like they were there" and "feeling jealous they weren't there" and I think that the former suggests using a 35mm of 50mm lens and the latter suggests using the full range of focal lengths to make everything seem as awesome as possible.

In terms of a lens giving the "feeling like I was there" feeling it's a subtle thing, but definitely there, and it's something that you can learn to see if you're interested in it.  I know you're a working pro and are getting what you want so there's no need to explore this if you're not curious.

I agree 100% which is why I brought up the fact that my focus for events is to promote the event for the following year which is what my clients hire me to do for most types of events. Their goal is to make people see what they missed and instill a desire to catch it next time...which is what drives ticket sales and is how they justify the cost of hiring me vs a "social media expert". Sometimes they hire me to make their vendors/sponsors happy and then the focus is more on the sponsors than anything else. With those types of clients I have to balance showcasing the sponsors while also trying to keep the video feeling like an endless array of sponsor logos and employees. So yes, there subtle differences depending on the client's reasons for hiring a videographer/photographer.

21 hours ago, kye said:

One of the things that made me graduate from the "what new camera should I buy to make my videos better" mindset was really understanding what requirements a good edit had and where I was falling short, and that was in getting sufficient variety of shots.  Not only do the variety of shots allow for keeping the visual interest up by having lots of shots ready to cut up into faster montages, and not only did more shots mean that the ones that made it to the final edit were more visually interesting, but it also gave me more shots to solve problems in editing.  I've heard editors talk about editing as mostly solving problems, and I think that's true.

That is 100% key to a good event video.....or for most videos for that matter, variety is literally everything. Hollywood has mastered this through many subtle tricks that keeps you mentally engaged such as slightly different camera angles every few seconds, switching points of view during conversations, etc. etc. The average clip these days is less than 3-5s even in feature length movies before something has to change (audio, pov, camera angle, etc, etc.).

And yes, editing is really about solving problems more than anything. Picking the right audio track, sequencing the video in a way that you lead the viewer on a logical journey, making sure there are highs as well as lows; hype reels in particular must have lows in order for you to mentally appreciate the highs, there are different types of video "flows" I call them based on how you want to impact the user (building, peaks and valleys, epic, cinematic, etc.) and these have nothing to do with color grading, they are strictly how you tie the audio to the video and sequence the video in a way to lead the viewer on a specific type of journey.  My favorite is when a new client shows me a video that they like and I immediately recognize the flow/style that they are looking for based on how the videographer sequenced the video (audio, speed, transitions, and specifically the flow they used).

22 hours ago, kye said:

I have cut up 10 episodes of Parts Unknown, as well as a few other episodes of food shows like Chefs Table (as these are all heavily shot-on-location unscripted b-roll and music-heavy shows much closer to what I film than narrative or dialogue driven shows) and my overall lesson that I took away was these:

• The camera basically doesn't matter except in how fast it is to shoot with and how little it gets in the way
• The camera settings basically don't matter except if they make the footage literally unusable
• Get lots of shots and get as much variety and coverage as you can
• Learn to edit
• Learn to do sound design
• Everyone on YT who isn't also a working pro is either a featherweight or an outright joke who is just wasting everyones time 

It is a little funny to me because a lot of what you just stated I have been saying here since the day I joined. I know people love to pixel peep, and focus on the gear, and think they are one camera away from being a better videographer/photographer but the reality is at the end of the day most of that doesn't matter. I frequently bring up the fact that Hardcore Henry was filmed with GoPros and a grainy cell phone video of Kim Kardashian will get millions of views; the takeway here is that the gear really doesn't matter anymore, if you have content people want to watch any camera will be good enough to do that. Variety, content, and simplicity (which frees you up to get more content with less work) is really all that matters for most videos.

Any modern camera even cell phone cameras provide fantastic quality and I could even say that these days the camera is the least important part of the ecosystem. I spend way more time fiddling with audio, lighting, and stabilization than I do camera bodies or settings. These days I literally just glance at the histogram for exposure, keep center cross hairs for CAF, and make sure my WB is somewhat close to what it should be. 

22 hours ago, kye said:

I'm still getting to the edit and seeing gaps and all manner of issues in what I shot and trying to make mental notes for next time, but I'm also remembering the edit process when I'm out shooting so I'm learning and improving.

TBH most folks around here talk about cameras like they exist in a little bubble and it's clear that most are trying to compensate for their lack of colour grading skills, editing skills, or sound design skills.

To this day I still do the same thing. I still have problems to solve in the edit, and I still watch other people's videos to see ways I can improve my trade. To me it is an endless cycle of learning, application of what you have learned, then refining your approach to yield the best results with the least amount of work. 

I still reach little points in my edit where I wish that I had kept that composition for a few more seconds to get me to the next jump point, or had held the camera a little steadier to keep from having to post stabilize etc. One of the latest additions to my own personal journey is adding camera movements that will let me more smoothly transition to the next shot which is tough with events because you have no idea until later what the next shot will be or if you will even use that particular clip. But if you shoot a series of clips all with certain camera movements that naturally lead into the next shot then if you use any clip from that series it will make the edit look better.

I have also learned over the years that shooting some of the most random content imaginable during the event/trip/project/etc. can sometimes turn out to be the best part of the video. Totally random things like the stage lighting at a concert, the chandelier at a private VIP event, a palm tree blowing in the wind......etc. In the edit right when you need a break from the endless event footage you thank yourself for being able to cut to that footage before continuing.

7 hours ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

All that said, I chose to use the 24-105mm f/4 exclusively. I stuck close to those focal lengths mentioned above, but in the end switching lenses would have meant missing shots.

That was definitely the best decision. Keeping the setup simple will get you the most content; using that particular zoom lens will perfectly cover both your photography and video needs, and while the sun is up at an event there is no other lens I would rather have. It sounds like at the end of the day you are satisfied with how the project turned out and that is all that really matters.

7 hours ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Your spot on with my philosophy. For me, "feeling like they were there" means using focal lengths familiar to people and being positioned in locations accessible to people. Focal lengths like 24, 35, 50, and 85mm are all very familiar to folks these days whether they know it or not due to the smartphones in their pockets. Restricting oneself to those focal lengths ensures that the camera position feels authentic to the general audience and their experience.

Of course, everyone has their own opinions and for me my focus is on what my clients want and without fail what they want is as much content as possible above all else; lens stylistic choices aside. The only two things that I use different focal lengths for (via the zoom ring) at events is for composition and background compression. 

I guess I just don't understand at all how any focal length will make you feel like you are actually at a certain place. For me personally there is no focal length made that will make me feel like I am somewhere or feel "familiar" to me when looking at a flat two dimensional screen. The exception to that IMO would be a 3D headset or something like that.  To me content is full of everything from closeups to far away wide shots depending on camera to subject distance (just like in real life eyes to subject size and distance), so I guess I just don't see how particular focal lengths will matter but again...that's just my opinion. Having the right focal length for the composition you want and having a lens that is long enough or fast enough to compress the background when needed and is fast enough to accommodate the available light are my only lens considerations when shooting events.

I think I understand a little more of what you mean because you mentioned being in areas accessible to people but I still just don't see how focal length plays into that at all. Maybe after so many years of shooting events my only mindset is helping the organizer sell more tickets or impress their sponsors or maybe because I use the 24-105mm so much at events I am already creating the feeling you describe, but if so then it is definitely purely accidental.

7 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Imaging Resource is gone (really), without announcement.

https://petapixel.com/2023/05/08/imaging-resource-is-now-offline-as-the-camera-website-shuts-its-doors/

Was my preferred, above DPReview.

The only good news is that cameras are so good these days and social media has reduced most forms of produced media to warranting barely more than a passing glance so no matter what camera you buy your biggest competitor will be the cell phone vs the camera you did not buy.

I see a lot of these types of posts and really think only you can answer those questions, each of us has our own shooting style, also each of our responses will come from a position of bias; either conscious (deliberately trying to sway you to adopt their chosen ecosystem) or subconscious (their shooting style matches their gear so well that they really want you to see just how great your experience will be with their setup). 

So with that long winded caveat out of the way, I personally am now a 100% Canon shooter so that you will know that everything that comes after that statement will probably have a bit of Canon bias in it because yes, my current Canon setup (C70, R5, R7) fixes every problem I had with every previous setup and happens to fit my particular requirements perfectly.

Option 1 - Based on my limited knowledge of Nikon, I would take the same route I took when I was shooting with the Panasonic S5....there's simply no way I would invest in more glass, with the S5 I went with an EF adapter which let me switch to Canon far cheaper than if I had gone all in on L mount glass.

Option 2 - If you only have a single lens right now, now is the perfect time to decide once and for all what ecosystem you are moving to, if you truly believe you will change ecosystems in the near future that will determine what adapter and lens ecosystem you move to. If you are going Canon then obviously EF or Sony then E mount. The one problem with the EF route is that you will be buying older EF glass and if you move to Canon then you will be stuck with all of that EF glass; not a bad situation to be in since EF glass is way cheaper than RF and with EF glass and an RF mount camera you have access to the excellent Viltrox vND filter, but its just something to keep in mind.  I personally went with this option and all I had to do was buy the RF to EF adapter to start using my EF glass on my R bodies.

Option 3 - Once again only you know your financial situation, how badly you want a new ecosystem, etc. As a Canon shooter though, there is no way I could recommend the R6 due to its continued overheating problems. The R7 or R6II is the far better choice right now. The S5 II would be a hard one since it has literally everything but the kitchen sink; but you would either be buying into what I consider the dead L mount "alliance" or once again need to stick with non native EF adapters and EF glass you also wouldn't have access to the vND EF to RF adapter which is somewhat game changing for event shooters like myself.  Sony I know nothing about but if you are into photography at all then the A7IV is probably a better choice than the FX30.

@kye @MrSMW To me shooting events has absolutely nothing to do with style, for me, style doesn't enter the picture until the editing stage for both photos and video when shooting events. My approach to events is that I have one job; capture literally everything; starting with the critical shot list and then going from there. For video my focus is peak action and variety, for photos my main focus is on the branding and the vendors, for a concert it would be the band members, and a few shots of the audience or peak action shots of people that seem to be enjoying the event the most.

During the edit is when I can focus on stylistic color grading, transitions, audio tracks, etc for the video, and stylistic color grading and compositions for photos. For other types of projects I focus more on style during the shoot such as for music videos (budget permitting), modeling videos, fashion, promo, commercial, boudoir, etc, etc. But during events I stick to my one job; capture everything. 

So many times after an event the client will ask did I happen to get a shot of xyz vendor, or abc activation and most of the time I can say yes. For a concert I would get everything from the trucks that the band members arrived in to the crowds waiting in line, to the food vendors lined up around the venue, to the band itself, etc, etc both photos and video because I have no idea what was left off of the critical shot list that the customer might ask for later.

For everything I shoot I try to get close, medium, and wide shots to provide variety, I mix in some totally random shots of small details like the instruments sitting on the stage before the band gets up there, or the lights in the tent above the stage, etc. Those details I use later to break up what can feel like monotony in the video and little details like that is how I attempt to re-tell the day for the viewer; focal length to me is the least stylistic thing I focus on and that's why there is no substitute for the 24-105 for me since there is no 35-150 option for Canon; even if there was, I would still prefer the 24-105 because its perfect on a crop sensor body like the R7. I also if at all possible try to get a few seconds of drone footage to show the big picture and further bring the viewer into the experience of the event.

I guess all of that put together becomes my "style" but the last thing I would do is lock myself into primes during an event or multiple bodies if at all avoidable. For me my format/style works for me and has helped me build up a list of repeat customers so at the end of the day whatever works for you is whatever you should do.

13 hours ago, kye said:

If you can work out what you can do without, and still keep the client happy, then it will better help you work out what to take.  For example, I can imagine a situation where a 24-70/4 and a 35/1.8 could give enough coverage but also not be prohibitive.  Or even a 16-35/2.8 and a 70/2.  

There's also the goal that people 'feel like they were there'.  For that, you should really be filming the whole thing with a single 35mm or 50mm prime as that's how the human eye sees.  If you make a nice edit with 16mm and 100mm shots then it's not going to have that same feel.  

I can't see a single scenario where I would need that combination of lenses but that's just me. No hand wringing here after shooting years of events there are only 4 lenses I have ever needed for events:

Canon EF 24-105mm F4.0 - Obviously my first and favorite choice, it covers nearly all of the focal ranges you listed with one major downside; it too slow for lowlight. I use this lens for nearly everything until the sun goes down. Obviously it does not get down to 16mm but I don't like that focal length anyway when filming people due to barrel distortion at the wide end so I have a 16-35mm but I have never used it for anything except landscape and real estate.

Sigma EF-S 18-35 F1.8 - When the sun goes down this is the only lens I use now that I have the R7.  This works great for low light events for both photos and video when combined with a single panel light.

Canon RF 70-200 - When I am shooting an event locked down with a dual camera setup (i.e runway shows, dance recitals, opera performances, etc), I put the 24-105mm F4.0 on the C70 and the RF 70-200 on the R7 and lock them both down on tripods. That's my long form/locked down event setup.

Sigma EF 50mm F1.4 ART - I rarely use this lens these days since getting the R7, but occasionally I will pull it out for product detail shots if it is that kind of event so that I can get razor thin bokeh and have great low light performance.

As far as trying to get people to 'feel like they were there', I guess I'm just not artistic enough to see how the lens focal length in any way can portray that feeling at all. To me I've never watched a video and thought; that focal length is exactly how my eyes would have seen it so I really feel like I was there. Instead I have watched videos and seen such a wide variety of activities portrayed in the video that is made me wish that I had been there....so that is my goal with event videos, to make the viewer want to buy tickets to the event next year because they missed it this year; and that is exactly how my clients use my event videos, they repost them the following year to try to bring up ticket sales.

I also think since most people will watch the video on a cell phone, attempting to use focal length to pull the viewer into the event is an exercise in futility. With people's short attention spans and increasing need for stimulation to stay interested a good event video in my opinion is absolutely full of content that catches the eye every few seconds; its not uncommon for me to use upwards of 60 clips in an event video that is less than 90s. Of course this depends on the type of event as well, but in general more is better these days.

A final consideration is that nearly all of my clients want an IG/FB/and YT version of each video. With a properly composed video, you can convert a landscape YT video into a portrait IG/FB video with a few mouse clicks and the video will need minimal re-composition. With the lenses I use and the way I compose the shots this all works out for me with minimal editing effort.

On 5/2/2023 at 11:59 AM, MurtlandPhoto said:

So, I've got a super exciting shoot coming up with some interesting constraints I'm trying to plan for. It's a concert with big name act. I'll be shooting and editing a recap video for the venue featuring all the goings-on before, during, and after the show including footage of the concert itself from the pit and some up close interactions with the performers. Lots of footage of the venue, the fans up close, signage, merch, everything—trying to capture every aspect of the show so folks can feel like they were there. My main camera will be the Sony FX6 and my second body will be the A7iv for backup/stills. I'll only be able to have a large waist (fanny) pack with me for accessories and extra lenses. I know one of my lenses will be my Sony 24-105mm f/4. My question is: what 2 primes should I also bring? I know where I'm leaning, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I have the SLR Magic MicroPrimes: 21mm t1.6, 35mm t1.3, 50mm t1.2, and 75mm t1.5.

I agree with never changing lenses at a concert. I only change lenses if I can go back to my car and change inside the car away from the heat, dust, and people that want to ask me a lot of camera questions. 

But I also like to keep things simple, so for your situation I would (and have) shoot the entire event with the 24-105 F4. That's become my favorite event video/photo hybrid event lens of all time. Also with APS-C mode you can punch in all the way to 155mm when necessary.

Since you are carrying two bodies anyway (not something I would do I would just shoot everything with the R7, or in your case with the A7IV), I would pair the A7IV with the 50mm. 

The biggest problem I have with two bodies is that I only have 1 24-105mm lens so anything I mount on a second body will have less range; with a prime no way to compose groups if the prime is too long and no way to punch in for details if the prime is too wide; I also will lose time switching between the two instead of just flicking the switch to go from photos to video and back, and last but not least lugging around a second body in a crowded pit would be a royal PITA. 

I know nothing about Sony, so I don't know how much better the FX6 is for video vs the A7IV just like I don't know how good of a hybrid camera the A7IV is, but if the video quality is similar, I would rig up the A7IV with a side handle for video, large capacity SD cards, and a fill flash for photos and shoot the whole event like that with a single body and a single lens...this would fix the photo body lens problem, simplify your rig and the only thing you would need in the fanny pack is batteries.

I do it all the time with the R7 and in 95% of the cases the IQ is identical to my C70 and R5 but with the added benefit of great images as well.  I hate fiddling with gear at events and for me personally have found that one good hybrid body gets me more keeper shots and better variety of footage than fiddling with a complex gear setup. I know as videographers it is easy to get buried in the gear hype, but keeping it simple lets you focus on the moment vs the gear and that rewards you with more content and less missed chances during the event not to mention less chance of your gear getting damaged. One body in your hand is a lot safer than one swinging by your side in a pit.

If you decide to go with just the A7IV, I would set up the favorites menu with the APS-C crop in the menu to quickly punch in when distance is an issue for both photos and video, that's how I have my R7 setup, that combined with the 24-105 F4 is my setup for nearly anything except lowlight. For lowlight at events I switch to my Sigma APS-C 18-35 F1.8 with a Falcon F7 panel light.

Just my .02 and my particular niche is over 10yrs of shooting events exactly like the one you described. These days I only use two bodies for long form content or projects where I can lock down at least one of the cameras on a tripod.

2 hours ago, Django said:

@herein2020 Well its no secret Sony is the new Canon when it comes to cripple strategy. Like I've said before such is the syndrome of leadership position. Canon have actually been great with firmware updates recently and they include things like DCI, RAW internal in their upper end non cine line hybrids. Canon claim R6ii uses a tweaked version of Digic X with lower power consumption for less heat and longer recordings. It also has the latest DPAF II engine with AI deep learning. So I don't know how much can be ported over to R5, an older gen camera already pretty crammed with features and prone to overheat.

But I digress, Canon segments as well and one should buy a camera for what it does on day one. Sony just feels extra greedy towards their customers with an avalanche of product releases pushing regular hardware upgrades instead of giving you via free firmware updates (FX3/FX30 3.0 features should have been there on initial release). Obviously its a smart business strategy until it backfires and ppl switch to other systems. Panasonic does have the best reputation plus they don't over charge their products here in Europe like Canon & Sony do.

Yeah no open gate is maddening (also on Canon).

They're only just starting to give out DCI options so Open Gate is probably yet another decade away. 🙄

Also only two de squeeze options (1.33x & 2x) on the new firmware which is super limited considering all the affordable 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x anamorphic lenses out there.

 

I thought Sony was already known as the vendor that floods the market with tons of HW but not particularly known for their FW releases. Back when Sony first jumped into mirrorless, it seemed like they were released a new camera every week and telling their users if they wanted the problems fixed with their current cameras they should upgrade to their next cameras so this doesn't seem like a new thing to me.

Some of the Sony shooters I have met always seem to be one upgrade away from getting a Sony version that actually "works right" vs one FW update away from getting their current body to "work right". Mind you this is mainly for video, the photographers seem quite happy with their Sony cameras.

14 hours ago, Django said:

A7Siii came out well before FX3/FX30 and was way overdue with about 4 years in between A7Sii. 

Its kinda easy today to claim it as the "wrong camera" "for people who take video seriously". 

Many spent their hard earned cash on it upon its release.

Regardless, breathing comp and a lot of the FX3/FX30 features are creeping into Alpha bodies. 

No reason Sony should withhold an A7Siii firmware update, aside from cripple hammer perspective.

As a Canon shooter, seeing the phrase cripple hammer in a Sony thread is pure comedy for me 🤣, my how times have changed in the Canon world. 

I have nothing else to add to this thread since I know nothing about Sony cameras and I am quite satisfied with my current Canon setup, but I will be disappointed if Canon does not add the FW features that are in the R6II to the R5 and R7.  Not a big loss, but it would still be disappointing. It would not surprise me if Canon doesn't do a single thing for the R7 due to its price point but the R5 is a different story.

So yes, other than Panasonic who literally throws everything but the kitchen sink into every camera they make, I think all camera manufacturers look at the cost vs reward ratios of effort vs additional sales and at the end of the day that bottom line is what drives their priorities. Quite frequently its us consumers that get left behind. Fortunately camera's are so good on day one these days that most FW updates are nice to haves vs necessities.

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I just have one word:

Weddings 💰

Sure, they don’t have the caché of shooting music videos never mind even short films, but a lot more creative freedom compared with working for an actual client!

OK, the couple are your client but if you are doing it right, they will have next to zero creative input.

If I could restart my career, sure, I’d rather be working towards being the cinematographer on Dune, but like 95% of actors who work in coffee shops to make ends meet, I decided to be the indépendant coffee shop owner over the casual working there.

I digress, but the one thing this industry has taught me is to steer well clear of demanding people with ‘ideas’ 🤪

Actually music videos are my favorite type of project to work on, if there was any money at all in it in my area I would shoot a lot more but where I live the artists have no money and music artists aren't really a big thing here. 

The key to music videos is to be very selective with who you work with. You quickly learn to decline projects where the artists wants cars, women, and mansions for their $500 budget. I also won't shoot any that feature guns, drugs, violence, etc. because their tiny budget wouldn't offset the number of high-end clientele that type of content could drive away from my business. The best clients in my area are in the $1500-$5000 range and they let you do your job which is to create the visuals for their lyrics. 

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I just have one word:

Weddings 💰

Sure, they don’t have the caché of shooting music videos never mind even short films, but a lot more creative freedom compared with working for an actual client!

I think weddings are like everything else, the conditions have to be right for them to be worth it. Just like music videos and the big events that I shoot, where you are located can completely change the types of projects that are profitable or enjoyable. In a small town with no big profitable events, my business model would not work.

To me weddings are my least favorite of all projects. In my area they don't pay very well since this is not a wedding destination and there's tons of wedding videographers/photographers here, and the sheer disorganization of it all combined with trying to get a few min of the bride and groom's time on their wedding day and combined with trying to get everyone mic'd up for good audio makes it just not something I want to shoot.

Also, the only geographic feature here is the beaches so everyone wants a beach wedding which is blazing hot in the summer so you have to worry about your gear overheating and the sand gets into every single crevice of your equipment.  In an area with less competition, that is a wedding destination, where weddings paid better I would be more inclined to pursue that type of work. 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

That is brutal. 

Just to get a basic yearly income he'll have to do two each and every week!

And that includes: marketing to find new clients, onboarding them, doing the preproduction, doing the shoot itself, doing all the postproduction himself (otherwise that eats into profits) and delivery! 

That's nothing, this year I shot 3 music videos for a total of $500....yes you read that right, not $500/ea but $500 total and still managed to make it profitable. I used a single venue, a model who was willing to work for free, 3hrs to film all 3, and about 3hrs on the edits. Yes they look like $500 music videos but that's because they were. Even the audio tracks for each video was recorded live in a single take for each one. Two hours filming the performances and audio live, 1hr filming b-roll and it was a wrap.

I agree with you on the volume thing though, I couldn't do that every month let alone every week. They were a nice break from my normal work, but no way would I want that to be my niche.