Mark Romero 2

Kind of bummed to hear that they are doing the Bluetooth thing, and specifically with the Atomos Blue, as I just got Deity TC-1.

Also, noted that the Tascam DR-10L PRO is using the Atomos Blue sync as well. 

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Do however consider if you've got the right body of work / showreel / connections to have a real shot at making it up to that next left? If not, maybe buy the Sony FX30 bodies first. Then in a year or two get the FX6 (especially as they'll be even more affordable secondhand by then), and just rent an FX6 until then if you need it. 

Thank you, that sounds like probably the best course of action. I do need to get my body of work / show reel in order first. It's... dismal...

One question about the FX series: Do you have any idea how well do adapted Canon EF / EF-S lenses work on them with an adapter (probably Sigma MC-11). The Canon EF lenses are ones that work well on the MC-21 adapter on my Panasonic S1 and S5, namely, the EF 16-35 f/4 L IS, the Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, Canon EF-s 10-18 STM (because Panasonic bodies shoot 4K 60p / 50p with an aps-c crop), EF 85mm f/1.8. 

I know that none of them are "cinema" lenses and aren't even highly rtes as stills photo lenses, but I am just trying to figure out lens costs as well if / when buying a Sony camera. 

BTW: I still have my a6500, but I can't get decent colors out of it (not the fault of Andrew, just s-log is kind of a disaster on those 8-bit cameras), as well as an a6000 (nice 1080p, overheats though) and an a5100 (again, nice 1080p, but REALLY overheats). And as mentioned have a couple of Sony aps-c lenses. Although I should probably sell them soon as long as I can still get SOME money for them???

3 hours ago, kye said:

If you haven't done it already, I suggest you do a test to see how much you can zoom in post before it becomes visible.  I did this test and was able to zoom to 150% without degradation.  

Here's what I recommend (and I did):

1. Get your sharpest lens
2. Find a subject with sharp edges / textures
3. Put high contrast lighting on the subject, so the edges have maximum contrast
4. Setup up the shot, be sure to stop the lens aperture down 2-3 stops from wide open so you're in the sharpest part of the lens
5. Take one shot from this perspective
6. Move the camera a bit closer, refocus, take another shot
7. Repeat 6 a few times
8. In post, take the first shot and crop it to roughly match each subsequent shot
9. For each crop, go back and forth between the cropped and normal shots, and add sharpening to the cropped shot until the overall level of perceptual sharpness is even
10. Apply a colour grade across all the shots
11. Export / upload the footage how you would normally deliver
12. Compare each pair of FOVs and see if that level of crop is acceptable

I've done this test, and I've seen others do this test too, and the results are surprising.  I've also seen a bunch of morons do this test but without applying sharpening, then when the sharpness didn't match they declared that they needed the extra resolution - talk about embarrassing yourself in public!

Of course, this test is grossly unfair, as in real shooting it takes a much greater difference to notice, and what is visible on the timeline is often not visible in the export (and is obliterated in the stream...)

Thanks for the suggestion. It is something I can try out. I know that Resolve Studio version (which I have) has a super scaling feature as well. I think the implementation is a bit clunky because, IIRC, you can only up-res in certain pre-defined increments (like double and quadruple the size, or something like that... don't have it open right now). 

In most cases where I punch in during post, I am only punching in by 40% or less.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

You can see what I mean about them not standing still; RED just announced this:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/01/25/v-raptor-8k-vv-x-v-raptor-xl-8k-vv-x-global-shutter-cameras/

Has all of this: global shutter, mirrorless mount, 8K, TC, genlock, SDI, etc etc etc (you kinda sort of ish "have built in NDs", but not really. As the EF adapter can have NDs built into it, but you won't have the clear ND option. And of course no NDs if working with RF Mount lenses) 

Yeah ok, the  RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV [X] is however a $30K camera. But it will still have a knock on domino effect pushing down the secondhand prices of all the RED models below it. Making it even harder for a future Panasonic BS2H / EVA2 (or Varicam LT mk2) to compete against it. 

My bad, I totally forgot about the box-ish style cameras with NDs which are:

Sony VENICE (all versions) + Sony BURANO

Still, it doesn't change my point much, as the cheapest of those is the BURANO at US$25K. 

First, thanks for the three replies. You do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the current camera situation at most of the different budget levels.

Yes, I agree with your points. 

My needs are that MOST of the time I would be a one-man-band doing it all myself. 

And used EVA1s are fairly inexpensive (around $2,500 on ebay).

And the 24-015 f/4 L Mount I use currently on my Lumix S1 and S5 OG is a great lens for product photography.

But...

I would also want to pick up work where I can as, say, a cam op on an agency job, or as a second shooter at a wedding, etc., and here in California, it is much like the rest of the USA (and probably the world) that agencies pretty much want Sony operators, and wedding shooters want second shooters who shoot Sony, too.

(Of course I am sure there are some agencies that want RED or Canon, but it seems most of the agency-originated jobs are going to Sony shooters. Unless I am missing somethign completely.)

I don't HATE Sony, and in some instances it would make (much) more sense than Panasonic and / or L Mount.

My only real gripes are why they don't have 6K resolution? I don't need to DELIVER in 6K, but kind of need it to cover up jump cuts (the kind of talent I work with struggles even with a teleprompter, so being able to cut to a tighter shot can cover up a jump cut... of course, I have a second camera too).

Also, I saw a video comparing an FX6 to the Varicam LT (I know, an EVA1 is not a Varicam LT), and I certainly liked the image from the Varicam a lot more than the FX6:

Oh, my other gripe is, why can't they put waveforms on their hybrid cameras? And why no Timecode??? (I got the Deity TC-1 and I use Resolve so I can convert audio timecode to meta data in Resolve, but still, since I suck at audio, I like to have as much redundant audio as possible and using up the audio jack on an a7 IV with the TC-1 timecode is kind of a bummer.)

Also, S-Cinetone is trash.

And I can't stand "creators" who buy sony because of the amazing autofocus, and then shoot in anamorphics on them. 

Anyway, so now that I am done complaining, I will probably end up with an FX3 and an a7 IV since I need a camera for still photos (that has a mechanical shutter for firing  flash).

Heck, Maybe I will even get an FX30 since I still have a handful of Sony aps-c lenses like the 10-18 f/4 and the 50mm E OIS, and about four copies of the 16-50 pwoerzoom kit lens that all suck and I can't even seem to give them away...

48 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Eva1 might look creamier than the S1H regarding sharpness due to a 100% video focused oplf. @IronFilmhas had some projects with an Eva I think. I imagine the color science to be nicer. But that's in my imagination. Youtube shows that people love the image they are getting out of the Eva but so say S1h users or BM lovers. One guy put it right inbetween S1H and Varicam with the latter giving a true high end image. S1H beats it handsdown in lowlight though from the comparisons I've seen.

Thanks for the input.

I have tried looking up some comparisons, but it really doesn't seem to be a particularly popular camera.

Any idea if the EVA1 body has lens compensation for EF / EF-S lenses built in? I know that my S1 / S5 DOESN'T have compensation for, say, my Canon EF-S 10-18 IS STM, so I have to spend a bit of time fixing the vignette and the barrel distortion.

Hopefully I will find some of @IronFilm productions on it.

Thanks again.

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

For stills/photo, zero complaints or issues. Shooting sports, well yes, there are better options but I shoot events, hybrid, 2 years with the S1H and it’s my favourite body for this that I have ever used. At no time have I ever considered the AF or said, “I wish it was better”. 

Unfortunately, my experience has been a bit worse, with my S1 (and S5) and the 24-105 f/4

For events, I often end up with severly back-focused images. I mean, where the S1 / S5 just COMPLETELY missed the people and focused on the background trees or bushes some 10 or 20 or 50 feet behind them.

Strangely enough, when I adap a Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM (that's the third version of that lens) with the MC-21, I NEVER get back-focused images. It just takes a bit longer to gain focus, and there is no AF-C with adapted images on the S1 or original S5.

When the S1 / S5 backfocuses, I have to override it with manual focus, but my eyes aren't great (and neither is the LCD nor the EVF on the S5).

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I only have ONE Lumix / native L Mount lens, the 24-10 f/4

Otherwise adapting Canon EF or Minolta MD / MC and a couple of Sony A-Mount lenses.

Is there any real benefit for a small / one man do-it-all shooter to choose an EVA1 in 2024 over an S1H?

I noticed that after they deleted / banned all the spammers, there is hardly anyone posting in the EVA1 Facebook group. Like, one post every 6 months, and unlikely for that post to get a reply. Makes me feel that NO ONE is using one anymore.

Is the image quality of the EVA1 still better than the S1H?

Are there other benefits besides some of the I/O and maybe making a better impression on clients?

I could certianly buy both an S1H and an EVA1 used, but I will need at least ONE hybrid camera fo some kind with good autofocus (both for video AND stills), which neither has.

And I am concerned about the viability of using a Panasonic ANYTHING if I am going to try and get work as a second shooter (or through agency assigned jobs) since they will probably be looking for someone who either shoots Sony or Canon (or RED???) 

Cureently have an S1 and an original version of the S5. Main reason to upgrade would be for 6K and / or all-i. Plus the original S5 only shoots 4K with a 30-minute max if shooting in 10-bit.

Thanks in advance.

On 1/22/2024 at 8:37 AM, MrSMW said:

The principle skills are probably determination combined with the ability to multitask...

Well... that's gonna be rough for me, since my wife says I am horrible at just unitasking. 

On 1/22/2024 at 2:29 AM, kye said:

Very very carefully?

Or in my case, very, very badly...

On 1/7/2024 at 12:41 PM, MrSMW said:

V-log daytime inc. indoors and only flip to the Flat profile once it’s dark and we are firmly in 6400+ territory.

S1H can have forward tracking AF issues  but sometimes is pretty OK f4-8, but 4k or 6k, not really noticed much difference, other than crop mode obviously has the best AF.

I never walk with these things. It’s gimbal or stand still. I can’t see anything but issues when folks expect and try and use cameras without proper stabilization.

I’ve seen so many examples of ‘gimbal like’ and nah, it’s not. 

Maybe in some instances with mid length lenses and a ton of extra stab (and cropping) in post, but sorry, just not a fan of any of it and it’s all a bit (a lot) square peg, round hole and wishful thinking to me.

Action cams and the DJI Pockets etc, fair enough, but ‘proper’ cameras. Gimbal or steady cam it etc IMO.

Personal opinion and preference.

This might have already been discussed here, but I wonder how you (and others) feel about the image quality of the S5II / S5IIX versus the S1H or the original S5?

It seems like half the owners of the S5II find it to be fine / on-par with the first generation S-series cameras, while about half the owners really dislike how it looks.

I am talking about h.264 and h.265 recorded internally.

Apparently, V-LOG is pretty similar between the generations, but when shooting in pircure profiles other than V-LOG, there are complaints that the noise reudction is turned up so high that fine details are lost, and at the same time, edge sharpening is cranked up too high.

https://youtu.be/EomxyU1rUhs?si=nlX1Fb8Owvu5yoHD

Also, i got to ask: how in the world are you able to shoot both video AND stills at a wedding? Even though it is relatively easy to set up custom settings on Panasonic cameras, switching back and forth between video and stills is just so daunting. I generally shoot video on a gimbal (weebill S), with the B Cam (my S1) on a tripod. Having to switch from video to stills when on a gimbal seems impossible to me.

On 5/2/2022 at 9:24 PM, newfoundmass said:

I had no intention of getting it until I was offered a great deal on one. Now I'm contemplating picking up a second one and going with two S5s and one GH5 for my set up.

Depending on your needs / circumstances, you MIGHT consider an S1 as a second FF cam instead of another S5. You can find used S1 cameras for not much difference compared to a used S5.

The S1 main benefits are the unlimited 4K 10-bit and 6K 30fps internal at 10-bit 4:2:0.

The 6K is limited to 15-minutes, I am pretty sure.

You will need to get the filmmakers upgrade ($200)

On the S5, there is something similar, in the confusingly named 6K photo mode (which is really 5K video but with photographic EXIF data instead of video EXIF data???) I haven't messed around with it a lot but I think it is ok.

The S1 has a nicer (tilt-up only) screen and better EVF and is great on sticks (I have wonky eyesight so I really appreciate the better LCD / EVF / Focus Peaking of the S1). Also for handheld I like the S1 better than the S5 (better IBIS, heavier body = less micro-jitters for me), but much prefer the S5 over the S1 when shooting on a gimbal (on my Weebill S).

Anyway, food for thought.

They both do suffer from some moire / aliasing. 

And, of course, Panasonic autofocus.

14 hours ago, kye said:

My first experience feeling very old (apart from interactions with young kids) was seeing a medical specialist for something and thinking "are they old enough to have graduated from medical school yet?".

I suspect that most of life as (say) an octogenarian would be simply looking around and seeing kids running everything and being amazed the world doesn't fall apart.

I know what you mean about that, since I worry about the youth of today as well. But then every once in a while I realize that kids are a lot smarter than I am.

On 4/30/2022 at 8:51 PM, IronFilm said:

(yeah, the MTBing is pretty cool too)

 

 

Watching this video made me feel old.

Very old.

I agree with @webrunner5 that aps-c cameras for sony are kind of at a dead end (at least until the whole supply situation clears up, which should be around 2035 or so, if we are lucky).

I have been waiting for a Sony aps-c mirrorless camera with 10-bit video since about four years ago. I got so tired of waiting I got the Panasonic S1 and S5 instead. 

13 hours ago, kye said:

I'd wait for the firmware update with the Prores for the 4K and 1080p modes.  They rushed Prores implementation on everything but the full resolution to get it out the door, so might have rushed the other aspects of the other resolutions too perhaps.

To me the GH6 is like the GH5 was for ages - half baked.  Drawing any conclusions on the camera at this point, considering Panasonics track record with these things would really say more about the reviewer than it would about the camera.

... and in reference to the video clip that everyone hated the grade on, if you're going to criticise a camera for what one person does with it, well, may as well just poke your own eyes out with a fork because you'll never see images from a camera that you'll like.  That video looked incredibly good compared to some footage I've seen shot with an Alexa!

I think I might have just been airing my frustration in general with some of the limitations in codecs in general (on all mirrorless camera brands), and also the overuse of the term "cinematic" by youtubers with a GH6 (or a RED or an Alexa). 

I guess to me one of the big factors in making something look "filmic" or "cinematic" is how the highlights roll off, especially on the face. I can live with reduced dynamic range and blown highlights, just much prefer blown highlights that don't have that halo of supersaturated color around them. 

Of course, as you alluded, a lot of that is how well the operator sets exposure (on the face). But I know with my Sony cameras, if I used any profile OTHER than S-LOG 2, I would get nasty super saturated colors when luminesce values get near clipping. (It is slightly better on the S1 / S5 as far as I have experienced, but I almost ALWAYS use V-LOG on the S1 / S5 so I can't really say for sure that the NON v-log codecs are better than the Sony ones in this regard).

I am still totally thinking of getting a GH6. I could sell my Oly E-M1 MK II and my three sony aps-c cameras to help offset the cost a bit. But the thing is, E-M1 MK II just works. I don't ask a lot of it (just 8-bit natural profile at 30fps) using the 14-42mm kit zoom lens and it gets the job done.

It's the perfect PhD camera (Press Here, Dummy!)

I think if I got the GH6 I would spend too much time overcomplicating things :)

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

The DR in that video looks like 8 stops. Not so hot, probably user error, I hope.

Not sure what picture profile they were using but I really dislike the highlight roll off in many of the shots. I am going to  guess that it was probably CineD 2 or something other than V-LOG, which from my experience on the S5 and S1, has better roll off .

Not saying I could do better than the videographer who shot this. Just saying that with a lot of cameras this has been one thing that bugs me (probably more than it bugs a lot of other videographers).

The thing that's painful is that the AF is so nice on my Panasonic S1 and S5 is SO NICE... when it actually works!!!

The fact that the lenses like the 24-105 f/4 have minimal focus breathing and pseudo-parfocal ability* just makes it even more frustrating.

I don't use / need autofocus that much currently, but would like the ability to rely on it in the future for more run-and-gun shooting.

9 hours ago, leslie said:

The trick is not to send them too far down wind otherwise you might have a bit of an unplanned walk in front of you. 

Yes, as in a walk to your nearest electronics store to buy a new drone 😉

Planning is everything.

17 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Yes I agree. Though when talking cinematography that video speaks to what I was saying. The beach shots in that video are so beautiful they make a cinematographers job easy.

On the other hand, just as I can make any expensive guitar sound bad, I can also make any beautiful beach look like a trash dump.

I'm an expert in ugly.

😞

On 3/31/2022 at 7:30 AM, webrunner5 said:

Why do they still use such a small sensor in this day and age? Jesus, they act like it is 1988.

The Mini and the nano are designed to come in at under 250 grams weight so that they can avoid certain FAA regulations (possibly other regulations in other countries, too). Hence, the need for small EVERYTHING on them.

3 hours ago, Simon Young said:

It's a real shame they didn't test the DCI 4K option. In both the EM1iii and the EM1ii this is clearly the best option, with significantly more detail than the UHD readout.

Yup. At to me, it is a shame that in the E-M1 MK II, Olympus didn't include DCI 4K at 23.98fps, only at 24fps (maybe at 30fps too, can't remember).

As for the OM-1, why don't they allow 10-bit video in the other picture profiles besides OM LOG and HLG??? 

And as far as I understand it, All-I is only available in FHD??? It seems that all UHD and DCI 4K  is only Long GOP 😞

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I thought they added HLG video in version 1.6 ?

Has to be in Manual exposure, 10bit MOV format and the lowest ISO is capped to 320 according to the manual.

Maybe they hide it as an option if you are not in Manual and 10bit MOV ?

It wouldn't be the first time Panasonic have hidden a picture profile.....

You da' man @BTM_Pix

20 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Then I hit a snag. The S1R doesn’t shoot log or even HLG

Huh??? I was 90% sure that the S1R can shoot HLG.

11 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The S1H and S1 seem to have more noise reduction going on in the 6K 420 H265 modes, looks less organic

Huh... hadn't noticed that, but I have only shot a couple of clips in a couple of projects in 6K internally  on the S1 (never shot an S1H... don't know if there is any difference if they are both shot in Long GOP). I will have to try it out. Probably just my fading eyesight that makes me not notice.