newfoundmass

Times change, as does how people get into video production and videography. You're unable to see things from a perspective that isn't yours @Kisaha. If you're a 21 year old kid (that's how old he was when he got his first paid gig) that is offered $75 to film a theater performance because you happen to own a camera for a YouTube channel you're trying to get off the ground, you're not going to have the experience and knowledge of someone that has been doing it for years and years. You're also probably not going to turn that opportunity down, either, because that's a credit card payment for the camera you put on credit.
I was only relaying how his path into videography began, and how he first purchased a camera that was limited and how that impacted his unexpected, but ultimately successful, transition into doing paid work. He now shoots with three A7siii bodies and is doing well for himself. His criticism of the ZV-E1 is pretty valid, because 5 years ago he would've been the target demo for this camera, probably purchased it, and found he'd spent $2200 on a camera that he couldn't use for the work he'd eventually end up doing. As he put it, there's dozens of better options that won't limit a person from following whatever path they end up taking, whether it's being a YouTuber or becoming interested in filmmaking or videography as a job.
His perspective was different from mine, and obviously yours, so I figured it was worth sharing.

What has Matt got in his pockets? 😂

I'm loving the videos @Andrew Reidhas been posting on YouTube lately. They're cracking me up, because he's saying a lot of the things I'm thinking, but doing it with the British humor and wit that I lack. The Matt Granger one did me in this morning! If you haven't watched them you should! Keep it up, Andrew!

I was talking to a friend this morning who started out planning to be a YouTuber but ended up doing actual paid work and losing interest in YouTube. He's a Sony user and he gave me a different perspective for why this camera sucks and it is a pretty simple one: given it's limitations it can't grow with you.
His first paid jobs were because people knew he did "that YouTube stuff" and they wondered if he could film something for them. He was of course stoked about it, but ended up having a problem: his A7iii was good for his YouTube channel but the 30 minute record limit didn't cut it for the theater productions he was asked to film. Suddenly the camera that he bought because all the YouTubers he wanted to emulate were using it, and that he bought on credit (he was 20 at the time and didn't know better), wasn't the right tool for the job. He was able to get around it when he found out the trick to remove the limit, but he still found it'd overheat sometimes. His parents eventually helped him buy an A7siii once they saw the potential in what he was doing, but it was a costly lesson. 
Obviously his experience might not be typical, but his point was that if he was just getting started now he'd probably buy this camera but end up regretting it because of it's limitations. People's intentions/priorities change over time. People buying this camera might only intend to use it for YouTube and short takes, but what happens when your co-worker offers to pay you to film their kid's play? Or you're asked to film your cousin's wedding? 
Anyway, it was an interesting perspective from someone that started out as a YouTuber that I thought I'd share.

I was talking to a friend this morning who started out planning to be a YouTuber but ended up doing actual paid work and losing interest in YouTube. He's a Sony user and he gave me a different perspective for why this camera sucks and it is a pretty simple one: given it's limitations it can't grow with you.
His first paid jobs were because people knew he did "that YouTube stuff" and they wondered if he could film something for them. He was of course stoked about it, but ended up having a problem: his A7iii was good for his YouTube channel but the 30 minute record limit didn't cut it for the theater productions he was asked to film. Suddenly the camera that he bought because all the YouTubers he wanted to emulate were using it, and that he bought on credit (he was 20 at the time and didn't know better), wasn't the right tool for the job. He was able to get around it when he found out the trick to remove the limit, but he still found it'd overheat sometimes. His parents eventually helped him buy an A7siii once they saw the potential in what he was doing, but it was a costly lesson. 
Obviously his experience might not be typical, but his point was that if he was just getting started now he'd probably buy this camera but end up regretting it because of it's limitations. People's intentions/priorities change over time. People buying this camera might only intend to use it for YouTube and short takes, but what happens when your co-worker offers to pay you to film their kid's play? Or you're asked to film your cousin's wedding? 
Anyway, it was an interesting perspective from someone that started out as a YouTuber that I thought I'd share.

I was talking to a friend this morning who started out planning to be a YouTuber but ended up doing actual paid work and losing interest in YouTube. He's a Sony user and he gave me a different perspective for why this camera sucks and it is a pretty simple one: given it's limitations it can't grow with you.
His first paid jobs were because people knew he did "that YouTube stuff" and they wondered if he could film something for them. He was of course stoked about it, but ended up having a problem: his A7iii was good for his YouTube channel but the 30 minute record limit didn't cut it for the theater productions he was asked to film. Suddenly the camera that he bought because all the YouTubers he wanted to emulate were using it, and that he bought on credit (he was 20 at the time and didn't know better), wasn't the right tool for the job. He was able to get around it when he found out the trick to remove the limit, but he still found it'd overheat sometimes. His parents eventually helped him buy an A7siii once they saw the potential in what he was doing, but it was a costly lesson. 
Obviously his experience might not be typical, but his point was that if he was just getting started now he'd probably buy this camera but end up regretting it because of it's limitations. People's intentions/priorities change over time. People buying this camera might only intend to use it for YouTube and short takes, but what happens when your co-worker offers to pay you to film their kid's play? Or you're asked to film your cousin's wedding? 
Anyway, it was an interesting perspective from someone that started out as a YouTuber that I thought I'd share.

I'd also argue that they've already got people's money, so they don't care. They want you to buy the next camera, not increase the value of the camera you've already bought. And it works, because more than a couple notable YouTubers ended up getting the A1 and the A7RV after selling the A7SIII, which I'm sure then influenced others to do the same since that's how it works. I just wish more people cared about this shitty behavior.

It's one thing if the hardware can't support it, or if the camera is ancient, but the only reason these new features aren't being added to recent cameras via firmware is because Sony doesn't want to. As you said, they are features you can live without, but that's not really the point. These companies want brand loyalty without giving it back in return.

Unless you're shooting in a log profile or doing lots of color grading 8-bit is fine. I film the majority of my event work in 8-bit because 10-bit just isn't necessary when I don't need to do a ton of corrections. I film in the natural color profile on my Lumix cameras, set my custom white balance, and I'm good to go.
10-bit is great to have for narrative, commercial, and even corporate/interviews where you're going for a certain "look." It is also very good for green screen work. Since getting the Lumix S5 and full v-log I've filmed more in 10 bit. I really like it, but it's just not necessary for a lot of stuff.

Unless you're shooting in a log profile or doing lots of color grading 8-bit is fine. I film the majority of my event work in 8-bit because 10-bit just isn't necessary when I don't need to do a ton of corrections. I film in the natural color profile on my Lumix cameras, set my custom white balance, and I'm good to go.
10-bit is great to have for narrative, commercial, and even corporate/interviews where you're going for a certain "look." It is also very good for green screen work. Since getting the Lumix S5 and full v-log I've filmed more in 10 bit. I really like it, but it's just not necessary for a lot of stuff.

It's one thing if the hardware can't support it, or if the camera is ancient, but the only reason these new features aren't being added to recent cameras via firmware is because Sony doesn't want to. As you said, they are features you can live without, but that's not really the point. These companies want brand loyalty without giving it back in return.

Listen, guys. I love my A7S3. Yes I would love to have new dynamic stab, and better AF. I also would want a new video oriented clean on-screen menu layout, but I can live without it. The camera still rocks. The problem is not about it beeing crucial feautures, its the attitude to the community, to us, its customurs. And this attitude stinks. In our age not giving your hardware avalible software updates is really really unexusable. Showing support to your older product is showing love to your customers. And feeling abandoned for a new youger girlfriend is not exactly a stimulating emotional experience. 

I'd also argue that they've already got people's money, so they don't care. They want you to buy the next camera, not increase the value of the camera you've already bought. And it works, because more than a couple notable YouTubers ended up getting the A1 and the A7RV after selling the A7SIII, which I'm sure then influenced others to do the same since that's how it works. I just wish more people cared about this shitty behavior.

Unless you're shooting in a log profile or doing lots of color grading 8-bit is fine. I film the majority of my event work in 8-bit because 10-bit just isn't necessary when I don't need to do a ton of corrections. I film in the natural color profile on my Lumix cameras, set my custom white balance, and I'm good to go.
10-bit is great to have for narrative, commercial, and even corporate/interviews where you're going for a certain "look." It is also very good for green screen work. Since getting the Lumix S5 and full v-log I've filmed more in 10 bit. I really like it, but it's just not necessary for a lot of stuff.

I'd also argue that they've already got people's money, so they don't care. They want you to buy the next camera, not increase the value of the camera you've already bought. And it works, because more than a couple notable YouTubers ended up getting the A1 and the A7RV after selling the A7SIII, which I'm sure then influenced others to do the same since that's how it works. I just wish more people cared about this shitty behavior.

I'm actually surprised that they didn't go their own way too, though they might feel more financially secure to be on the payroll somewhere. The big difference between them and the rest of the YouTubers out there is that they're older and have families, so being on payroll somewhere might be more appealing. Probably provides more stability than having to rely on YouTube ad revenue that can really fluctuate. 

Yeah. If they were 20 somethings that weren't married with kids they might've gone a different direction, but they're older guys with wives and kids so they were gonna go with whatever site offered them a steady paycheck while allowing them to continue doing what they do. They can always fall back on doing their own thing eventually if they need to. 

I'm curious if this is doable should the site really "die"... does anyone remember Geocities, the free web hosting company? There was an effort to basically crawl every Geocities site possible and preserve it, because of all the data that would be lost once Yahoo deleted all the sites. 
Those sites are still available years on at https://www.oocities.org/ and https://www.geocities.ws/
To be clear, they are incomplete archives because it relied on the same crawling tactics that Google and Yahoo use, and if a site wasn't linked elsewhere it likely would fall through the cracks.
But with DPReview I think that would be less of an issue. The primary issue would be hosting all that data, as while it might not cost a lot for Amazon it probably would cost a bit for a normal person. There also then would be the issue of whether Amazon would object and take legal action. Perhaps reaching out to the Internet Archive to see if they could take this project on with some volunteers might be worth doing?
Just an idea that I haven't seen discussed really yet. It would at least preserve and make all that data available.

I mean it quite literally, how does the boot of Jeff Bezos and Amazon taste? This kind of corporation apologia is ruining the world. And this is me being polite.

If you think that those running DPReview had that much control to do any of those things without Amazon's approval you don't understand how corporations work. That isn't to absolve the people at DPReview of all responsibility, but when you sell your company to a corporation you cease to have that kind of control.

I know everyone wasn't a fan, but one less camera media outlet is not good. Such are the risks when you sell your site to a larger company that only cares about the bottom line, I guess. Not good news for the community as a whole, and really unfortunate for all those who are losing their jobs.

I think there are better cameras out there for what this camera is marketed for, but for those who've spent the last several years watching YouTubers gush about the A7Siii or the FX3 but couldn't afford one, I think this will be popular with them. I think we forget that the "famous" YouTubers are but a small fraction of those trying to create successful YouTube channels. There are millions of people on there trying to become the next big YouTuber but with limited resources. This is a camera that will probably appeal to them. They were probably ready to whip their credit cards out the second every reviewer said "it's like a A7Siii but for half the price."

I think there are better cameras out there for what this camera is marketed for, but for those who've spent the last several years watching YouTubers gush about the A7Siii or the FX3 but couldn't afford one, I think this will be popular with them. I think we forget that the "famous" YouTubers are but a small fraction of those trying to create successful YouTube channels. There are millions of people on there trying to become the next big YouTuber but with limited resources. This is a camera that will probably appeal to them. They were probably ready to whip their credit cards out the second every reviewer said "it's like a A7Siii but for half the price."

I thought of a use for it, as a gimbal cam.
Then I remembered the ZV-E10 exists at 1/4 of the price.
This new boy, the Sony Narcissist or whatever it is called, really is a turd of a camera.
At sub 1k cost, OK, maybe I would give it a pass, but at what they are asking?! 😵‍💫

I think there are better cameras out there for what this camera is marketed for, but for those who've spent the last several years watching YouTubers gush about the A7Siii or the FX3 but couldn't afford one, I think this will be popular with them. I think we forget that the "famous" YouTubers are but a small fraction of those trying to create successful YouTube channels. There are millions of people on there trying to become the next big YouTuber but with limited resources. This is a camera that will probably appeal to them. They were probably ready to whip their credit cards out the second every reviewer said "it's like a A7Siii but for half the price."