anonim

To contribute with my usually pure enlightening voice - image wise (it seems that finally it is the most important gradient for you) I'd be more tempted with BMCC for slow, accurate, art short and documentary (cheap!) shooting. BMPC had never been considered as "signature" BM color achievement in BM users comunity - quite contrary. (Btw I had it, as BMCC and GH5 also.) https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44239&sid=0b25d9a83e49a7d0a0157e2c72845267

I'd say - it is very hard goal to achieve

The most important, I'd say - what is percentage of magnification and what iso? In spite of GH5s's nice/usable clean ooc image at higher iso, I've found (starting from introduction phase of GH5s) that it is mostly result of pretty (or too) strong/destructive NR treatmеnt - which, although efficient, is far of excellency of, say, Neat Video's, and under of (but closer) to that of Resolve's ...

(It is so nice when all contributions in discussion are well thought and equally relevant, making deeper our understanding of concerned topic. Just to say "thanks" to all participants.)

Is it possible that reason also may be (at least I'm suspecting so) lacking of internal software manipulation for electronic m43 lenses? For example, when I worked with BM cameras with m43 mount, I noticed pretty big amount of uncorrected distortion, not so well controled CA etc - that, although could be compromised, may prevents best professional results? In other words, is it possible that Panasonic's own wide gama of lenses is not optimized for professional use outside of cooperation with specific inner software solution that not exists in construction of EVA? So, lack of using of that inner corrections would revealed some weakness of these lenese... I've totally dismissed usage of native Panasonic lenses, but taking of Voigtlander's, Veydra's, SLR Magic's, Kowa's could be very tempting and interesting...

I think that really there's no serious reason for frustration I've just enjoyed one beautiful samples of snowflakes etc. at 240p (!) which I'd like to try/share with you as consolation...

+2

What I remember from days of using BM, is that raw file provide, at least for my eyes, an (important?) bit or two of more clarity in image reproduction. Very likely it is simply sum of all mentioned (indeed minuscule especially in a case of Prores HQ) differences in detail-ness. But - unwilling to be just impressionistic commentator, maybe something similar could be seen in this comparison: Edit: This little distinction imo actually may be crucial for achieving fantastic results of BM cameras as quite close to top cinema cameras... Because it is not matter of artificial sharpening, but of amount of details that BMPCC or BMMCC really can achieve. For examples, in one of the my most favorite clips from BMPCC there's - for me - missing of just that little bit of crispeness that would make experience as naturally stunning-real as from modern theater production

Usage of codec inside the camera processing while capturing and outside of computer in delivery process are not the same. Bluray distributed movies often have no more than 20-30 Mbps - do you think that result will be the same if footages had been captured at the same bitrate?

I had exactly the same experience - I'd even call difference more than slight, but it is likely just subjective meaning - more details, or more "texture", in result, I think, means or significantly contribute to more depth or "thickness" (or even DR impression) in the look... More important, from the same reason, here concerned earlier BM cameras are for me still today interesting "just" or exclusively because of raw workflow and that "fullness" of data and, consequently, impression, that's not so easy achievable out of codec-restricted material.

Maybe it is just excellent time/date and place to put now our best relax offers from which we restrained during the rest of the year!? From my side, as generous reward for the person with best proposition, I'm selling that exact model of NX1 adapter that Lucabutera offer to hacker, but for triple price because of memory to this legendary thread... I'm also selling @kidzrevil's part of a new Wall on USA/Mexico border, painted as Diego Rivera's mural in Eterna color emulation but with Canon science style...

@mercer Yes, it is quite understandable - samples from 5D3 are often simply wonderful and mesmerizing to my eyes. (And btw no, that is not my video, mine are always packed - or rather burdened - with more philosophic pretension Unfortunately, for me, camera, in fact, is not at all, or very little, personal choice - it is mostly, so to say, circumstantial choice, best middle compromise at the moment... It seems to me that only when all other practical matters of shooting are under someone's control - choice of camera as final signature is indeed free. That's not my case... For example, tomorrow, or day after, I'll go on shooting some scenes with extremely interesting person - girl who graduated at fine art/painting, but at the moment she above all other her interests is triathlon champion of, I think, Middle Europa and she is preparing for Tokyo Olympic game.... I made scenario about her life's hard background as decisive power in moment of competitive crisis - she is a a child of war refugees who lost everything but - as she also - love and memories of their lost paradise... It has to be movie equally about sportsman efforts and questions about value of memories, of dignity traces in quickly dissapearing life and brutally trivial world of humans as mostly brainwashed egoistic consumers and cruel hedonists/predators, politically still too divided into roles of imperial masters and oppressed second-race slaves. So, despite of all of that ambitions I desperately have no time to repeat anything with her, her time dictate mine (in this case it doesn't mean anything that I'm person of, say, important works in literature), I have to catch moments briefly and - as most important - with bare minimum instruments at disposal in quickly changeable interior and exterior circumstances... In a word, I have to have fully reliable compromise of easy portability-moving-ness, battery life, plenty of media space, take-and-leave external monitor/record-ness in combination with inner display quality on bright sun, base low angle shot capability, of course enough DR, as much as possible flexibility in post for repairing WB or framing mistakes, and maybe above all IBIS, etc... If it is not so, if I pay that lovely girl, if I have have enough time for framing, and if she has a time and will to patiently listen my directive - I'll take dear brick of, say, BMCC and put in on a gimbal or tripod, with crane, sliders... In fact, just if bare heart of BMCC might be in GH5 ibis body I'd take it - at the moment 4k is not any important condition for me, 60p and slow motion for me doesn't mean anything, problem of RS is purists exaggerating... Finally... unfortunately, although I have great respect and love toward Canon's achievements, I had never considering usage of Canon ("never", it means when several years ago I've found a time and spare money for more seriously play with visual messaging of mine ideas) - simply because of stupid character barrier in myself... As a company Canon always looks to me as Big boss, biggest name in a near disposable camera world, and all my life story forced me to always choose and support alternative way... Blackmagic, from the other side, and its role is for me almost revolutionary one - they offer Resolve to everybody, they resurrect Fusion which I embraced after Autodesk's killing of beloved Combustion...

My favorite was/still is first clasic BCC 2.5k, I was lucky to have and test 4 BM cameras... For some reason I'm especially fond to this video, although just 720p, color rendition, even sum of details, looks to me stunning.

Sorry if I may look like for the moment as some sort of "smart ass" - but, from my totally practical experience, 10bit possibility really shines in grading flexibility - in thickness or density of available colors (inside the range), not so much in DR?

In posted example? Somewhere at the end, around 8 min and after, night sky completely dance with noise... but DBounce called attention that it is base v-log ungraded footage, so that after grading noise disappear...

@kidzrevil Yes, I'm approaching that "problem" from the side of history of art - for a pretty long time studying works, reading (and writing) essays about painters and their oeuvres... BTW From my little theory about Fuji's color scheme should be such outcome - that usual subjects of your signature shots will not be so beneficially distinctive in rendering because of darker skin tones.

Yes, I think so... too much informations... GH5s and its unique DCI 60p 10 bit trait was not yet born when Inferno was constructed. Maybe even original hdmi cable transfer is not enough capable.

@kidzrevil Very likely... but it opens, I think, some other relevant topics for thinking and discussion... One could be, maybe: how similar - or, quite contrary, maybe in fact not - are Canon's and Fuji's color schemes... or, maybe it has to be firstly defined what is "pleasing" and if that notion could be universally accepted, etc. Actually, I'd like so much if here could be more discussions or reviews about personal analytic observations of that kind... how and why someone find some color scheme being more "cinematic", what concrete details and aspects find distinctive or so... in other words, I'm here interesting for learning and widening my perception. Personally, although actually I'm in love with colors in general so equally positively curious for every choice of manufacturer's contribution - I'm little bit struggling with application of Fuji's chosen color scheme for longer shots... as with too long exposure to intensive beauty of Burn-Jones canvases BTW very interesting sentence - "How the camera sees color sucks in comparison to how we remember color" - I'll think about that formulation.

This video concludes some clue of my thinking about "color science"... isn't it actually some sort of predefined color grading? Above of all questions about Fuji I was/am interested (of course) in phenomenon of its unique color. So, after inspecting samples, I think that, roughly speaking, there's always some color amplification/saturation precisely at the areas of color and tones around spectre of lighter complexion skin - and, proportionally, muted color in darker or equally precisely predefined color-oposite areas... That's make impression of pop-ing humans from background - as it were always made secondary corrections involving just that areas of color... When in the scene there's no similar distribution of tonal contrast, for my eye at least Fuji lose its distinctive uniqueness of "look" - to the level that low light scene are least distinguishable from comparative shots of other cameras... Especially in this example, it could be nicely seen (I think) because of many changing light conditions where "secondary-corecting-favorized" area disapeared. Moreover, here we have competing area of similar or identical color in background, so pop-ing impression is lowered... In a word: I came to (maybe interesting or bizarre) conclusion - that Fuji's subtle-contrasting color science is tempered as with the role-model of some prominent Pre-Raphaelite painters in mind, with similar technique used for making impression of slightly inner illumination: Edward Burn Jones before all...

I know that lovely model girl wouldn't agree with me about intention of conclusion - but, for example, Sony's sample doesn't at all discern wrinkles at her forehead in the interior-restoran footage, contrary to Panasonic. Is it possible that 12-60 is so much better lens than Sony's test-counterpar? Or effect of NR is so strong in case of Sony even at lower iso values?

Difference for me is unexpectedly significant image quality wise - GH5s is imo so obviously richer in color nuances and more detailed. But, strangely (?) GH5s samples are totally plagued with noise in lowlight test practically at any iso value. Maybe because of specific usage of vlog? I know about high native iso value for vlog, but dark sky looks horrible at any value in comparison with Sony.

For me this one looks significantly above other: capturing light reflections is brilliant, color distribution is smoother with better range, also distinction of face details looks to me more 3Dish prominent. Thanks for very usable post, sort of real life comparison.

GH5s under the see.