webrunner5

I had that lens and did the hack myself. Yeah 13 to 14mm is about right on FF. Cheap thrills, the adapter is around $32.00 I think.

Yeah I have a Viltrox II EF/M4/3.

Thanks for the test Mike I will have to look into one.

Get one of those keyboard overlays and that will speed up your shortcuts.

The F3 was never meant to not be rigged out to the max.Heck they even made a Cine Lens kit just for it. A lot depends if you are using stuff for fun or if you are making a living from it. If the latter you wold have everything they make hanging off of the camera.

it is by no means a run n gun camera like a C100 can be.

Well, it really doesn't hurt that the lens is on a Blackmagic 6K. Both the 4K and 6K to me for the money seem to be the camera to have if you are looking for a Filmic look. They certainly have the Mojo for the task that is for sure.

The 6K one is actually not bad at taking photos. Interesting camera for sure. I would want the one with the NDs in it but that is a bit out of my price range. I guess if I sold a lot of my stuff I could do it, but probably not the best overall choice for me to be honest at my age. I need AF and stabilization to be honest. Not lugging around a big tripod or a gimbal anymore.

Never owned the Sigma 18-35 but aren't they sort of super sharp and really don't add or take away for the actual scene as seen, hmm not sure that is correct lol?

I would think for say a travel film, interview that would be desirable, but for a filmic, cine look I would think that would be death.

Pretty much since the Nikon D7100 we have had "ISO less" cameras. You can pretty much leave them at ISO 100 and just crank up the exposure, gain, whatever you call it and call it a day in post. Sensors have such crazy latitude today it amazing. 

So, I tend to agree that most of the stuff is baked in, even in Raw, BRaw particularly. The camera is doing the heavy lifting with it. Every camera brand has a certain "look" to it. So to imply Raw is Really Lossless is well, pushing it. 

And then people bitch about noise and then add it in post. It is all voodoo science at best. It is just like it has been for over a 100 years, getting it right in camera is the way to go, not trying to recover something that was never there to start with is a hard way to make a buck.

The difference between YCbCr and RGB is that YCbCr represents color as brightness and two color difference signals, while RGB represents color as red, green and blue. In YCbCr, the Y is the brightness (luma), Cb is blue minus luma (B-Y) and Cr is red minus luma (R-Y)

When I was in the ENG world RGB was hardly ever mentioned. 

Yeah, but computers pretty much sucked back when the F3 came out. Even ProRes was pretty rough on them.  But yes I will agree the F3 probably had a better output, but it was more of a studio camera compared to a Doc camera for the C100. Plus the C100 was cheaper to boot. Both sucked ass for their viewfinders. The F3 viewfinder always seemed broken, a problem yet with the FS5 today.

I you are happy I am happy. 🤐 But I agree with you, for the average person on here less is better in the long run. If you are not doing heavy grading why shoot 400mb/s. Hell, I was looking through some of my older stuff because one of my drives was getting full and Jesus, I had like 30 OG BMPCC Raw DNG projects on there. It was taking like a 1/4 of the damn drive up. And don't even ask about the Canon 1DC files. 😬

People that want the Sigma FP need their head examined if they want to shoot Raw out of it. Grab your ass on storage space.

I don't even need to turn the heat on in the room where my box computer is, it does all the heat I need!

Makes you want to sell all your stuff and buy a camcorder. Hmm. 😬

On 7/13/2022 at 10:39 PM, kye said:

I'm in the market for an MFT zoom lens and keen to hear various opinions (to help me work out what I want, or to point out things I haven't thought of).

Primary use will be a do-everything walk-around zoom with the GX85 but also potentially with the GH5 (or GH6 in future).

I currently have the 12-35mm f2.8 and found the concept to be great but the 12-35/2.8 specifically to not be long enough, and using the 2x digital zoom at the long end with it wide-open it was really soft, so I figure I either need a lens that's sharper or longer.

I figure my options include the below.

Panasonic LEICA 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH. POWER O.I.S.
Looks like a great option, and I've heard good things from people using it with GX85.  I like the fact it has stabilisation so I'll get dual IS, and the aperture only gets slower when you zoom, and for DoF that's fine because the longer focal length will compensate.  It's about $500, which is ok.

Panasonic LUMIX 12-60mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH. POWER O.I.S.
Good focal length, only loses a stop compared to the 12-60/2.8-4 and is a lot cheaper at under $200.

OM Digital Solutions : M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-100mm F4.0 IS PRO
Longer reach (which is welcomed) and only loses a stop of light at the wide end compared to the 12-60/2.8-4.  Has IS so I'm assuming can do dual IS with Panasonic cameras??  It's $1000 though, which is very expensive.  Is this sharper than the Panaleica 12-60 when wide open at the long end?  That would be worth something to be able to crop in and get even more reach.

OM Digital Solutions : M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-200mm F3.5-6.3
Crazy long reach, but still welcome as I could use it for sports.  No IS.  Slower, although 200mm (400mm FF) is pretty darn long so DoF would still be rather thin.  About $650 which is substantial for such a slow lens.

Panasonic : LUMIX G VARIO 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 II ASPH. POWER O.I.S.
Middle length zoom (for this list anyway) that's slow, but has IS so stabilisation should be excellent?  Sub $300 so ok price for an all-rounder.

In terms of DoF, the 12mm at 6ft distance at f2.8 gives a DoF of 9ft and f3.5 gives a DoF of 14ft, neither crazy bokeh but enough to give some background defocus for a subject.  
In terms of the longer reach:
- 60mm at 20ft at f4 has a DoF of 4ft, which is good for portraits and separation and shouldn't be too tricky to focus
- 60mm at 20ft at f5.6 has a DoF of 5.8ft, similar to the above
- 100mm at 30ft at f4 has a DoF of 3.3ft, similar to the above
- 200mm at 60ft at f6.3 has a DoF of 5ft, similar to the above
The slower lenses will be slow at the mid-points of their range, but the 12-200mm F3.5-6.3 is likely to be somewhere between f4 and f5.6 when at 60mm, which is similar to the 12-60mm zooms.

I don't really need the larger apertures for the low-light, and I don't really need the last-level of sharpness from the "Pro" lenses as I only edit on a 1080p timeline.  Part of me is tempted to just buy a sub$200 Panasonic 12-60mm F3.5-5.6 and see how I go, but if it's not quite what I want then I'm a third down on the price of the PanaLeica 12-60 f2.8-4.

Advice?

I did a little research and as far as I can tell the Olympus 12-100mm will Not play nice with the Dual OIS on the GH5. So, I would think that lens is out. I was also considering it to be honest. Not anymore, I think.

https://www.xdcam-user.com/2020/06/raw-myths-you-cant-change-the-white-balance-of-the-camera-or-iso-in-post/?amp=1

The comments are as interesting as the article.

1 hour ago, kye said:

@webrunner5 Nice shots!

Getting sharp images of far-away objects is likely to be heavily dependent on the weather - I've spent a lot of time using my FD 70-200mm to shoot the sunset, and when I put it on a 1.4x teleconverter and use the 2x crop mode all you see is heat shimmer.  If I use the same setup to focus on a close subject then the image is crisp, so it's not the optics, it's the distance.

The combination of 200mm with 1.4x and 2x crop gives an equivalent of 1120mm, which is all kinds of fun to get steady video with.  This setup was using the 4K mode so I could stabilise in post because even in this setup there was image shake and I had to stabilise in post - the image shake was coming from the ground through the limestone pillar!

 

Yes, you make very valid points. I always use a tripod with a hook on the bottom and I hang a 1 Gallon plastic jug of water on the hook to help stabilize the shot, and when you are done just empty the water for weight savings., camera bag works also,  and lock down every knob there is on the tripod and ball head or fluid head.

But that does not help haze or heat waves. A UV filter, or haze filter does help though. People that make a living shooting stuff like that have crazy expensive tripods, heads and so on. But yes, there are times weather wise you are better off staying home no doubt lol.

Might be but Canon sold one hell of a lot more C100's than Sony Sold F3's. I think the look out of them is pretty equal especially if you don't have the Recorder that cost half as much as the camera to get it out of both SDI's. Plus, the C100 was portable the F3 really wasn't.

And who even had the computer horsepower or storage to grade 4.4.4.

No, you can't get a super clean look out of a GH1 like you can with a Sony F3, but the video above was a lot grungier, film looking and I think you can get that look easier on the GH1 than the F3.

The F3 sort of competed against the Canon C100 output wise. 

I took this with the LEICA 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH. POWER O.I.S.  on the GH5 handheld unedited. I am not great at twisting my body anymore that much lol but... Not my best effort but kind of shows how good the combo is.

I would go with the M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-100mm F4.0 IS if you have the money. Great lens and constant aperture.  I have had the LEICA 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH. POWER O.I.S and the LUMIX G VARIO 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 II ASPH, POWER O.I.S.

I just keep falling back on a 14-140mm as an all-rounder. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have had 3 different models of the 14-140 and everyone was a great lens.  But the LEICA 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH. POWER O.I.S is a shaper lens and faster, and it too has a great range, and wider on the short end.

But the 12-100mm would sort of be the best of those 2 combined. But, and it is a big but not sure the image stabilization plays nice on a Panny body? Never owned one. I know from experience that the LEICA 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH. POWER O.I.S. on the GH5 is pretty amazing stabilization wise. Killer combo.

This shot was taken with my 12-32mm Panny lens today. I am telling you for the money you can buy one for they are a real sleeper. And they have OIS in them and are small and light as heck. Like having a 24-70 in your pocket. The Raw looked even better.

What sort of sucks is the iPhone straight out of the phone is probably the best looking shot lol. And it is a 7 year old phone! Sigh.  They are pretty amazing for what they can do. The 14-140 didn't do too bad though.😬

Well 4 shots from today on the GH5. Boat House 14-140mm, last 3 300mm f2.8 L FD lens. The one of the Lodge had to be a nearly 1/4 mile away. The Geese one was maybe 200 feet away, people fishing probably 300 feet away. This looks to be a damn good copy. I can see I need a better tripod for this lens. Had a nice carbon fiber one but it weighed a freaking ton, should have kept it I guess. Camera, lens shot with my iPhone 6s plus. 

Pretty satisfied on my fist real outing with it. Well, it looks like the photos are switch for bottom to top but you get the idea. Have to figure the 300 is actually a 600 on the GH5.

Looks really nice Emanuel. What camera did you guys use?

Rotating makes it useable Aperture wise or locks the Aperture. But there should be a dot or something where you have to rotate the ring to mount the lens on the adapter. You will have maybe more fun figuring out how to get the damn lens and adapter off. 😵

Well, it usually helps to be first and different. So, I guess he has obtained that much. It is interesting to see but not too sure of much use for it other than some laughs at a party. 

So, since you have one of these cameras Emanuel come on show us your stuff.