John Matthews

I’m trying to find a historical element to compare Panasonic to. I’m struggling because regardless of their non-success in the camera market, we’re still talking about an absolutely massive company bigger than many of the other players that is roughly keeping up with technology. I don’t think there are any. With the right investments and people, they’ll find a way.

8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

If I were a new customer, wanting to upgrade from a smartphone - let's forget the used market, and the dumbed down cameras that treat smartphone users like idiots... I would go on Amazon and see a bunch of $1000+ stuff and spend that money on a new iPhone instead.

It's all a bit unfair. Smartphones get to hide behind the idea of it being "just a phone" and "look at its great video and photos" whereas a camera must be excellent at video and photo. The bar is always so low for a phone, but if we forget the "phone" idea and just say it's a camera; then it needs to compete with similar priced cameras. Unfortunately, there's nothing on the market in the sub 300g weight and size range, which is what I think many people want to start with. It makes more sense to have a $250 phone that does most things and a decent $800 light and nimble camera rather than the $1050 phone that only marginally takes better photos than the cheap phone but comes nowhere close to the $800 camera... if that makes sense.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes Panasonic made a stupid mistake with the F8 pancake, they wanted something maximally small and cheap.

Many got that F8 joke of a lens for free. Guess what? MBP won't even take it today because that's how undesirable it is. It's more like a wannabe lens cap. The only lens that does the S9 justice (like I want) is the 45mm Sigma. Why? It's a L-mount, full-frame, relatively fast lens (and rather small). The fact is this: Sony, Canon, and Nikon have all come out with pancakes that are relatively fast (F2.8). Panasonic needs a 28mm f2.8 or a 40mm f/2.8 before I'd consider it at its current price. Remember, this is company that gave us the 14mm f/2.5 and 20mm f/1.7; both were decent lenses. These pancakes would actually make the S9 is a serious alternative and would convince others to buy it, even with its shortcomings.

If it is a video camera, why is there a PASM dial? If it is a video camera, why all the recording limitations? Many people see it as a photo camera without essential features of a photo camera and a video camera without the essential features of a video camera.

Don't get me wrong, I actually will buy it at the right price. If Panasonic or sigma don't come out with a pancake, I might pair it with the Konica 40mm f/1.8 as I think it'll do fine on it.

Putting a cheap, well-designed Sony sensor in a small body with f/2 pancake lenses would be amazing. I would forgive the lack of mechanical shutter and hotshoe in that case.

Still, I’d like version 2 of this camera to have a flip-up, brighter screen and at least 1/500 capable shutter. 

28 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Wow I did not even realize it did not had a flash hotshoe. Flash is so crucial for my style of photography.  I cant understand how they can sell a 1000+ camera without a hotshoe flash..

Yeah, it would need to have a global shutter for real flash photography. However, you could take video lights or reflectors with reasonable results. The fact is there are just so many concessions. Still, as @Andrew Reid said, it's probably a very fun camera. The other problem is that there are so many M43 cameras with all those features (and even smaller and lighter).

40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The fun factor is huge with this trust me.

I can believe that. I've always loved using small cameras. The GM1 was a little too small for me and my hands. The GX800 was just that much bigger and I liked not having an EVF in that I never had to choose. However, I'd prefer a flip-up screen rather than the flip-out style on the S9. I just find them fiddly and cheap-feeling (like one wrong move will break it). Oddly enough, I actually broke my GX800 screen by dropping it. I just can't swallow the price for the S9, but I secretly want one. You're probably going to love it.

My problem with the S9 is the weight. Once you have the grip, you're saving just over 100g over the S5/S5ii. The list of missing features (especially photography related) are numerous. For me, it's a camera to use as-is, once they have a pancake and once the price is more reasonable for what it is. I'd definitely take the S5 over it for the price they sell at, even used.

15 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

New offer just popped up in my socials. $300 off the S9 and a free lens on the Panasonic site. Combined with some other deals this could be a reasonable price to get in for under $1k USD

I think they're changing things up in their marketing (and they should). They have decent products. They have a very high ceiling in terms of production tooling know-how now. The 2 lenses missing for the S9 are a 28mm f2 and 40mm f2 pancakes. Let's hope they get on it.

People don't realise that when you go for small, it's basically going for a new system and you need to have lenses that go with it or the traction won't be there. I think this is the case with the S9. Also, it's lacking so many photography features for the price and weight. Still, it's a great-looking camera IMO.

The worst example of this is the Apple Pencil. With a lithium ion battery the size of a pea, it often dies on people who don't use it for a month, never to be used again. This didn't happen to me, but I plug it in all the time and check it every week. What a pain in the ass!

In France, Panasonic "deals" are way worse than last year. The "too good to pass up" offers aren't really there. Too bad. Maybe they made their quotas for the year and they're letting others take the hit in potential profits.

9 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Amazon.fr is offering the S5D (new/old camera) + the new 18-40mm kit lens for 1129 euros. That's not that bed of a deal for new camera (not used) with a full 3 year warranty. Maybe even better is the same camera with the 28-200mm for 1699 euros here: https://www.digixo.com/appareil-photo-hybrides/panasonic/p398960-panasonic-lumix-s5d-28-200mm-dc-s5dhe-k.html

With the first kit mentioned and if you were to sell the 18-40 immediately to MPB, you'd be paying 844 euros for a brand new S5D. That seems very reasonable, but there might be even better deals. Who knows?

Amazon.fr is offering the S5D (new/old camera) + the new 18-40mm kit lens for 1129 euros. That's not that bed of a deal for new camera (not used) with a full 3 year warranty. Maybe even better is the same camera with the 28-200mm for 1699 euros here: https://www.digixo.com/appareil-photo-hybrides/panasonic/p398960-panasonic-lumix-s5d-28-200mm-dc-s5dhe-k.html

40 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I've already heavily researched this, but could someone tell me is the a Konica Hexanon AR 57mm f/1.2 made in March of 1973 with a serial number of 75088XX-ish would have thorium? Does anyone have a lens with a later serial number they KNOW has thorium either by discoloration or having tested with a Geiger meter?

I'm not worried about it, just curious. I'm having trouble finding precise information on the topic. I find that anything Konica is difficult to find.

Never mind. I finally found one with a serial number 7511105 with significant yellowing according to the seller. That would mean one with a serial number lower would definitely have it too. I'm still not sure when it stopped. I'm fairly sure they made this lens into the 80s and they wouldn't have done it then. It's so easy to blow time on things like this.

I've already heavily researched this, but could someone tell me is the a Konica Hexanon AR 57mm f/1.2 made in March of 1973 with a serial number of 75088XX-ish would have thorium? Does anyone have a lens with a later serial number they KNOW has thorium either by discoloration or having tested with a Geiger meter?

I'm not worried about it, just curious. I'm having trouble finding precise information on the topic. I find that anything Konica is difficult to find.

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

It really is. It's the first kit lens that I'll often use professionally and not even bat an eye at the thought of it. It's not just "good for a kit lens" it's a good lens period. 

For sure. It's unique for its focal range and the fact it's got weather sealing. I'm not sure there's another "kit" lens in any system with those 2 features. I don't care that it's a little big for the S9 because it's perfect for the other bodies. I also think it's a better lens than the new 18-40mm, although I've never tried it for myself. Both are great travel options, especially for outside work.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

If anyone wishes to buy one for a very reasonable price, I have a spare 20-60.

A battery grip also.

About to offload some kit to MPB.

EU only!

The 20-60 is a awesome lens. It's one that really "makes the system". Wide angle at 20mm was VERY difficult to find; now, it's commonplace. This lens basically means you don't have to get a wide angle because the kit lens will do it! I already have one. Sorry.

Just picked up an S5 for 764 Euros to replace my GH2 for live streaming. I'm not sure anyone will notice anything meaningful on the other end, but damn, the image is great even at 1080p. I’ve decided to dedicate it to all my vintage glass. To celebrate, I found an absolute gem—the Pentax 28mm f/3.5 (K version, not the M version). I had that lens before but regrettably sold it (note to self: 'Don’t sell vintage glass for peanuts!'). I used it on the A7RII for about a year—it was great, but I can already tell Panasonic is definitely going to elevate my footage for video.

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

But then I read about the overheating issues, in cases shutting off after 10min of filming. I think a few people here have a XS20. So maybe they can chim in. Our friend and Eoshd contributor has reported in depth about the lacking chroma detail in the red channel. @Attila Bakos

A used Lumix S5 looks more attractive to me, though bigger, but small for what it does, which is great image quality due to its exellent digital pipeline, reliable performance without overheating, 10bit 4k60 apsc, FF open gate, great size and ergo over all.

Ibis on the Fuji has been reported as lacking compared to Panny.

After thinking a lot about it, I do think the S5 (original) is where it's at in terms of value. I'd rather deal with manual focus than tripods and gimbals.

50 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

I get it, but here’s the thing, while Panasonic’s marketing for the S9 does mention the casual shooter, the features they’ve packed into it are clearly aimed at more advanced users. That’s where the confusion comes in. Panasonic seems to be trying to appeal to both casual users and professionals, but the camera’s actual design and capabilities are more aligned with the needs of the pros. It’s a bit of mixed messaging. They’re promoting it broadly, but in reality, the features go far beyond what most casual shooters are looking for.

The launch only added to this confusion by targeting the wrong lenses and reviewers, which didn’t align with casual users. So, while the marketing might say “casual,” the S9’s functionality clearly points to a more advanced audience. And that brings it to another frustration. Panasonic’s split between MFT and L-Mount. Instead of unifying their systems, they’re pushing L-Mount for full-frame, which leaves Micro Four Thirds users feeling a bit sidelined.

It would’ve been smarter to find a way to make L-Mount lenses compatible with MFT bodies via an adapter. Sure, there are technical challenges, like the difference in sensor size and flange distance, but companies like Metabones have shown that it’s possible. If Panasonic had figured out a way to bridge the gap, it would have been much easier for users who are invested in both systems. Instead, we’re left juggling two separate ecosystems, which doesn’t feel necessary when both could benefit from more seamless integration.

The S9 was a debacle from conception to their current marketing of the camera. Many of the people invited to the event were so surprised that they thought the S9 was completely thrown together at the last minute. Many have the theory that another camera that was meant for the event, but something went horribly wrong just before and it was too late to cancel. The result was a shotgun wedding called the S9.

On 10/18/2024 at 7:30 AM, ND64 said:

What exactly Panasonic doing in 4k24p?60p is even worse. Then at 120p it looks 2MP image.

For IQ, the S5ii is all about its 6k FF up to 30fps image. The rest isn't "bad" by any stretch, but there might be better FF cameras out there with full sensor readout. YouTube is NOT the way to look at the images either. In that video, I thought the Nikon looked really bad too. Most people here complain about the S5ii being too sharp and digital, not the contrary. You're absolutely right about the 120fps footage looking like a 2MP image because it actually is a 2MP image.

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

Or just buy an X-S20 instead, which has IBIS and EVF.

Exactly. That's what I was saying. I only mention the S5ii because that's what I have.

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

So you can rig it up with the fan if you need it, but also you can strip it down and go lightweight (maybe you're just going to be a tourist and take a few snaps during your trip). 

That's a good point and I have no experience with that. I only know that YouTube videos showing such are slow and tedious. If we're talking 2 minutes, why not? If we're talking 20-30 minutes, it would be highly annoying and I'd probably just rely on my phone. :(

54 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

The Fujfilm X-M5 is compatible with Fujifilm's Cooling Fan FAN-001

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1708267-REG/fujifilm_16757344_x_h_fan.html

I wonder if that, or a similar third party product, would make it reliable vs overheating. 

180g and 190 euros. Ouch. Add a tripod and gimbal and you have what the S5ii has integrated into its body, minus the FF sensor and EVF. More and more I'm thinking that the X-M5 is a camera you just take it as it is or you upgrade, but don't get accessories because your final kit will twice the size of the camera with those features integrated, notably the S5ii.

On 10/16/2024 at 7:08 AM, PannySVHS said:

The relaunched S5 with full Hdmi would have been all the camera I ever needed for personal and semipro use. Another missed opportunity.

You'd think it would be an easy change, but alas, they had way too many unsold bodies to allow that to happen. I will say the price is better on the older S5 model which I've seen go for 949 euros new. Given the choice between the an S5 and the X-M5 for $800, I might take the S5 on pure technology, but the X-M5 for size.