Django

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It seems Fuji are relying on Sony's hardware, with their own spin on ergonomics and colour. This is a good thing... Even if the H1 will be basically the innards of an A6500 in a Fuji body, it will be nicer to use than the Sony.

1

Sony may be building Fuji sensors (as they do for Panasonic/Nikon).. but claiming the H1 will be a A6500 in a Fuji body is a bit of reach!

For one the X-trans sensor design is quite different from standard Sony Bayer. It reduces moiré & gives a more organic/film noise at high iso.

AF systems are different. Rolling shutter is also nowhere near as bad as A6300/6500.

As stated above Fuji definitely have beta testers for their hardware "outside of the lab" but they usually go to.. Fuji users/advocates (like does every other brand!).

I'd say you'd probably have better luck with beta testing Panasonic bodies, if not already the case (GH5S?)

57 minutes ago, Justin Bacle said:

I'll have to disagree, I have an X-T1 that I mainly use for stills and the occasional video. It is just the best camera in terms of ergonomics I have ever come across. Everything is accessible, and I never have to open the menu. Just love it. I used an A7S2 and GH4 recently, and I felt like every setting needed to go into a submenu of another not-so-obvious menu.
I guess it's just a matter of taste, but I really love the Fuji handling and general use  

Agreed. And it gets even better with the XT2. On the stills side, I'd say ergonomics easily beat mirrorless competition & even DSLRs. Having dedicated dials for ISO & shutter speed is just great while your eye is on the EVF, add aperture lens control, AF joystick and it's close to perfect. Photography feels so complete and like it should be and not like playing mortal kombat with button combos, nameless wheels, menu diving etc..

On the video side, it's a little bit more work in progress, no touch screen but with the latest firmware the AF is getting really solid. Generally the IQ is quite excellent, color science, best AWB.. a clean sharp 4K image. the film simulations, highlight/shadow settings.. you can get some really great imagery SOOC unlike Sony's.

So now a XH1 with IBIS & internal FLOG seems nice but I would need a bit more than that to upgrade.

 I also don't understand why the XT2 can't get internal FLOG via firmware??

Anyways here is my top list of things i'd like to see addressed aside internal FLOG & IBIS:

#1 A no crop APS-C/Super35 4K mode. There is currently a 1.7x crop in XT2 4K.

#2 high frame rate (give us at least 120fps 1080p)

#3 face/eye detection AF in 4K (currently only works in 1080p)

#4 independent stills/video settings (i want my shutter speed to default at 1/50 in video mode)

Majority of 15-25yo spend way more time viewing content on their smartphones & iPads then TVs computers & cinema.

Vertical viewing does seem to be the "future" for that segment whether we like it or not.

Here in France, a local group of young popular youtubers have even started shooting vertically with their GH5's, A6500's.

They have their NLE monitors set up vertically for editing! It's so popular that they've created an app for exclusive vertical content (shows, music videos, critiques etc).. 

I thought it was kinda silly at first but now i think it's kind of brilliant.. an investment firm just dropped a few million euros on them too!

On 12/1/2017 at 10:04 AM, Attila Bakos said:

You can enable the highlight warning separately in the display custom settings, then it works in video mode too. But unfortunately you are correct about the RGB histogram, there is no way to show that in video mode.

I few weeks ago made a video about F-Log, you might find it helpful

As you can see you can live without F-Log, and it's not without problems. I guess you would run into even more problems if it was recorded in-camera with 100Mbps H.264.

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I find the XT2 codec quite robust.. compared to let's say XAVC-S. Not to mention I used to shoot Canon Log no problem on the tiny 28Mbps AVCHD codec of the C100..

I'll admit I did run into some rather strange color issues when recording F-Log couple weeks ago on a Shogun but it could have been user error or white balance related.

Like most 8-bit log profiles F-Log can be tricky I agree but as you point out in your video the extra DR can be useful but also important for color grading outside rec709 space.

I just think it's really annoying only having F-LOG available externally, it's an odd limitation imo and was hoping Fuji would give us that by now.. 

Kudos though for finding how to activate the highlight warning in video mode!

33 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

Was that in video mode? And does the focus still pulsate even when the object is still?

Yes video mode of course... I've only done a few short tests but so far no hunting on static or moving subjects. Very steady, precise tracking. Like i said night & day with before.

Maybe not quite dual pixel good but definitely on par with the best PDAF i've seen from latest Sony etc.. will do further testings this weekend..

Just updated the firmware and did a quick AF-C test and it seems night & day as far as speed & precision! 

Tested on the 23mm/1.4 at F1.4 with moving subject and tracking was flawless (and that's not a very fast focusing lens).

Will do further testing during the weekend but I'm pretty impressed already at what Fuji pulled off here...

The RGB Histogram & Highlight warning is only available on stills shooting though.. and still no internal F-Log :((

Having owned all 3 cameras (A7S, 5D3, D750) and used them on a multitude of paid events here is my opinion from a stills perspective:

- 5D3: workhorse all-rounder. best sealing and build quality of the 3. best ergonomics (thumb wheel, joystick, ISO button). superior AF point spreading. better AWB. best skin tones. Magic Lantern which adds peaking and a bunch of stuff also useful for photography.

- D750: also a workhorse but body & ergonomics are prosumer level. incredible DR (mainly useful for landscape photography) lightweight & tilt-screen

- A7S: a speciality camera mainly geared towards extreme low light performance & video. consumer body. terrible ergonomics & battery life. not a very good choice for general pro photography imo.

I'd give the clear advantage to 5D3 (especially if you're already in the Canon ecosystem) and even as a hybrid it's still very relevant thanks to ML Raw video. But of course D750 will also run circles around a A7S.

Personally, I sold my 5D3 expecting to upgrade to 5D4.. but I've totally fallen in love with the XT2 using Fuji & vintage Nikon prime lenses. The size, weight, EVF, dials & lens aperture control have been a complete game changer for me and I have a hard time imagining going back to bulky DSLR's with no EVFs.

The only aspect where (FUJI) mirrorless doesn't fully hold up is flash department which is unreliable as well as the occasional hiccup that could cause missed shots (I've had the AF go haywire a few times). For that alone i still go to Canon and rent a 5D for events where failure isn't an option.

Same EU price as A7R2 when launched. We always pay more in EU for gear then US. nothing new..

I think the A7R3 looks pretty damn sweet.. it takes the best features of A9, fixes all of A7R2's shortcomings and even adds stuff on top (HDR, 5.5 stop IS, pixel shift, usb-c).

Very promising for A7S3 which will probably be out next..

Forget GH5 pricing. GH4 came out a $1699 yet A7SII was $3000. Full Frame is always going to cost more than M43.

I have my doubts on it being A9S, more likely A7SIII. 

A lot of A9 features don't make sense on a video centric follow up.

Better battery life, dual card slots & touch screen however would be most welcome.

I highly doubt 10-bit 422 4K internal, that would place it above FS5! at best 10-bit 422 1080p and I even doubt that.

Probably just ergonomic enhancements and PDAF with new BSI sensor. Maybe a bump in HFR or no crop 120fps.

12 hours ago, salim said:

There is a comparison near the end of this video: 

 

Gotta say D850 SOOC IQ looks best here. That horrible yellow cast on the Sony, GH5 is reddish. Assuming he had WB on auto of course.

out of curiosity how is the 1080p? similar to d750 or clearer/sharper?

64 iso video I think is also worth a mention.. rather unique no?

16 hours ago, BenEricson said:

R3D seems to be doing pretty well. 

RED cameras allow you to shoot all kinds of ProRes flavours (4444, 422) & resolutions in addition to R3D raw formats.. and even so we are talking high-end cine cams which is pretty niche to start with..

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Yes focus peaking in the D850 is limited to only in 1080 (which is DUMB!! You want it for 4K too), but the sheer existence of this feature means a major shift is going to happen within the Canikon duolopy. Just like what happened when the Nikon D90 arrived on the scene as the first HDSLR.

You will see all future Nikons having focus peaking, and you'll see the focus peaking improve (such as for 4K), and I bet within the next year or two we will see Canon add focus peaking to one of their DSLRs. Just like what happened with the D90, then Canon had to respond to Nikon. If the D850 didn't have focus peaking, I bet we'd need to wait an extra couple of years (or more!) before Canon would finally in its own sweet time add focus peaking to its DSLRs.

Focus peaking has been available for years on Canons via Magic Lantern. Zebras too. Canon purposely omit them from their DSLRs to upsell their EOS C line. D850 isn't going to change that fact.

2 hours ago, Eno said:

C-LOG is close to useless in a 8 bit only IMO, + it exhibits banding in the shadows (even Canon themselves caution this). MJPG is an dinosaur of a codec, it's superiority ended in 90's. + if you dare to think about the "luxury" of recording 4K externally from the 5D mk4, you don't have it...nada, niente, no...you're stuck with the very old, extremely inefficient Motion JPOG encoding...That's it, end of story!

I never said anything about sharpness, I was referring to detail or the lack of it. The so called Canon 4K is more like a 2,5K resolution wise, the FHD is as pour as in 2008 (this year Canon celebrates 10 years of unchanged "1080" quality).

Did I missed anything?

Have you ever shot with the 5D4? because it sounds like baseless erroneous assumptions you are making here.. fyi FHD has improved since the 5D3. 

As for C-Log it is far from useless.. for matching footage from other C-log cams, getting creative with grades or extending DR.. it doesn't seem to break much on the "dinosaur codec"

DPAF isn't the only advantage (it's a big one though!). The 5DIV now has C-Log with view assist. It can shoot full read-out DCI 4K. MJPEG is a high bitrate 422 codec (for some that's a plus). Wi-fi remote capability is superior to Nikons. 

3 hours ago, Eno said:

The crop factor is actually 1,75x in UHD (16:9 aspect ratio) - just horrible (an nod, the APS-C lenses do not work on the EF mount, you're stuck with FF glass on a huge crop)! The codec is very inefficient, the "4K" image (more like 2,5K actually) is very soft, high ISO is worst than on the Gh5 (in video mode), FHD is like any other Canon DSLR a pour 720p resolution full of moire and aliasing (the only exception was the 5D mk3 which was even softer). It has 0 advanced video controls but hey, Canon "must be praised" for it's dual pixel AF, to do exactly what with it if the image quality is so pour?!

The 5D mk4 deserves all the hatred, it is an expensive embarrassment video wise!

Another false statement. Canon EF-S lens aren't compatible, but third party APS-C EF mount lenses absolutely are. The Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 is a perfect pair for the 5D4 and gives a very workable range for video work.

As for the 4K image quality, I disagree. Sharpness isn't everything (and I wouldn't call the 5D4 4K very soft). As far as color sampling (422), motion, lack of artefacts etc.. the 5D4/1DC/1DX2 DCI 4K is superior to most internal 4K from the competition imo..

Camera is also now off my list. It all the sudden becomes a ultra niche camera for RAW only shooters.. that need 420 proxies ..?!

5 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Stills camera = 100 times less good than D850 (less dynamic range, less mpx, less good AF system ( and -4ev on the D850), no BSI sensor, less features like the new focus stacking,...)

Video camera = horribly not efficient codec, super high video file size for 1.7 crop (not S35 actually) and basically no video specs at all VS let's say a GH5. 

All that for a premium price tag. 

 

Anyone in this word who does not own any lens, I see 0 reason to buy a Canon 5D when looking to get FF. If you are going to shoot stills you buy the D850, if video only probably something like GH5 or A7SII and if you shoot both you will probably go to Sony. 

Sorry but this sounds like a very biased anti-Canon stance which indeed seems to be a growing trend around here.

The 5D4 is certainly not "100 times less good than D850". You cannot omit the advantage of Dual Pixel AF both for video and stills (when shooting LV).

A camera system is also more than paper specs, you've got a bunch of subjective factors to consider as well such as ergonomics, lens choice, menus, weight, color science etc..

Build quality & reliability has also been an issue with Nikon as of late with numerous recalls on their bodies. Mainly due to so much part outsourcing whereas Canon is all in-house and Made in Japan. This is a major point for professionals. (My D750 being recalled and leaving me without a camera for 3 weeks and losing work because of it was the final straw with me switching from Nikon to Canon.)

Besides not everyone needs/wants a 46MP camera and the huge files associated with that. 

As for the GH5 & A7S2 they also have their flaws, mainly terrible AF and for stills are way inferior to the 5D4.

5 hours ago, mercer said:

What exactly does a horribly "non efficient codec" entail? I mean video gets recorded, right? And it's a 4:22 codec that's easily editable on most computers, and usually the motion cadence looks great.

Okay so a 1.7 crop isn't exactly S35 but it's closer than 2x or 2.4x or 2.88x. And with the crop, a bunch of aps-c lens options open up.

I don't care about the this camera is better than that camera game. Each camera is unique to itself and none of them are perfect, but I do think the 5D4 gets a little more hatred than deserved.

By non efficient people mean the 500mbps file size which is huge for most. Also it isn't "easy editable on most computers" my €3000 2017 Macbook struggles with the files.

The upside though which indeed many seem to conveniently forget is that the codec is 422 and that the footage contains tons of information and simply looks great: thick & juicy image quality with tons of gradibility and filmic motion cadence. Like stated above it does feel like the closest to RAW. 

I also feel the 5D4 gets a ton of hate when things like MJPEG never seemed to be an issue for these same people on the 1DC & 1DXII..

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Um, it's not about perfection... It's about paying for a full frame camera and expecting a FULL FRAME image!

And the codec is inexcusable.

Depends what type of shooter you are. Personally I like shooting FF for stills, but prefer S35 for video. 

So this type of hybrid config works.. for me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there always seems to be some kind of compromise when shooting both stills & video on a body.

I'm with you on the MJPEG codec, number one thing holding me back on the 5D4. 

Really hope Sony will hurry up with the A7R/S III now that Canikon/Panasonic/Fuji have laid out their refreshes.

Personally I'd still favour a 5D IV over the D850 because of: full readout 4K, Dual Pixel AF, Canon Log, 422 codec, skin tones, EF mount. 

Yeah MJPEG is inefficient & there is a 1.7x crop. No camera is perfect I guess.

In the end D850 won't be a game changer. Nikon users will upgrade to it.. and Canon/Sony/Panasonic users will stick to their guns..

3 hours ago, gethin said:

Our initial impression is that the video is pixel-binned, rather than being resolved then downsampled (oversampling), but we'll be checking on this as part of the review process. This risks lowering the level of detail capture and increases the risk of moiré, though it's a better solution than line-skipping. There also seemed to be significant rolling shutter, but again these are only first impressions from a camera running non-final firmware.

damn that kind of sucks.. maybe you'll have to switch to DX mode to get sharpest 4K (like on A7R2)? 

but biggest con to me is there seems to be no video AF improvement..

These past 8 months I've used the XT2 for pro video use more then any other camera in my arsenal ( A7S2, C100, 5D3 ). In fact I have sold ALL my other cameras and currently only use the XT2.

The booster grip is of course essential. With a cheap Nikon adapter I'm using all my Nikon FF glass again and am actually getting better results in my opinion then with Fuji glass (albeit manual focus control).

Now I am still in the market for a second cam, which may very well be the D850 as I'm missing the full frame look..

Thanks for your input. Yeah it's quite a shame about the horrible rolling shutter on A6500. totally ruins it for me.

 Color science and white balance is definitely tricky with all these Sony's.

On the A7S I had, found myself always having to adjust RGB values in post to get normal colours back from footage, really annoying process compared to my Canons & XT2 that nail it SOOC.

Now about motion cadence, so you feel the FS5 isn't very cinematic?  does it offer 23.976 / 24p? very odd that there is no shutter angle option either.. that's just plain goofy on a pro video cam of that level..

I'm still interested in the FS5 though as a few are starting to pop up on second hand market and I'm starting to get cold feet about the C200 (lack of midrange codec is super disappointing at that price point and super slow mo seems super soft)

Important question I never hear about, how is the FS5's AF with native Sony lenses?  

On 8/2/2017 at 11:31 AM, Oliver Daniel said:

 

 

The A6500 beats the FS5 raw to ProRes ProRes image in 4k. Not so much in 1080p. 

 

 

would you care to expand on this. I'm a bit shocked by this. is the FS5 4k really that inferior?!

and so in your opinion the 4K raw to Prores via inferno isn't worth the hassle versus the internal XAVC codec?

also how would you compare the 4K image to the A7SII?

New: the D850 LCD will have twice the resolution of the D810

New: slo-mo full HD 120fps video

New: the SD slot will support UHS-II

New: improved LiveView split-screen display

New: improved silent shooting mode

New: improved battery life

New: lighter than the D810

Read more: https://nikonrumors.com/2017/08/01/additional-nikon-d850-specifications.aspx/#ixzz4oXaQLgFn