SteveV4D

1 minute ago, Adrian Bacon said:

 

I’ll answer with a question: do you find yourself implicitly trusting every advertisement you see? I don’t and I seriously doubt that you do.

I don't believe all I read in the papers.  Yet newspapers can still be held for liable if they are found to publish something not true.  Marketing still has to conform to guidelines.  Yes, it is allowed to push the positives, but misleading marketing is still something a company is accoutable for.  

Maybe I should tell my clients I work a 16 hour day yet only work 10.  After all, they should know advertisment is often misleading.  They can't hold me accoutable for it..   Oh, but of course, actually they can.  😄

7 minutes ago, Adrian Bacon said:

Does the S1H have an 8K sensor in a weather sealed body? 
 

if the standard line skipped 4K output has a negligible image quality difference to a C300 mark whatever, then what’s the problem? We won’t know that until those tests are done.

It has a 6K sensor in a weather sealed body.. which allows people to film with it.  I know, that's quite the novelty for a non cinema camera by your standards.  Still you're saying how good the R5 video features are with 8K, even though its a photo camera.  If you can praise its video features, then why can't others criticise them too.  You want your cake and eat it with the R5 video.

If the worse 4K on the R5 is as good as the C300, then I feel sorry for the C300.  

12 minutes ago, Adrian Bacon said:

It’s not a professional video camera. If it were, Canon would have released it under their Cinema line. They didn’t. they provided some basic recording limits information if using the higher end video features so people don’t run out and buy it thinking that it’s a replacement for a real cinema camera. 

 

I know its not a professional video camera.  Neither is the A7sIII or the S1H or a number of other mirrorless hybrids out there shooting quality 4K without line skipping for longer recording times than the R5.  If the S1H isn't constrained by being a hybrid and not a cinema camera, why can't the R5 follow that example?  Canon made very clear who the R5 was intended for and it was filmakers as well as Photographers.  Its not for you to say they were mistaken just to justify the cameras deficiancies to yourself and others.  If Canon now put their hand up and say, yes we were wrong.  The R5 isn't for video, its a photo camera not a hybrid, then fair enough.  But when they made statements about the R5 complimenting the C300 on a shoot, it is clear that although not a Cinema C series camera, it was considered a perfect companion to one.  And not I assume for taking photos on set. 🤣🤣

3 hours ago, Adrian Bacon said:

Correction: you bought a seriously expensive stills photography first camera that just happens to have the ability to record pretty high quality video, NOT a video first camera that just happens to record stills. If you intend to use this camera for video first, you shouldn’t be expecting reliable high end cinema performance in a stills camera form factor.  

This is the nonsense I see on DpReview.  Apparently the camera is excused for not working reliably as its not a Professional video camera.  So why does it have 8K RAW, or 120fps 4K then?  Why provide such top video features only to cripple them?  And why is it so wrong to wish that they work as the customer requires, especially if you're paying over £4k for it.  I have video and photo functions on my phone.  Its neither a dedicated video or photo camera, yet I still expect these functions to work reliably.  Basic stuff.  How well would a phone do, if it advertised a limit on say web browsing.  You get 15 mins then it overheats and you'll have to switch off for a few hours before you can browse again.  It would be laughed at.

Canons description of the overheating limits is half a story.  There are some crucial inconsistencies their figures don't address.  Canon offered us a hybrid camera and advertised it as such.  The S1H is also a hybrid and not a true cinema camera; yet is far more reliable shooting HQ video.  Compare the R5 to that and not cinema cameras and you'll see what some of us were actually hoping for.

25 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

Same guy made a comparison between 4K and 4KHQ and looks like 4K is totally usable. So I will be waiting for Andrew's feedback about it, we could get several workarounds to use this camera in most of the situations.

 

Some thoughts.  Is line skipped from an 8K sensor yielding better 4K than one line skipped from a 6K sensor?  Does the AA filter mean the downsampled 4K from 8K isn't as sharp and therefore easily matched?  Why is everyone raving how wonderful HQ 4K is, if sharpened line skipped 4K looks as good?

To my eyes though, I could see the difference even on my phone.  HQ 4K looked naturally detailed, whereas standard looked sharp, which can give that video look.  Also he was using his face as a test, which can disguise lack of detail better; he should have tried a landscape view with a whole load of small detail.  Or something where moiré would be likely to show.  So it feels biased and his over the top reactions were annoying too.  As if sharpening a soft image wouldn't be comparable to a detailed image with minimum sharpening.  Its not rocket science.

Blaxkmagic have uploaded an update to Resolve that adds Gen 5 support for Windows users.  I've been having a little play with it using footage I shot over the last week and I'm liking the results.  The flatter curve starting point does help.

1 minute ago, Kino said:

I watched the whole presentation live on their YT channel weeks ago. Grant did say you can switch the mount to EF by purchasing it separately, but my point is that it is a camera intended for high-end PL glass. That's not to say you can't use EF glass or that it won't work at all. On Blackmagic Forum, they posted a still image from the 12K camera using a Sigma 18-35 EF, so it is possible (but not ideal).

I see your point.  Mine I guess was that if you're looking to film 8K RAW, its a better workhorse than the R5 for any Professional work, such as the examples you quoted in an earlier post.  

13 minutes ago, Kino said:

I'm sure it's great, although FF 8K would have been much more sensible with less demanding optics. The optical challenge in resolving 12K at the Super 35mm sensor size requires lenses that cost far more than the Blackmagic camera.

It's a camera for rental houses, which is why it ships with a PL mount. There, they can rent you the $40K Cooke lenses you will need for that purpose.

You can record 8K and at higher frame rates than the R5; which is downsampled internally from 12K. This will give you better 8K in the same way 8k can give better 4K.

As for lens mount, maybe you missed this on the press release:

"You can quickly switch between PL, EF and F mount lenses on the URSA Mini Pro 12K"

34 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

No stills and $5000 more for the Blackmagic tho..

You need to read what I was replying to and the examples given.   At what point do you use a dedicated video camera rather than a hybrid.

Irinically if I was on DpReview, I'd be told any criticisms of the video functions of the R5 are stupid because I should be using a proper video camera for professional video work.  😏

6 minutes ago, Kino said:

IBIS is no substitute for a stabilizer or tripod, unfortunately. I believe 8K RAW at Full Frame is ideal for landscape and architectural videography as well as stock footage. VFX guys and product shooters (commercials, ads) would also find it useful, I'm sure. 

Buy the new Blackmagic then.  You get 12K.  It will be a better deal than 3 R5 you would need to take with you on a job to cover for the overheating.  Plus BRAW is a lot better than the Canon version for editing.  

4 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

They didn't design a hybrid because they simply didn't want it. For obvious reasons. A pity.

Our trade-off now is trying now how to take advantage from this gem, if possible, in order to overcome this overheating issue and their firmware cripple.

Well they did design it as a hybrid.  Its got excellent photo features, which are good enough to make it arguably more a stills camera than video.  Its us video users who want more.  True hybrid users mainly shooting photos with a tiny bit of video will encounter issues less frequently.  They will also likely be happy with line skipped 4K. 

Again its us picky video professionals that struggle with this camera.  I would buy a hybrid camera for video with occasional photo functions and because I want reliable, good quality 4K, this camera fails to meet my needs.  I also want more than 12MP, so A7sIII is out too unfortunately.

Its gem qualities that you speak of, for me exist in its weather sealing, its small size, its photo functions, its AF and its IBIS.  Now some of those will be hindered by rigging.  I can understand for those who just want to record lots of HQ video at any cost on this camera because it is Canon, will settle for compromises.  For others, its taking away the very thing that would make this camera something we would value in our equipment range.  

As all our milage will differ depending on our needs, it becomes an argument with no clear resolution, except to agree to differ in how we see the camera in how it would perform in our own personal workflow.  We all agree that overheating does exists, because it is now considered a fact.  

23 minutes ago, Super8 said:

SMALLRIG HDMI Cable Clamp  secures the Micro HDMI cable.  If you go external you most likely have a cage.  This isn't really an issue for the 4 hour record 

I use a similar clamp for USB, but a USB C cable is designed for such a small connector.  HDMI is a large cable, designed for a proper HDMI port, making the tiny micro one at one end a very flimsy and breakable piece, even for clamping.  I've got half a dozen such cables for my GH4, as I broke one just trying to attach it. 

Besides rigging my Pocket camera with a clamp and rig makes sense, its not a hybrid, but if you pick a R5, it being designed for Photography, weather sealed, small, light and unobtrusive makes it ideal for those jobs where I don't want to rig it.  

Its a huge shame that  other camera manufacturers don't follow Blackmagics example of running video via USB to a SSD drive.  This would be a better solution to the R5 than an external recorder.  You could eliminate the card and still record for longer periods on something much lighter and not battery powered than an external recorder. 

If the R5 has this function and allowed longer recording times, including even 8K RAW and 120fps 4K to it, I would buy the camera.  

As it stands, internal is too unreliable and external risky due to micro HDMI and too bulky for what I would buy the camera for.

16 minutes ago, Gianluca said:

In the comment 

https://i.imgur.com/CBIkc9G.jpg

 

A lot of people took Canon's example of a 20 minute clip limit in 23 degrees at face value and not a flexible limit depending on use and other temperatures.

2 hours ago, Kino said:

Ooh la la! There is a bit too much contrast, but it is a nice image overall. There is also significant noise in some of the night shots, but that might be user error.

 

 

Nice video, with some great shots.  DR seems a bit off in some moments.  There's some of that IBIS twitch and wobble; I assume the lens wasn't allowing for the full 8 stop IBIS advertise.  Its no different to the GH5 IBIS.  

I expect we shall see a flood of videos with 8K in the title in the same way you got when 6K recording became the option.  Once the novelty wears off, will people still be shooting 8K given the file size and editing hassle.  

6 hours ago, Super8 said:

The R5 has been test to go 4 hours without overheating if you record with the Atomos Ninja V.    External recording is needed with the Z6, S1H and A7S3 to record RAW.

 

That micro HDMI port is the weak link.  The S1H at least has a proper HDMI port.  That said, the cameras you quote are external recording to get RAW, with long recordings of HQ 4K doing fine on internal.  With the R5, its the other way round, which feels a bit backwards.  

10 minutes ago, Super8 said:

It's a hard call on the A7S3 right now.  How much it heats up in the sun or in hot outdoor usage is still not clear.  

I don't think Sony has recording or usage limits based on how the A7S3 is being used.  I do think it matters because the A7S3 would be used by wedding videographers and lots of weddings are outside.  I don't see how you work around that with the A7S3.  

I like the S1H form factor with the fan design. 

Weddings are outside mostly in the USA; here in the UK, its little more than a 50/50 chance even in Summer.  I know many Wedding Videographers who use Sony.  But UK weather is less severe a problem for overheating.  Though I hired one guy who had a Sony cut out on him during an outdoor Wedding in July.  It was hot that day, but I've had others use them with no issues at all.  

6 minutes ago, Kino said:

Engineering guy: "I shot an entire wedding on the R5 in 1080P and it didn't overheat":

Like I said, this stuff just writes itself . . .

Click bait title with an... 'oh and by the way....' once you press play.   I saw this video few days ago and 🙄

6 minutes ago, noone said:

I do not think the A7s iii NEEDS a fan.      At least not for the vast majority who will use it and especially if all you have to do is keep it out of direct sun in hot environments as much as possible.       Not much different to weather sealing.     I would not rely on Sony weather sealing in pouring rain but there are work arounds (I have used an A7/a7s in rain but not for longer periods and not in a downpour).

I am not sure I would want one in a camera unless it really was needed as it just adds more complexity and something else that can break as well as an increase in size.   Others will differ.

Fans in technology is something we've all become use to and whilst they can fail, I think they do more good stopping other componets failing.  I'd feel happier with one installed than not.

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

Does Panasonic have a patient on mirrorless body with internal fan?   I know this is a stupid question but we have Sony and Canon having issues with overheating and the S1H looking golden because it doesn't overheat.

Crazy things have had patients placed on them until challenged.

I don’t think there's any patent on fan technology.  With Patients, who knows... 😂

Just now, Emanuel said:

No clue on R6, only R5 interests me :- )

£4k just to use a fullframe camera in cropped mode.  🤔  Half the price and I'd consider it.

38 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Have you ever considered the 5.1K route coupled to a speedbooster + EF lenses?

They say it doesn't show overheating issues.

Thats possible.  Is this for the R6 or R5?

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

I disagree.

It depends on how you define 'professional works'.

But is a wedding videographer not producing professional work?

 

Speaking as a Wedding Videographer, who was looking at the R6 and maybe R5 for such work, primarily as a B camera to my BM Pockets, I would not consider it usable for Wedding work.  I would be very reluctant to hire anyone using this camera as I want HQ 4K and not line skipped mush and I need stuff to be filmed through the day and not the first 20 mins of it. 

I stand by that the R5 shooting HQ video formats isn't suitable for any Professionals.  Lower the recording to standard 4K, 1090p or trust the micro HDMI port to use an external recorder, then yes.  Internal HQ recording.  No.

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

What about engineering filmmakers...? : D

 

 

The Wedding Business has some real amateurs working it.  Buy a new R5 and plan to use it as an A camera for a Wedding and now he worries.  Seriously, some people shouldn't do video Professionally if they behave like this.   The reply is stupid too.  Even if you love the R5, to suggest shooting with it when so much evidence exists to suggest its limitations for such work.  Its one thing to work through those limitations yourself, another thing to advise others to do the same.

23 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Funny how the camera buying internet has gone from "what are the most sick cinematic camera movements?" to "will my camera melt and burn my hands, and shall i buy a self generating ice pack to get 2 mins 8k recording on my year long trip

Its 2020, we have all the time in the World to bitch and moan.  Plus Canon finally embracing overheating as a camera feature was always going to generate more interest.