gt3rs

If this data is true, it seems helping quite a bit especially if you can power it >= 8v.

I never hit a stop so fare but I got close a couple of times so it maybe a good backup solution for some situation that you know it may become tricky.  

I would be interested in the findings for 8k RAW and 4k 120 under the sun at 90F. Thx!

10 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

 

Really surprised Canon is releasing major firmware updates with major features. I hope they continue this.

Next one for the R5 is around the corner:  https://www.canon.com.au/about-canon/news-and-press-releases/canon-releases-new-firmware-for-its-professional-cameras

4 hours ago, chadandreo said:

Now that these cameras have been out for a while now and have had firmware updates, what do you guys think of this comparison?

I have a R5 since October 2020. I had a 1Dx III from march 2020 until two weeks ago, sold it to buy an additional R5.

Never used an R6 so I cannot comment on that.

I basically have 2 custom settings that I use for video: 8k RAW Light 24-30 fps and 4k 120 fps Clog (rarely use Clog3). Rarely I use 4k HQ IPB with no log if I need to give the video for some quick and dirty usage without any further processing.

R5 is imo a much better camera than the 1Dx III:

8k RAW is better that 5.5k RAW not for the resolution (although it give some more room for post zoom and pan) but mostly for the much better rolling shutter 15 ms vs 29 ms

4k 120fps is way way better than the junk 1080 120 of the 1Dx III.

Crop quality is a tad better

Lightweight, better on Gimbals

Smaller to pack, basically I can take 2 R5 in the space and weight of a 1Dx III, if you add the insane big charger of the 1Dx III you can take a gazillion number of R5 batteries…..

Flippy screen much better on Gimbals and in low angles

45 mpix much better than 20 mpix for photo

Has zebra

IBIS, IBIS + IS lens allow me to film quite a bit without a tripod, very handy for filming while backpacking for ski, mtb, etc…..

EF-RF Adapter with VND

1Dx III is better in:

No overheating

Initial AF acquisition with long lenses but only for photos in non liveview mode.

Has 5.5 RAW at 60fps but no AF

Longer battery life

Same dual card type

More rugged and better weather sealing

The biggest gain for me with the last firmware is the RAW Light that basically give me almost 2x storage. I’m a fan of RAW as it give me more flexibility in post than Clog and Clog3…. is probably me not doing it right but for me is a night and day difference RAW vs. Clog how much more post processing I can do and fix mistakes. Bonus that on my PC the RAW Light file are much easier to edit than 10bit Clog ones.

At the end the only question is if you need long takes and in case that things go south can you live with 4k SQ if the camera would overheat?

In my case it has never overheated in 8K RAW Light in my usage (but it will eventually happen). I got at the limit a couple of times at 30-35° C under the sun shooting at 4k 120 fps, this is the mode that seems to overheats the most.

I'm curios to see if it can do FF DCI > 6k RAW Light 60fps with AF, I expect this but with Canon you never know. Best would be open gate... but I doubt.

My biggest complain to Canon is 120fps is conformed to 30 fps with no audio...  why not offering both conformed and 120fps (with audio)? 

15 minutes ago, Fox said:

I believe ProRes Raw produces smaller file sizes, editing standard codec, and the recorder gives me longer recording times on cheaper SSD storage with no overheating

Internally both A1 and R5 will eventually overheat with the A1 having longer recording times than the R5.

Externally I have no idea about the A1 and never used my R5 with an external recording but as it is currently not yet possible to record externally 8k RAW from the R5 I would still be cautious in assuming that it will not overheat.

As ProRes Raw being a standard codec is debatable as basically no camera supports it natively and Resolve does not support it at all.  Files being smaller it could be but are any effective datarate for 8k of the ninja being published yet?

It is fair to assume that with the Ninja V+ you will get more recording times but I would wait until is available and tests are done, there will be some quirks as always.

1 minute ago, herein2020 said:

The question though is if you can record to the internal card and output a clean HDMI signal to an external recorder at the same time. The R6 does not let you do this.

Sorry I have no idea as I hate external recorders.

48 minutes ago, Fox said:

I understand Sony A1 has an even better handling of rolling shutter with its stacked sensor.

Sony IBIS seems not as good as Canon’s indeed, but doesn’t occasionally introduce wobble to the footage as Canon R5 does either. To me that wobble issue is really a concern, and I think I’d prefer having a less capable IBIS better than nothing than a more powerful IBIS that would overdo its job. 

Sure the price of Ninja + SSDs equals to CFexpress, but CFexpress don’t record ProRes (raw) 

I’m shooting a wide variety of things, from commercials to run and gun short documentaries sometimes, as well as still photography ( that’s why I need a mirorless rather than a dedicated camera).

Again, that lack of 8K raw support is holding me off the A1. I do intend to shoot some 8K and would rather have the gear future proof

 

 

Sony A1 in 8K video has exactly the same rolling shutter as the R5 15.5ms..... don't trust marketing bla bla.

Why you want to use ProRes Raw instead of Canon Raw Light? Did you test both 8k RAW in your machine?

25 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

 

But yes, if you are as paranoid as I am about having a copy of the footage, and if the R5 allowed this, then that would be a way to get video storage redundancy. Maybe an R5 owner can chime in and say if you are even allowed to do this with the R5.

With the R5 only in 8K RAW you can have 4K 10bit or 8bit copy on the SD card, other modes are single card only.

29 minutes ago, Fox said:

thank you very much for your answer Andrew.

Well I’m in the market for a new rig and I always shoot with a monitor/recorder as to have a bigger screen to monitor my footage. I also believe ProRes (raw) offers a lot more edit friendly experience, smaller file sizes and  cheaper storage on SSDs rather than expensive CFexpress media. I don’t want to go with a real proper « cinema » camera because I want to be able to shoot stills and I like IBIS and Autofocus. I sure would love in body e-NDs but don’t mind using external ND’s given there is no choice with mirrorless. I’m now struggling with choosing my « poison » exactly as you say between Canon R5 and Sony A1, as I want to renew all my gear including wide array of lenses. I’m in for around 15,000€ and the lenses combination in RF or E Mount makes it that the camera body price difference between them eventually doesn’t show any difference in total amount. 

i tended to lean towards Sony A1 but the lack of 8K raw and 4K120 video support with the Ninja V+ is quite frustrating

On the other side I’m just totally afraid about the general unreliability that you point out regarding Canon’s R5 and especially worst rolling shutter and the IBIS wobble issue as I often like to shoot 16mm in video. 
 

i would love to have your opinion in this regards 

R5 rolling shutter is good, 8K 25 fps is 15ms about the same as the C500 II so a non issue imo, non HQ mode is 9 ms, R6 and 1Dx III are quite bad. Sony IBIS for video is worst than Canon.

With the price of a Ninja V+ + SSD you can buy 2 x 2 TB CFexpress so not sure you are saving money

But what are you shooting and for how long? And in case of overheating is 4K SQ not good enough?

It is so crazy people rave about 4k 120 R5 quality (which is indeed good second only to the A7S III) and say 4k SQ is bad but it is exactly the same.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah clearly something going on there.

Wonder if 1D X III will get C-RAW Lite and C-LOG3 as well.

1DX III has already RAW Lite it was released in fw 1.4 at the same time as the R5 RAW Lite firmware. I have and use it on my 1DX III.

No CLog3 yet.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

How are they getting around the RED patents I wonder?

Pure guess is that they have an agreement probably the RF mount in Komodo is part of that agreement too maybe the sensor as is speculated to be Canon one in Komodo (not sure just reporting rumors).

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

What is the bitrate and file size in 8K C-RAW Lite?

8k RAW (Light) (29.97p/25.00p): Approx. 1700 Mbps

8k RAW (Light) (24.00p/23.98p): Approx. 1350 Mbps

For 8K a very good compression.

5 hours ago, danieleciraolo said:

Bought and tested with my r5 with latest firmware ... heats the same. I don't understand the user above how he made unlimited raw recordings! This is wrong information. I send it back immediately ... I already have 2 cf express 512 the chamber heats up as with the cf express. If you buy it to avoid overheating forget it, it heats the same.

It is such a false info…. media is a contributor to the heat and having the door open will have some minimal cooling effect but is not the main issue and solution seems really fragile.

Looks like something ready to break, big chance to lose data....not even sure how stable is when the battery runs low and so on. 

Imo is the wrong saving (if any)  but if it works for you.
 

36 minutes ago, HansD said:

I have not found the Delikin brand. You probably mean Delkin?
Never heard of it, can't buy it here either.
The build quality of the Zitay converter is excellent and I would be surprised if this flat cable breaks or comes loose.
But yes, not everyone is careful with their camera gear.
Any CFexpress you use with 8K RAW in the Canon EOS R5 will lead to overheating (with firmware 1.3.1 22 minutes!)
And what will the long-term consequences of this be?

I have this Delkin Devices 2TB CFexpress POWER Memory Card DCFX1-2TB B&H (bhphotovideo.com)

I may be wrong but I believe the door open has more to do with not overheating that the external storage. The thermal control is there to prevent damage is like a rev limiter in a car it will not have any consequences. In my 8 months R5 only shooting 8k raw and 4k 120 (the only two modes that I use) it never overheated once. I do many short takes up to 5min.... 

Not sure it is really worth, risking stuff entering the camera, breaking the door, breaking the cable etc.. 

A delikin 2 TB CFexpress that sometime is on sale for 800$ is a better investment.

Try Resolve, I shoot 90% in RAW, and now RAW Light and on my Gaming Notebook is very fast to edit on 4k DCI timeline. I'm not a big fan of CLog3 as it introduce a bit too much noise on the shadows..... but I'm in the minority. 

I'm on PC and I think the M1 was just a big hype due to HW decoding of h265 10bit 4:2:2 but for the rest is a bit of a slow dog not really up for video editing especially with the 8 GB model. Resolve needs 8 GB Vram just for 4k how can it works well on a 8 GB shared ram.... 

He is expected companies to send  him free gears just to ear his "valuable" feedback yea right....... the most silly part is that they refer themselves as content creators..... they are not content creators they are sales guys replacing the guys in the shop or in TV sales. This is it. The argument that the value of the good is only a couple of 100$ is also ridiculous.

 

2 hours ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

I found 8K RAW to not be as difficult to edit as I had feared. On my Intel 8700K/RTX2070 it wasn't exactly smooth in Davinci Resolve, but absolutely doable to edit.

I agree 8k RAW and RAW Light are directly editable in Davinci on a good PC mine is a 2500 usd 1 year old gaming notebook i9-10980HK, 2070 super Max-Q. 8k timeline with complex stuff is an issue with only 8GB VRam in Davicine no matter what codec but 4k timeline is not a problem 

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

20 plus stops of DR claims makes me laugh, reminds me of RED marketing - but are these going to be RF or EF mount? CAnon has definitely been busy of late though not sure how present C300 III and C500 II owners will feel so soon after their pretty major investment, there has been grumbling of lack of firmware updates compared with FX9, hope Canon doesn't leave these folk out in the cold...

FX9 FW was just delivering promised features that were not ready at launch... so not really a fair comparison imo. 

Product should be ready at launch not launch something with a lot of *coming later....

Maybe it will be an amazing tool but looking at the image the only real value is to be able to reuse the gimbal of a drone like the inspire and that it seems to have a spring for the vertical movement dampening.  
The way that the gimbal is built it limits the lens selection massively as it seems to not have a big travel adjustments. I see no way to have a medium to long lens (>=200mm) on it. It seems way less flexible that a normal one hand gimbal, you cannot really extend it with a monopod for example or easily run it underslung. The fact that the camera is not centered on the mounting screw make it wired on a tripod too.   

FW 1.3.1 is out at fixes the view assist in clog3.

9 hours ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

Technically, I guess it is possible to apply a curve even though they are not debayered. A log-curve is just changing the representation of the values (usually compressing the range from what has been read out from ADC to reduce the bit-depth requirement), which can be performed on non-RGB values. However, as long as RAW uses 12-bits, I don't think there is any reason to apply a log-curve.

That's the video that confused me in the first place. The only explanation I can think of for how RAW CLOG works would be for the CLOG to simply add metadata to the RAW file (which is still recorded in linear 12 bit), and that the different base ISO's is just to make the user protect the highlights by adjusting exposure (which is basically what gt3rs said in a post a bit earlier). I guess that doesn't match with the findings in the video, but as far as I could see they adjusted the exposure settings between the clog1 and clog3 recordings, which would make the results different. To check if they are truly just metadata you would have to record with the same settings but different base ISO, and seemingly overexposing clog3.

 

Ok now I get it, it is just metadata and exposure trickery. 

I did a test aperture and shutter speed fixed, exposed to almost clip highlight in RAW Clog3 iso800, then re-shoot the same scene in RAW with nolog iso100 and changed the iso to 800 in Resolve Camera Raw and you get basically the same image and parade. So what the camera is doing is capturing at iso 100 and fake the metadata to iso 800 so when Resolve process the raw the image is correctly exposed by bosting the exposure by 3 stop. Zebra, Meter and Histogram are tricked to think that the camera is at iso 800 so you end up  underexposing the image by 3 stop.

Also shooting RAW Clog3 CinemaGamut or RAW Clog3 Rec709 in my quick test the image looks the same. In fact nowhere in the doc is mentioned that the Log color space as an effect on RAW.

15 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Lots of questions answered in this video about R5 RAW and CLOG3.

 

Partially as they also don't have explanation how it works. What we know that RAW, RAW with Clog (more headroom for HL but more shadow noise) and RAW with Clog3 (even more headroom for HL but even more shadow noise) are different but stilly RAW as you can apply WB,  any log curve, etc.. They process RAW with Clog3 on by applying a Clog2 curve in Resolve.

Now I'm even more confused.... would be nice if Canon would publish a white paper that explain what they are doing....