Mark Romero 2

7 minutes ago, Geoffrey said:

I have been using the S5 human detect continuous AF quite a lot recently. I shoot using the CineD2 profile (standard kit lens) and mainly outdoors, hand held. It works pretty well and am a bit baffled by the criticism it gets here. Maybe that is because people expect 99% success with it when in reality it is more like, I dunno 85%?

OK, but in some situations, 85% success = 0% usability. It means having to re-shoot something (often more than once).

Shooting V-LOG at 30fps in overcast / open shade conditions I would say that it was about 50% accurate, and sometimes it would lock focus on someone and then just decide to go off and focus in the background for no reason. This was using face detect and then switching to one area with face detect. The AF would just wander off 😞

Using the Panasonic 24-105 f/4

12 hours ago, kye said:

Wow, the S1 has no ALL-I codecs?  That's a bummer.

Correct, all the codecs on the S1 / S5 / S1R are Long GOP (unless you hook up a recorder, where you can record in ProRes, ProRes RAW, or BRAW.

Further, the S5 has internal recording time limits has no internal 6K (the S1 does). There is some "cheat" with 6K photo mode but I haven't used it really. I read that it is only 5K, not 6K or something like that.

@interceptor121 Did an examination of the h.264 codec Long GOP frame distributions and came to the conclusion that while the 10-bit codec have more color fidelity and flexibility, the 8-bit codecs offer better distribution of the GOP frames and would be less likely to suffer from motion artefacts.

I don't believe he was able to analyze the h.265 codec though, but he said from his experience it is probably better to use 200Mbps h.265 instead of the 150 / 100Mbps h.264 codecs.

I will admit that I haven't even TRIED shooting in h.265 at all because I thought it would kill my computer. Maybe my RTX 2060 Super has hardware acceleration for it though??? (I don't know how well my i7-6700, which is now three or four generations old, will handle decoding h.265).

I guess there is always transcoding, right???

1 hour ago, kye said:

Some thoughts.....

Think of the total ecosystem that you have
This includes cameras, lenses, batteries and chargers, and all your accessories, and then build a system that works for you.  Think about failures and having equipment redundancy too.
My travel setup is two MFT cameras and an action camera.  If I want to shoot simultaneously then I can use the same lenses across the two bodies.  If my action camera dies I can use a wide on a second body to emulate it.  If my main camera (GH5) and lens (Voigt 17.5mm) and mic (Rode VMP) disappear then I have backups for those three (GX85, 14mm f2.5, Rode Video Micro) which are small and I can easily carry as a spare.  If my backup / 2nd setup dies then I can use my action camera in a pinch and there's also my phone.

The difference in DoF is 2 between MFT and FF, so to match the FOV and DoF of a 50mm at F4 on a FF camera, you would need a 25mm F2 lens for an MFT camera.  But you should also think about the base ISO of 2000 on the GH6 as I'd assume you'd be using V-Log and DR Boost, which might require new NDs to suit the new lenses you'll probably have to buy.  
Don't just think of the fact that MFT has faster lenses with the same DoF, because the sensor is smaller and therefore has higher noise and therefore requires more light to get the same performance, but then technology of the sensor and processing all apply and then there's the sensors with dual-ISO or dual-gain and then there's blah blah blah blah.  Long story short - there are too many variables that factor in to be able to predict low-light capability.
The only real way to compare low-light is to look at a test of the two cameras you're comparing shooting the same scene with equivalent lenses.

Thanks for the food for thought.

The one saving grace for me is that none of the m43 wide zooms have lens stabilization, and they all rely on IBIS instead.

For me, that will be difficult because even though I shoot my real estate videos on a gimbal, I basically NEED only TWO-axis IBIS, along with the three axis that are controlled with lens stabilization.

Otherwise, when shooting equivalent full frame of 16- 30mm (i.e., 8-15mm on m43) you get a lot of corner warping if only using IBIS.

At least as far as I have experienced so far. Maybe the GH6 will somehow rectify the corner warping problem???

Thank you again, @kye, for once more making my life a living Hell...

😀

In all seriousness, I am thinking about getting a GH6 to replace my S1.

The better autofocus, lighter weight, bigger lens selection, ProRes 4:2:2 internal, ability to record to an SSD, all-i codecs, appeals to me, and at 4K 60fps (using the dynamic range boost) of the GH6, the DR is going to be roughly equivalent since I tend to be one of those people more likely to stop down a lens, and the added DOF of m43 would allow me to use faster lenses for the same DOF (so use one-stop lower aperture???) Math is not one on of my skills.

My only two real issue after that is mixing and matching lenses with my full frame S5, and the fact that the S5 has a thirty-minute time limit (and no internal 6K). 

I guess logically I would sell the S5, keep the S1 and add the GH6. But logic and I aren't really on speaking terms 🙈

9 minutes ago, projectwoofer said:

The S5 is still a relatively new camera, I don't think a replacement comes in the near future. My prediction is: a replacement for the S1H will come first, maybe next year? And after that we could see an S5 replacement, maybe in 2024 or so. I don't think there will be a replacement for the S1 though...

I agree, it is a new camera, and probably will see an S1H replacement soon(ish).

On the other hand, I can always dream, right?

Just saying that if they somehow put PDAF and allowed recording out to an SSD via USB, well, I think you might see a lot of youtubers with videos titles like, "I'm leaving CaNikSony for Panasonic."

The GH6 is looking better and better to me...

On the other hand, with all the insane deals on the S5 lately (like, $2,200 for the S5 body PLUS the 20-60mm lens PLUS the 85mm f/1.8) you got to think that SOMETHING is up regarding an S5 replacement???

I am, though, a DR junkie, and apparently the a7 IV has close to one more stop of DR than the Panasonic Full Frame S-Series of cameras (S-LOG 3 compared to V-LOG), so I might go that way instead (and yes, give up the great stabilization, the waveforms, the friendly interface, the luminance spot meter, the ability to shoot at 6K if I were ever to get an external recorder).

No idea how S-LOG 3 in aps-c mode on the a7 IV looks though. 

Here's a side-by-side-by side comparison between GH6, GH5 and S5. Unfortunately she doesn't state whether she is using Dynamic Range boost or what picture profiles or lenses, nor which autofocus settings she is using, so it is going to have only limited value. But at least it is a head-to-head-to head comparison that is "sort of" real world related.

11 minutes ago, kye said:

I suspect you are talking about this video?

Yes, that was the one.

I don't think I would notice ANY difference between the all-i internal codecs and prores external unless I was keying, which i freaking HATE to do (I mean, I hate even trying to light a green screen so you can imagine what I am like at 4:00am trying to key around hair, but then again, I am using the 150Mbps 10-bit 4:2:2 Long GOP from the S1 or S5).

14 minutes ago, kye said:

In terms of ISO2000 compared to 800 (wasn't 800 the native ISO for Vlog on the GH5?) isn't it only slightly more than a stop more exposed?  If so, you only need to add a single-stop of ND to your setup and it's the same.  Or am I missing something?

I'm not sure what it is on the GH5. On the S1 / S5, V-LOG native ISO is 640.

But your point is well made. It is technically only a stop and 1/3rd (or 2/3rds) more.

Normally I shoot with a three-stop ND filter on the S5 during the daytime, but I am usually shooting at around f/8 to f/11. So I think mostly for my shooting I would end up around f/4 on m43. 

So maybe around five or six stops of ND would be what I am used to.

24 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I will be the first to admit that it does seem to be just about everything other than really reliable AF everything a person really needs. With all the super-fast cheaper lenses out now even the DOF low light thing is off the table.

I still wish they would set in stone what and when the firmware updates are coming. They did a good job on it no doubt, but I think they had to do it to be honest. If you can't shoot decent video with this camera you need to give it up.

True. 

I have been thinking about selling all my Sony aps-c gear and my Panasonic S1 and getting the GH6 (and use my S5 on a gimbal for real estate because I am often shooting at ISO 4,000). I have an Oly E-M1 MK II for fun, so it would be nice to have lenses that could work well on the GH6 and the E-M1 MK II.

The DR of the GH6 in DR Boost mode is going to be more or less the same as the S5 / S1 when shooting 4K 60p (since it shoots it in a crop at 4K 60p)

Just the thought of shooting at ISO 2,000 and all the ND filters is kind of an annoyance. 

Wishing they had internal NDs

I saw a video a while back comparing the all-i codecs on the GH5 with prores recorded on a Ninja and it seemed like the prores was better at avoiding macroblocking in motion. So I guess in theory it allows better keying in post. I thought the video was by Andy Dax, but apparently it was by another group of filmmakers (in Norway)? I can't seem to find it on the Andy Dax channel.

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Something I forgot to add was the latest Power Zoom lenses are just killer on OIS with the GH5 and I am sure for the GH6. You really don't even need a Monopod to get great stuff, it works that good handheld. It is the best on the market. Scary steady.

Just what I DIDN'T need to hear: another reason to buy a GH6 😬

Hopefully, Panasonic NEVER makes the continuous AF reliable 🤞

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

It pretty much always breaks down to the more expensive the lens the better the output. But if you are a first time M4/3 user not sure I would go for the best. I like the ones that have the Manual Focus clutch in them as the GH line is not the best at AF.

Good point.

Also, good on Panasonic for allowing the ability to punch in while recording. Really wish my S1 and S5 had that ability.

8 hours ago, Davide DB said:

my question is: who shoot at ISO 12800?

I did shoot some cityscape video over the last couple of christmas seasons on the S1 and the 12,800 footage looked surprisingly good.

Of course, I haven't had time to edit any of it in to anything coherent.

But I get your point. It's a lot less common to shoot at ISO 6400 or above.

17 hours ago, projectwoofer said:

Yeah, I quickly tested that. It is much less pronounced with HLG rather than V-Log, which is not a good choice for underexposured images anyway and only starting to be visible with 5 or more stops of underexposure. In which point the image lacks so many details and contrast that is in my humble opinion unusable anyway even without the horizontal lines. When and why would anyone want to use an image underexposed by 5 or 6 stops is beyond me to tell you the truth. Not in my use scenario...thanks for pointing this out though, it was a fun experiment!

Yeah, I haven't tested out a lot, but in general I have found at higher ISOs with VLOG (above the 4,000 second gain stage) it is just better to crank the ISO then underexpose and try to push it in post.

4 hours ago, FS670ES said:

Thank you very much. I really hoped it would be better now. I looked at the video below and though that it's quite ok but video only shows couple of scenarios. 

I re-watched that video.

True, Shane was able to keep the autofocus mostly in focus. If I were able to get as good continuous autofocus as he does, I probably would buy the 24mm (or the 20-60 zoom) and stop entertaining any thoughts of getting an a7 IV.

I have unfortunately been unable myself to get anything close to that level of AF performance with either my S5 or my S1.

On the other hand, I only have the Panasonic 24-105 f/4 lens. It was one of the first lenses that Panasonic released for the S-Series of cameras, so maybe the more recent prime lenses just focus better??? (I have updated the firmware on my bodies and my lens to the latest firmware release).

I think in bright scenes with a lot of contrast, shooting in the standard profile, you might get useable autofocus. 

On the other hand, I have shot scenes in V-LOG when it was still rather bright but less contrast (overcast skies, or in open shade), and the autofocus was just completely unusable.

Most of the times that I have tried using autofocus, it works around 75% of the time, but then I end up having to re-do shots to get it right. This would be a scenario where I am doing something similar to a focus pull on a slider shot, where I am focusing on a foreground object and when I slide past the object and I want it to focus on a background object.

Or if I am panning (or tilting) from a foreground object to the talent's face. About 75% of the time it will transition ok, otherwise not.

The tough thing for me is that if I then quickly switch it in to AF-S (which is usually more dependable), it STILL might not focus on the talent. 

Anyway, it is frustrating.

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

I thought his review was so exaggerated. He was like "when ypu want the best impossible image, M43 is dead". Whoa, it almost seemed like he was dumped today or yesterday. 

I actually didn't watch 99% of the review. I had to run out the door for a twilight photo shoot so I just skipped ahead to the autofocus test.

I will watch the Media Division review tomorrow when I have time. Gotta edit till 2:00 this morning.

I guess I should THANK Panasonic for the money they are saving me. Not because I won't be buying a GH6 (I won't, but that is due to the fact that I REALLY want a camera with more dynamic range than my S1 and S5), but because I won't be buying more expensive L-Mount glass for my aforementioned S1 and S5.

I guess I am just going to invest in a really good follow focus system instead and use Canon EF, Minolta, and Sony A-Mount lenses.

Just started watching Gerald Undone's review. I skipped ahead to the autofocus part. Here's what he said:

"Just because it tracks you, doesn't mean the autofocus looks good. It still looks bad, in my opinion."

Well... as Quick Draw MaGraw would say: That's a fine "How do you do."

I'm gonna head down to local saloon now...

23 hours ago, herein2020 said:

By comparison the R6, S5, and GH5 all had great high quality flip screens.

This scares me.

Mostly because i find the S5 screen to be living in the danger zone. I am certainly one of the more reckless camera users around (I mean, considering I mostly shoot real estate, so my level of recklessness might be different from those trying to capture footage of Big Foot), and I am constantly worried of destroying the flip out screen on my S5.

So the thought that a camera company has a flip out screen that is even MORE FLIMSY than the S5 makes me shudder.

2 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

Reviews most certainly have had these cameras in hand for a number of weeks now.

Hooray!!!

I think we are all anxious to know what filmmaker extraordinaire Jared "Fro" Polin thinks of the GH6 😛 

6 hours ago, lmackreath said:

does anyone have the issue on the s5 that means it keeps reverting the movie mode back to mp4 format?

my main movie dial is set to .mov, the problem is if I then mov the dial to S&Q  - that changes the format for slow footage to mp4 - which i understand. the problem is sometimes, not always - when I then switch back to movie mode dial it then keeps the mp4 format and screws up my settings - rather than reverting back to my .mov 4k setting?? anyone else seen this?

Thanks for the heads up.

I don't know if that is "normal" behavior or not since I have never used the S&Q mode, but I thank you for bringing it up in case I ever do use S&Q, it gives me something to look out for.

If that is the way it is supposed to work (i.e., keep mp4 mode after using S&Q), I would definitely suggest to set up one of your custom slots for your most common .mov settings). 

Sorry that isn't a great answer and if I have time I will try out my S5 later today and see if mine does that too. 

2 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

..a Lumix "brand ambassador" doing a live, blow-by-blow simulcast during the official announcement? Thoughts?

So does that mean that reviewers / ambassadors DON'T have the GH6 in hand already?

I remember Sean Robinson saying about a month ago he has already seen / played with a GH6 (but then went on to say that he couldn't tell us anything about it). So I would have imagined that the likes of all our least-favorite youtubers would have had a chance to test it by now.

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Rolling shutter, battery life, weather sealed body, superior Ibis, compactness of lenses..

Admittedly, those are all good reasons to get the OM-1.

I am naturally skewed toward emphasizing dynamic range / latitude and low lights / high ISO performance, I guess.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Ha, just read Andrew's tweet:

"OM-1 is a nice camera but will sell exactly 0 units at £2000"

Well one muppet has pre-ordered a pair so we're 2 up on your 0 already 😉

Sooo... I am a bit curious...

Why go with the OM-1 over the Sony a7 IV???