gt3rs

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

They already do.

As far as I could see you can have only one receiver, you can jam sync a camera, move to the next and so on but you cannot have 2 receivers at the same time. 

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Interesting take, but I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying. He's right, in saying that this system doesn't work with multiple cameras. However, TC can still be valuable for a single camera shoot, especially when recording 2 audio sources externally.

In my opinion, this is the same as complaining that the one tripod you bought doesn't hold all three of your cameras. Rode have noted that they system can sync other 3rd party TC generators and get them in sync, so you can have multiple cameras running the same TC, with some extra hardware. Which is the same as any other TC system.

He also mentions that the transmitters have to be connected to the reciever for TC to work, and you lose the function if the reciever shutsdown or loses connection. But Rode have said they'll stay running accurately for quite a while, and when they reconnect to the reciever, they automatically double check that everyone is running on the same TC.

 

 

I agree with you, classical youtube non sense, yes is not a professional time code system but for 400$ you get time coded 2 x 32 bit recording, really nothing to complain about.
Would be cool if in the future they would support additional receivers to sync time code across cameras instead of jam sync.

 

There was a thread a few months ago claiming that RF lenses were not a step forwards compared to their EF equivalents, happy now to see that I'm not the only one seeing the improvements and value. Having said this adapted EF lenses works so well that people can skip RF altogether either by using their collection or by buying quite discounted used EF lenses. 

1 hour ago, Django said:

Of course testing a camera for yourself is always the ideal thing but it ain't that easy when it comes to the R5C. It's just not the most available camera. Kind of a niche product like the 1DC, but I will certainly try to hunt one down when I get back to Paris..

Not a lot of comp tests either on YT but I did find this R5C vs Z9: Canon R5C vs Nikon Z9 Hands On Camera Comparison

The stab tests are interesting since they're using longer 100mm lenses. Clear advantage to Z9.

In other areas such as DR I was surprised to see the R5C had the edge, and the Z9 had it for AF.

Although not the most scientific tests that video has got me curious about the Z8/Z9 again so I will definitely spend more time on the Nikon before I commit to either R5/R5C!

 

You are right that is far from a scientific test, especially when they do not publish the AF settings that they are using. Btw the use case of people facing away is something that improved a lot with the latest firmware the video was made before the new fw. 

The stabilization test is a wired one either you mount both cameras on the same bracket or is not really scientific.... is even a different framing.....

As I said multiple times the Z9 seems a really good camera, so it make sense to learn and test both cameras before investing.

 

1 hour ago, Django said:

 

You mentioned earlier in the thread that not having custom modes was a PITA. I assume there is at least a "My Menu" type page or maybe even custom button where you can quickly access FPS/S&Q settings? Would love to know what is your fastest method to switch resolution and frame rates.

 

Yes, it has mymenu.

You can also assign a button to change the S&F framerate quicky, but it does not work for me as I normally go from 8k RAW to 4k 120 10bit and back.  

 

15 hours ago, Django said:

Lol I know I’ve been going back & forth a lot with purchase decisions but this will probably be a fall purchase (maybe even early as next month). R5 mk2 is expected in 2024 and R5Cii 2025 so those aren’t really a concern to me.

Besides R5 & R5C are already at an attractive retail & used price so I will not be waiting for replacement models to purchase. 

What really put me back in the Canon camp was trying out R5 with latest FW on a shoot. I also played around with a Z8 and got mixed feelings although I really like the specs and the files.
 

So in the end I’m still not at all sure what way to go, hence all my questions and research about R5 vs R5C. I really want the R5C for all the cine features, codecs, no record limit, 8K60p and the fan.. but I’m afraid I’ll miss IBIS and that the battery life may still be on the short side. R5 has IBIS and decent battery life plus I loved having C1 8K, C2 4K, C3 4K120 custom modes. But lack of exposure or magnification during recording, no shutter angle and the pain of editing 8K h265 files may push me towards R5C in the end..

Besides a good compromise might be R5C + R3 for handheld/run&gun/action shots. That’s my dream combo!

I think best for you is to rent a R5c for a day and try the hell out it.

For me when I do video 9 out of 10 times I pick the R5c as A cam and eventually the R5 as B cam. 

If you plan to use quite a bit 4k 100/120 the R5c is noticeable sharper than the R5, can also record audio (separately on the SD) but does not have Face AF in 100/120 fps. I try not to use the R5 in 100/120 as the quality is not too great and the editing is a pain due to h265 10bit 4:2:2, R5c XAVC so much faster.

One recent R5c 4k 120 fps segment. Don't look at the motion cadence as it was shoot at 1/2000, F2.8. It was a test for a lens and I did not have an ND filter for that lens diameter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AjNP0MdwXs


Fro anything slow motion R5c wins hands down with 8k and 4k 60p and better quality 4k 120...

@Django I feel that by the time you decide the R5 II and maybe even the R5c II will be available 😃

Maybe a used R5 when the new model will be announced is not a bad idea.

57 minutes ago, kye said:

Yeah, this isn't making any sense.  I think you're confused about how EIS actually works, although the RS considerations make sense and would be relevant.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread.  The EIS on the Canon wasn't very good and I was surprised.  I don't really care though, so carry on!

You are the one confused that has no idea why a gopro or insta360 or DJI Osmo have a much more effective image stabilization than Sony (including Catalyst) Nikon, Canon, etc. 
 

Is called physic and the longer the lens the bigger the shake will be amplified, it will have more motion blur, much bigger delta between same pixel and more rolling shutter effect due to sensor size, and the result is not comparable.
 

So please don’t call me confused when you have zero explanation why…. 

Btw I wrote software in the past for images alignment so I kind of know how eis algorithms works

8 hours ago, kye said:

That makes sense but has nothing to do with sensor size, it's lens FOV.  

Shutter speed also makes sense, but only so much that the edges can be detected easily, which would have been easy on that test clip of the guy as he was crisply in focus and contrasting sharply with the background.

It is the sensor size that dictates the lens length in mm for the same FOV. 

Let's assume you need the same framing so the same FOV of ~150°, Gopro needs a ~2.9mm lens, APSC ~9.5mm lens, FF ~15mm lens. FF 15mm will have more shake and blur than 2.9mm.
It is not the only reason but it also a key aspect why 360 cameras have even better stabilization than Gopros. Insta360 X3 has a FF 6.7mm equivalent where Gopro is FF 12mm equivalent.

Now if you take in consideration that Gopro is 12mm FF equivalent, rarely you will film with a FF at 12mm but more > 24mm this challenge is even bigger. 

Also the smaller the sensor size the less rolling shutter issue tends to have (assuming similar tech), as an example Gopro has a rs of 1/240 in video mode that is twice as fast as the fastest "consumer" FF camera A7s III at 1/120... 

I'm sure EIS could do better that the current status especially if you would allow much bigger crop, use really high shutter speed and have faster sensors but for the moment it cannot compete with Gopro size sensors.

https://docs.gyroflow.xyz/app/getting-started/common-filming-tips-and-issues

17 minutes ago, kye said:

I've seen people say things like this before, but it never made any sense.  Digital image stabilisation is a data processing operation done by a chip - you give it a stream of digital video and it does it's thing and gives you a modified stream of digital video.  It wouldn't matter if the source of the video was a GoPro or an array of telescopes the size of the entire planet - it's data crunching.

Is physics just try with your ASPC or FF camera disable IS whatever, move the camera with a 15mm and then with a 150mm you will see how much more movement, EIS would need much bigger crop, blur will be much more between frames and larger sensor (in general) will have more rolling shutter issue that also affect the software stabilizing.
Gopro lens is like 2.9mm not 15mm.... so the movement between frames is not that severe to start with and will have way less motion blur although to work well still need high shutter speed. 
 

Render it in 4k, youtube will compress less. Try it yourself, upload at 1080 and at 4k the same 1080 video and you will see. 

5 hours ago, kye said:

What surprises me is the poor performance of the DIS on that guys clips.  GoPros, for example, are DIS-only and are gimbal-like, so it is possible to get very high performance.  Perhaps Canon have implemented a very limited crop, or similar?

Gopro, uses a tiny sensor with extremely short lens and very high shutter speed. The movement magnification of a FF with a 35mm compared to a Gopro is just a complete other order of magnitude. 
Unfortunately any digital stabilization requires a high shutter speed to be more effective, put a ND on a Gopro and 1/50 and the great stabilization is gone.... 



In my experience, and I posted multiple times, any lens above 70mm that has IS for video performs better on the R5c than R5 (in my case 70-200, 100-500) and I do a lot of handled, of course I'm not walking or running, for this you need a gimbal.

Below 35mm on the R5 you will get wobble effect especially if you walk or pan rather fast. So a R5c with an IS lens wins here. 

IBIS is very useful from 35 to 70mm on non IS lens. I use quite a bit a 28-70 2.0 that does not have IS and I tend to use it handled on the R5 or on Gimbal on the R5c (there is really no contest against a gimbal if you walk.... gimbal wins by huge margin).

I did test but I never use Digital IS, I prefer to stabilize in post in Resolve if needed. I also shoot mostly in RAW so Digital IS is not available. Would be cool if Canon would embed the gyro data so we could do digital IS in post, but if you look at Sony catalyst or Gyroflow both requires high shutter speed to be effective.


Probably for @Django the question would be how well it compares R5+IBIS+RF 24-70 vs R5C + RF 27-70, handheld both static and walking. Unfortunately I don't have an RF 24-70.... but once I should try with the RF 35 1.8 IS to see...

 

With IBIS up to 30/35mm the wobble is an issue and you cannot fix in post, with no IBIS but with lens IS you can always add more stabilization in post.

Remember you cannot disable IBIS and keep lens IS on on canon body….

4 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah I meant proper exposure tools like on R5C. 

By the way to those that own both is R5C more rugged build quality than R5? Like FX3 vs A7S3?

Or is it really the same body, screen etc as R5 with just an added fan?

100% the same other than the fan and the TC port. Never had any issue so far with both R5 and R5c.

I much prefer the R5(c) size than R3 or 1Dx series that i used to own. Not sure I will go back to a 1 series size… but you never know.

On 7/3/2023 at 1:37 PM, Django said:

No multi custom settings is wild on a hybrid although not uncommon on most cine cams which the R5C video OS is based upon. 

Great that battery life was finally addressed and seems to be adequate.. for XFAVC at least!

At this point I wonder if a Z8 is not a better solution for 45MP / 8K60p RAW hybrid?

You loose some of the nice video assist tools and LUT support but gain a stacked sensor, ProRes options, custom settings and long battery life. 

Currently I would say yes Z8 is probably the best hybrid in the market but for sure but not gonna switch to Nikon and then switch to Sony and then back to Cannon 🙂 
Imo the more rational path is you invest in either Sony or Canon ecosystem and stick with it, some years you will have the "best" camera and some years not but you save a lot of money in not switching back and forth and you develop a lot of automatisms too.

Nikon has some really cool unique lenses and Z9 and Z8 at the moment are the best in class imo, but there is no cinema ecosystem and not yet good budget friendly hybrid cameras... so at the moment if you want to grow or downsize is more tricky than Sony or Canon. Canon has the advantage to share the mount with RED and a no brainer EF support, Sony is much more open to third parties lenses. 
 

16 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

The battery issue is a thing of the past imo. Now it's pretty much on par with any Canon DSLR - and this is what I'm getting with 2 oem LPE6NH batteries in the oem grip.

As I shot 90% RAW (25,50) and 10% xfavc 4k 120 ….it is still THE issue for me, no 8k 50 with grip and forced to use the usb port. A dummy dtap battery with the right voltage or a new grip would solve the isse but nobody offere these…. I don’t mind using a small vmount battery but the usb port is a real pita….

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Holy Cripple Hammer.

I was reading just the other day what a superb hybrid this is.

Lumix has 5 custom slots and you can set them to always revert to your custom, or keep whatever last tweak you might have made to any one of the 5 custom settings.

Is not a cripple hammer is a big oversight as afaik no C camera has this not even the C500…

53 minutes ago, lucian123 said:

noob question: can i quickly save and load video settings (like c1 c2 c3 for video) is there such a thing ?

for example if i want to shoot super 35, 4k uhd, slow 120 fps, 90 shutter angle, mp4 422 10 bit, clog 3 with noise reduction and then i want to switch to full frame, 8k, raw lt, 60 fps, 180 shutter angle, whthout having to change all of those settings one by one is there such a option to do it faster like in photo mode c1 c2 c3 ?

A big nope and this together with the battery is the biggest complain that I have with this great camera. You can also only save ONE settings file to the SD so you cannot use that neither... why o why not being able to give at least a name... 

I switch a lot from 8K 50 RAW to 4k S&F 120 XFAVC and is a pain.... on the R5 I have two C mode one for 8K 25 and one for 4k 120 much more practical

11 hours ago, lucian123 said:

what happened to the firmware update..1.0.4.0 or 1.0.4.1 ...the latest on the canon website is 1.0.3.1....did it have a bug or something?

Is pulled as there is a bug in photo mode, if you use custom modes c1 c2 etc camera think to be in pixel shift mode and creates huge jpgs. I expect that is a quick fix.

Why not simply crop in post? 

I normally do it this way when people requests vertical video.

10 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

 

Another (unrelated) interesting thing to note is that photos tend to be more contrasty than video. Historically, this is probably due to its intended output mediums: print versus TV screen. Even nowadays the default ACR/Lightroom curve is way contrastier than what most video people grade to. Worth bearing in mind for sending photos extracted from videos to a client. And for making prints.

Indeed, I rarely use the same grade for video and photo, for the best photos I normally export 16bit tiffs from Resolve and edit in ACR.

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The only difference raw would make is the ability to grade the image. The rest is the same.

But this was why I was interested in the Nikon Z9 with it’s ability to shoot stills and shoot less storage heavy video, but when I needed both photo and video at the same time, shoot 8k raw for both.

6k 50/60p would do it for me however. I think… I need to rest later this year when I have the time.

4k imo is a bit the bar minimum as it gives you almost zero cropping space.
I agree that 6k is probably the sweet spot with 8k giving you more possible tight composition and vertical reframe.

RAW gives you a bit more flexibility mostly due to white balance but is not imo a key requirement as 10bit log you can definitely process more that .jpg. So 10bit is somewhere in between RAW and jpg...

When I shoot 8k I always do it in RAW LT as is much faster to edit and scrub in Resolve that h265 4:2:2 10bit....
At events I take my gaming notebook and edit directly from the CFexpress... for the photo I show the frames to the athlete and I ask which he/she wants and then I edit.

 

As several people have mentioned here any gopro with wifi enabled, usb powered and using your phone ... you can even record if you see something interesting. 

Or any cheap wifi surveillance camera that does not require a plan/cloud.... 20-30$ but the quality is quite bad...

I tested quite extensively over the weekend, let’s start with the good:

“Enables to detect heads facing sideways or backwards, or in situations such as when wearing a helmet”
This one is not perfect but really good and for the type of filming that I do it makes a difference, first it does not lose the head when moving away but more important it works with helmets. These in the past I would have to stop down to 5.6 to keep the face in focus, now with the face tracking with helmet I can shoot at 2.8.

Screen grab, this one was almost impossible before as the focus would have been on the horse head instead of her.




this one before it would have simply lose the focus 


“Improves switching time between Video/Photo mode”
This one is much faster now, was not a big issue for me but now it should not be an issue for most people.

“Enables to change WFM size” and “Enables to change WFM/Vector scope opacity”.
This is very practical, especially on the tiny screen. Just tap the WFM and it becomes bigger, tap it again goes smaller.

Now the not so good:

Face/Helmet does not work on S&F mode so no 100/120 fps face tracking…. R5 can…

“Adds Power Saving Mode” this comes with some limitations so only 4k XAVC, but works 24 to 60fps…. and indeed it extends quite a bit the battery.
So seems all good but the implementation is a bit cumbersome as you can turn it on only when all settings matches and if you want to let say go to S&F mode 120 you cannot you need first to disable it…. T
his camera needs absolutely customs shooting modes it would make all of this so easier to go from 8K RAW 24, to XAVC save mode 24 to then XAV S&F 120 and so on…. You need to change many menu items that is insane….

For example, for this scene I wanted to quickly change to 120fps for a few seconds and then back to 24 and with power saving you cannot do it quickly....

Overall not much to complain Canon added quite a few of very useful features.
I hope they will further improve the camera. My wishes for the next one are customs shooting modes and face tracking in S&F 120, even better if you could select the area of the frame where face tracking is active similar to the R3.