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Well, just because because there are a new kid in class doesn’t mean that the other cool kid is suddenly shit. Can we get past that, please?

The thing is - if it can do a 4K/UHD 60p readout. Then it should be possible to do a cropped 1080p240 readout as well ( haha being demanding on my side. Maybe it is saved for a future firmware update )

Ewwwww free stuff?! Affordability?! Groooosss, did I accidentally buy a camera for poor people?! I’m giving my P4K away, my iPhone Xs Max has better color science, IBIS AND shoots 4K60p! Oh and it was more expensive than the P4K so I won’t be embarrassed when shooting my next gig with it, PHEW!
But I saw tons of total nobodies using the camera back in August all over YouTube! It already exists, where is mine?! I bought the original on release, used it for gigs such as products for e-commerce companies back in day, as well as my partner using it for his street photography (he’s a famous photographer) so WHY do I have to wait?!?! It already exists?!?

Okay guys, PANASONIC DROPPED THE FUCKING BOMB. I ordered Lumix LX100-2 on announcement, was said to receive it OCT 1st!!! Then that changed to Oct 16th, which is tomorrow, and STILL no shipping, I looked at BH now and it says exp delivery Oct 25th?!? WTF Panasonic?! I will never trust a company that lies so much to its customers! I’m not canceling my preorder cause it was a gift to my partner, but listen PANA, you lost a customer in me! Panasonic = Evil corporation mentality, I’m nothing but a slave consumer to them.
 
edit: this is a Panasonic thread no?

I mean, the thread title has Cinema Camera in it. It doesn’t say the price range or hybrid segment. 
Personally I’m not here to compare this to any other camera, just to evaluate how well it does this things it promises to do. It doesn’t promise to have ibis, af or take high quality stills so there’s little point in comparing those elements to cameras that do, of course they’ll win.
Comparing it’s low light, clipping, audio etc is much more important. 
Rambling on about lack of features it never even hinted at having is almost as pointless and insightful as repeating the fact that it doesn’t fit in your pocket. 

Policies and lack of vision? 
Andrew is upset because he didn't get an invite to an event. That is the only reason. Before that, he was looking forward to the camera despite knowing that there was no IBIS, No flappy screen and no usable AF. We all knew it!
And which market are you pigeon hole-ing the Pocket4K into? It was never meant to compete with Hybrid or mirrorless cameras for travelling or your mobile phone like you keep comparing it to. Blackmagic have always been about Image quality and affordability and are the leaders of the market at this price point and even way above. They lead the market in image quality in a camera this small, they lead the market in image quality at this price, they have had 10bit in a tiny camera for years and mirrorless are only now catching up so how can you say they are 'old school and lack vision? I know this makes me sound like a BMD rep (as Andrew suspects) but It's just getting tiring here on the Pocket4K thread constantly hearing people complain about things that we have known all along and expecting the camera to be something it was never intended to be. 
@Andrew Reid I started a thread where people could complain all they like about how the Pocket4K isn't a mirrorless hybrid. It would have been nice to have all this complaint somewhere and kept this thread for useful information. Why did you close that thread? The conversation had already started on it. Now, for useful information here, people have to trawl through pages and pages of useless argument. Really disappointed in your 'my way or the highway' dictator-like attitude Andrew. 

Wow, this tread is like, I don’t even know what to say. At least people are civilized over at BMCuser, so will do the rest of my P4K chat over there and people can keep there GH5 chats here.
. Ciao

A Picture Profile is nothing like a LUT.
 
Nope, people will still make great home videos/ low budget films etc on the GH5 once the GH6 is out.
 
 OK, so the GH5s has TC input but you lose IBIS. Which camera are you comparing here?
Yep, needs an iditional add on making it a bigger, more expensive and heavier camera.
Again, bigger, heavier, more expensive
This is so much more than a codec and it's a massive advantage.
 
No but it suggests that the materials used are strong. 
 
Last time I checked, FCPX, Adobe Premiere and AE were not included with any Panasonic cameras. Has this changed?
Thats because you can't shoot raw on the GH5. I wasn't all that interested in this feature either when they announced it but having used it, it's actually really handy.
?‍♂️ Good grief.......obviously (or maybe not to some people)  the GH3 was not six years old when I had issues with it. It was less than a year old. 
 
You can use OIS lenses on the Pocket. You can put the pocket on many gimbals. I really don't know where you are getting your info from?
I'm not sure of your background, but I've shot on many cameras from BetacamSP (Manual Focus Only, no weather sealing) to the Red Weapon and Alexa (Again, MF only and no WR) and operated all the cameras without a crew. Just because you don't have AF doesn't mean you need a focus puller. Have you not seen operators pull focus off the barrel while looking through the EVF? It actually works!
Skate videos have been shot without AF for years.
 
Personally for my work and even just my creative standards, getting the shot but seeing some AF hunt is personally not acceptable to me. I'm pretty happy with how my eyes and focus ability are though and will trust them over AF.
 
Ive had the camera for two weeks now and used it without a crew. It's an easy camera to operate. I do wish the screen would tilt, it seems a shame to have such a nice big screen and not be able to use it all the time. At the same time, while most mirrorless cameras screens do tilt, I've always found them too small so like to rig a bigger monitor or EVF anyway. Even just the fact that the screen is so big on the Pocket means that using the touch screen is such a joy. Can't say the same about the touch screens I have used on mirrorless cameras. 
 
Ive always maintained that most people don't need RAW due to the large file sizes, hardware requirement etc. 10bit is enough for most people.
After thinking about Blackmagic RAW recently, I've now changed my mind. While large budget productions have much more control over varying conditions, solo shooters do not. A solo shooter has a lot to think about and it's more likely that a solo shooter is going to have to compromise on DR due to not having a gaffer on hand, or is going to forget to set the WB correctly for a shot due to lack of time and having so much to think about. If that shooter could now shoot RAW but in a flavour like BRAW which is easy for most modern computers to handle, can be shot to cheap SD cards and requires less  drive space than many 10bit codecs, then why wouldn't they want that? For run and gun shooters, BRAW makes a lot of sense where CDNG raw didn't. BRAW doesn't make a bad shooter great, but it can be used to fix mistakes easily......Good shooters, bad shooters.....we all make mistakes every now and again.
 
DBounce, this camera is obviously not for you and you have made that quite clear. I just don't understand why you feel the need to get on the Pocket4K thread and constantly argue about why the GH5 is better. I haven't felt the need to get on the GH5 thread and talk up the Pocket or shit can the GH5. Can we keep this thread about the Pocket4k, it's getting really tiring trawling through pages and pages of silly arguments.
I have made a new thread.....feel free to continue the argument there please. I'd like to converse here and share information with others that want/ have the camera.

Some threads are starting to read like somebody's personal SMS app. It's ridiculous.
Let's calm down, think before we post, if we haven't got anything new to add apart from 20 pages of chitchat!?! No? Let's not post!
I am fine with some chat but not EVERY PAGE. Deal?

The colour science is at least 80% done in post when you shoot LOG... and 99% when you shoot RAW!
The colour science is in Resolve and can be applied to any camera with a capable enough codec!
What we need to know are things like -
- Dynamic range in LOG and RAW
- Noise in shadows
- High ISO performance
- 8bit vs 10bit
And the job of the grading is to get the colour to match perfectly between the two cameras being tested.
I still have no idea how the GH5S and Pocket 4K really compare in dynamic range, noise and bit depth.

And there would be your mistake, because the P4k will require more resources to actually shoot nice footage. 
FYI: when I was at NAB I asked the Panasonic rep about ProRes Raw... and he said it could be added as a firmware update if they felt the need to up the ante should the P4k threaten the GH series. So don’t be surprised if that happens. Also Atomos and Apple are busy trying to convince camera manufacturers to get onboard with their new format.

My 4 year old has a Sony PD170.

Then do I have a deal for you?
 

Ah, shame on me for having a few drinks and getting sucked back into this constant debate about what is better!
Firstly, lets just get this out of the way. No camera is better! Is Panasonic still going to sell plenty of GH5's? YES! Is BMD still going to sell plenty of Pocket4K's? YES. 
Hasn't everyone learnt yet that no single camera is a 'GH5 Killer' or '>insert other camera model here< killer?
Now that that's out of the way other than codec the Pocket4k has the following that the GH5s doesn't:
- 5" 1080p screen
-  LUT support for viewing or also can be baked into recording
- Timecode input
- XLR input with phantom power capability
- USB-C recording
- CFast recording
- Editable metadata for every shot/ file including lenses used, focal length etc etc in each file
- Internal RAW
- Soon to get, Internal Blackmagic RAW for 12 bit RAW to SD Cards. BMD have confirmed it will be getting BRAW.
- Proper False Colour (not a silly LUT hack)
- Arguably, but seemingly better colour science.
- A far superior and easier to use menu system. This is a really underrated feature. Shooting with and operating the Pocket is just so much faster than any mirrorless camera.
- Build quality is arguable too. The Pocket4k uses a polycarbonate / carbon fibre mix. My $6000 mountain bike that gets a heap of abuse has a frame that is also made of plastic/ carbon fibre! It's extremely tough stuff and lightweight. To the uninitiated, the lightness can be confused with 'cheap feeing'. 
- A far superior workflow from capture to edit.
- Should I list all the features of DaVinci Resolve Studio here? 
I could go on and on. The Pocket4k is in it's infancy as a product. There is no reason why a battery grip couldn't be made for it.
Warranty wise, I had issues back in the day with a GH3 and Panasonic were a PITA to deal with for warranty. Had an issue with an UMP and BMD promptly fixed it.
Comparing a mirrorless hybrid to a camera designed more for cine use is really silly. You know most mirrorless cameras also have heaps of features that the Alexa doesn't? Alexa doesn't have AutoFocus, flash support, or NFC, or or dual SD card slots, or work on 100% of gimbals.........is it a bad camera? But where Alexa does win is image, codecs and ease of use for shooting video so it's a bit ridiculous to dismiss these in the Pocket4k as that is what is most important in a cine style camera. Video Codecs are NOT the priority in a hybrid mirrorless camera. While you may look at a spec sheet and see a long list of features on your mirrorless camera, I guarantee that a proper DP, editor or Colourist is not going to give two shits about 99% of those features. 
But hey, if the feature you find on the GH5 are important to you, then just buy a GH5. The great thing is, you can choose what works best for you.
But ultimately, all those features do not contribute to a nice 'cinematic' (I hate that word) image.
 
 
 

So many false informations here... It’s not specificaly targeted at you but yes you can totally record custom baked in LUT and that’s an overlooked killer feature. Actually the biggest feature after raw. You can basically get any look straight of camera. I have a review coming showing the power of it !
And so was I worried about highlights handling and DR when I first watched the early footage online. But I can tell you : this camera has more DR than the « legendary » original BMPCC. Once again, I’ll show it in my review. So to sum up : saying that GH5 has a better output for SOOC footage is nonsense I think, granted extended video mode and video mode aren’t any good (you can achieve something pleasing with extended video LUT applied on RAW when you have complete control on WB, with PRORES, I find it to be more complicated...)
Anyway, people (me included !) shouldn’t jump at conclusions when they’ve never shot with the camera.

One day you might realise that a forum is only as good as it's members. It's a two way street.
 
Can't see where I shouted expletives at YOU.
You have no respect for anyone here Andrew.
Goodbye all, it was fun while it lasted

THIS!
Why even spend energy on complaining over that it doesn't fit in your pocket, who wants to put a camera in your god damned literal pocket, I barely put my cell phone in my pocket!

No, I have the camera sitting right in front of me right now. Let me just show you how to grade it. In fact I'll have a book on it ready by 9am tomorrow!

Why the hell did he buy it in the first place?  Surely you would realise all this before spending $20,000 dollars on something.  Clearly more money than sense.
Really if he was honest he could sum up his video with "I thought I was a cinematographer but then I realised I was a videographer"
Its pretty ridiculous when you think about it.  Its like a taxi driver buying a Ferrari and then posting an earnest video explaining all of the reasons why it wasn't right for his taxiing as if people would be surprised.
Rich people problems.  
Though you wonder why someone who could afford a Ferrari so casually would continue to taxi-drive.
 

I think this thread needs a reality check, and luckily Caleb Wojcik just posted one.
Some of the points he made were:
He loves the image but the camera is a pain to use and so often stays at home in favour of his 2 x C100 mk2 It was expensive, and the battery life, proprietary accessories like touchscreen, storage, media readers, handle, chargers, and everything else cost about $25K US about two years ago In fact it was so expensive that he left it locked up because of fear of using it (despite having insurance) It's hugely heavy and impractical to use, he had to buy four batteries because two wasn't enough, and it basically requires a team to build and operate it In summary - two years ago one of the most affordable cinema cameras cost $20K plus, was such a PITA to use that he didn't take it places, and he used C100s instead.
Now in 2018, they release a 4K60 RAW cinema camera that costs less than 10% of the above RED, is smaller than the C100s but a significant margin, gets similar battery life, is easily hand-holdable, works with all kinds of third-party accessories, and comes with a free copy of an industry leading NLE.
Anyone who bitches about the battery life, size, cost or anything like that clearly don't have the faintest idea what a real cinema camera is like.
Get a grip - you're just embarrassing yourselves.

It lasts longer than the original BMPCC. Hey it is headed in the right direction.  ?

The adaptor for the mini XLR isn't really an issue as it locks in place at both ends so just like having one cable really.
When I first received my camera, I was horrified at the battery life and how unreliable the battery meter was. For a minute, I thought about selling the camera straight away. Once the included battery was charged and discharged a few times, the battery life started to improve and the accuracy of the meter did too. I bought four Wasabi batteries as I have used Wasabi in my GoPro's and X-T2 and had been happy with them but the LP-E6 versions only gave me 25mins of battery life. Even after a few discharges and charges, they didn't improve at all. 
I have now switched to Genuine Canon LP-E6's and now getting just over an hour of continuous run time with the screen at 65% brightness so the battery life is not really a concern for me any longer. Also, the meter accuracy is spot on and I get a good warning when the battery is low
 It was me who reported that the screen was hard to see in bright sun and that was to do with the reflectiveness of it rather than the lack of brightness. I have just fitted an anti glare protector to it. Unfortunately it's night time here, and I can't test it in full sun until tomorrow but even indoors it's obvious that the reflections have been cut substantially without quality loss so hopefully this results in my second major gripe (the battery was my first) with this camera being resolved.
The camera really is fun to use without any rigging at all, the only thing I do now miss is a tilting screen but I knew it didn't have one before I bought it. I might get a SmallHD Focus to remedy this.
 
Ultimately, we need to compare Apples to Apples so let's recap your issues below.  90% of the issues you describe here will be issues for many other mirrorless cameras anyway.
The screen Issues: I have used the A7 series a lot over the years and while it did have a tilting screen, I hated using it for video as it was just too small and also wasn't great in direct sun (most mirrorless screens suffer the same issues), so it too needed an external screen as do most Mirrorless camera for critical work.
Battery Issues: Again, the A7 series battery life sucked, as it does on my own X-T2 (I carry 4 batteries with my X-T2 when I go in holidays!) so apart from the GH series, you need to carry around batteries for any prolonged shooting anyway with most mirrorless cameras. As they are so small, I'm not seeing this as a major problem.
The USB-C/ Hard drive issue: You don't have to use the USB-C feature if you don't want to (and no other camera even gives you the option) so can't see that as being a negative. Once the camera gets BRAW, you will have RAW to SD Cards. To do that with any other mirrorless, you need an external recorder (more rigging, more batteries). 
The Audio XLR adaptor issue: Audio wise, having phantom power is great as is the XLR connection, minijack input and Timecode in. Adding those to a mirrorless camera requires external recorders so more bulk, rigging and batteries. I'll take the XLR- Mini XLR adaptor over a H4N or similar any day.
While it's easy to look at all the negatives of the Pocket4K, you need to compare apples to apples and any camera in the ballpark price range (and even thousands $$$$ more) is going to need external accessories to get the same job done as the pocket. 
The fact is, 90% of of the time, you can easily get away with shooting in a bare bones config on the pocket. I'd only really recommend using an external monitor for shorts where the camera is low to the ground or up above your head. 
BMD really have given you so many options and ways of using this camera.
 
 
 
 

I love the image coming off the C200, but it is a 7500$ camera.
 
The Pocket 4K is a 1000$ cinema camera, with Resolve, a beefy 19mm wide sensor, very nice codecs, TC, mini canon, full HDMI, and it's small and has nice color, latitude and sensitivity. For me, doing mainly fiction work, is a no brainer.

Please keep this out of this topic.
it’s really boring when you come here for the subject of this thread ?